Ok. Instead of trying to strain my head figuring this out Im sure one of you can help. I do not understand how the Sabres are 22nd. We sell out most games, the people here are hockey crazy, I know jerseys an other team related items sell well so how do we lose money an not rank at least top 15? I am not trying to be smug I just clearly do not understand HRR or I am missing something...

It's a tricky question, because labour laws vary from province to province. And they are of course different in the US.

But to make a sweeping overly-simple general statement, in most places, to obtain union certification you need to demonstrate that at least 50% of the workers want to certify.
- Atomic Wedgie

and then you have to take it to court stating that the league is a monopoly and the players (individually) are not in a fair position to negotiate against a monopoly like the NHL....during that time over 200 guys are in Europe playing

Let's keep this discussion realistic though, let's not get carried away.
- Symba007

I know, I know.... I got carried away....

Ok. Instead of trying to strain my head figuring this out Im sure one of you can help. I do not understand how the Sabres are 22nd. We sell out most games, the people here are hockey crazy, I know jerseys an other team related items sell well so how do we lose money an not rank at least top 15? I am not trying to be smug I just clearly do not understand HRR or I am missing something...
- Orphen22

High expenses, price of tickets not high enough, gold platted parking lot lines, tickets made out of gold, Pegula doesn't (frank) around.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/story/2012/11/23/sp-nhl-cancels-games-all-star-weekend.html?cmp=rss

You missed it.
- Atomic Wedgie

I thought something was up.

Almost 20 years later and still haven't gotten over it...
- MnGump

Look at that hair! It's awesome! Still one of my favorite players.

Ok. Instead of trying to strain my head figuring this out Im sure one of you can help. I do not understand how the Sabres are 22nd. We sell out most games, the people here are hockey crazy, I know jerseys an other team related items sell well so how do we lose money an not rank at least top 15? I am not trying to be smug I just clearly do not understand HRR or I am missing something...
- Orphen22

Paying Kotalik and Morrison to go away.

But they could simply cross the picket line and play.
- Atomic Wedgie

no one is going to spend 100's a night to watch non nhl contracted players play hockey.

The scabs are going to have to come from senior leagues and Junior B leagues.

The arenas will be empty after a handfull of games, unless the owners drop the admission to 10 bucks

What I don't seem to quite grasp is, if Forbes is apparently so full of poop and truly have no idea what the actuals are, why would they even attempt to bother publishing this info?

I'm no publishing guru, but I'm fairly sure that a publication from company as high profile as Forbes would be fairly tight with their fact checking. I could be wrong though. I just don't know what they would have to gain by making it up as they go.
- MnGump

because fans think it's gospel, the closest thing to what the financials actually are. please tell me how you fact check the ledgers of NHL teams?

does it go something like this?

hi, i'm buzz journalist from forbes. can you please let me see your financial records? cuz ya, we're writing an article. and we're forbes.

whatever.

High expenses, price of tickets not high enough, gold platted parking lot lines, tickets made out of gold, Pegula doesn't (frank) around.
- Symba007

High expenses, price of tickets not high enough, gold platted parking lot lines, tickets made out of gold, Pegula doesn't (frank) around.
- Symba007

im on my xbox cause comp crapped out so sorry for terrible grammar/slow responses. So team expenses count against the total profit? Like the electric bills? lol terrible example im sure but you get what im aiming at.

agreed but they had the same problem in bloomington that the jets and nordiques did.
- Fountain-San

Minnesota fans at the time were for whatever reason very apathetic. Even in the years surrounding their run for the Stanley cup attendance was low, profits were minimal. Although Norm Green definitely had alterior motives, in the end it was the fault of the fans and the state of Minnesota. I think everyone just thought it was a bluff. I mean, you can't take hockey out of Minnesota! We're practically in Canada eh!

I don't think anyone really believed they were going anywhere, so no one at any level rallied around them until it was too late. Sort of made Minnie fans think twice when Bud Selig and Carl Pohlad tried contracting the Twins. Wish the Northstars would have had that kind of support...

no one is going to spend 100's a night to watch non nhl contracted players play hockey.

The scabs are going to have to come from senior leagues and Junior B leagues.

The arenas will be empty after a handfull of games, unless the owners drop the admission to 10 bucks
- CaptainK

It's all relative. We pay the prices we do to see the best players in the world. If we want to pay less, we can go watch lesser players in different leagues.

Ok. Instead of trying to strain my head figuring this out Im sure one of you can help. I do not understand how the Sabres are 22nd. We sell out most games, the people here are hockey crazy, I know jerseys an other team related items sell well so how do we lose money an not rank at least top 15? I am not trying to be smug I just clearly do not understand HRR or I am missing something...
- Orphen22

Sabres are 23rd in average ticket prices.

Jersey sales don't contribute to HRR, other than the licensing fee that Reebok paid (unless the jersey is sold by the Sabres in their shop, for which they get the retail markup).

High expenses, price of tickets not high enough, gold platted parking lot lines, tickets made out of gold, Pegula doesn't (frank) around.
- Symba007

I'm not 100% sure, but is it possible that I had read an article talking about Buffalo keeping ticket prices low in order to maintain their revenue sharing?

Minnesota fans at the time were for whatever reason very apathetic. Even in the years surrounding their run for the Stanley cup attendance was low, profits were minimal. Although Norm Green definitely had alterior motives, in the end it was the fault of the fans and the state of Minnesota. I think everyone just thought it was a bluff.

I don't think anyone really believed they were going anywhere, so no one at any level rallied around them until it was too late. Sort of made Minnie fans think twice when Bud Selig and Carl Pohlad tried contracting the Twins. Wish the Northstars would have had that kind of support...
- MnGump

but the building was a problem too wasn't it?

I'm not 100% sure, but is it possible that I had read an article talking about Buffalo keeping ticket prices low in order to maintain their revenue sharing?
- l3ig_l2ecl

You are correct.

Minnesota fans at the time were for whatever reason very apathetic. Even in the years surrounding their run for the Stanley cup attendance was low, profits were minimal. Although Norm Green definitely had alterior motives, in the end it was the fault of the fans and the state of Minnesota. I think everyone just thought it was a bluff. I mean, you can't take hockey out of Minnesota! We're practically in Canada eh!

I don't think anyone really believed they were going anywhere, so no one at any level rallied around them until it was too late. Sort of made Minnie fans think twice when Bud Selig and Carl Pohlad tried contracting the Twins. Wish the Northstars would have had that kind of support...
- MnGump

also they year they went to the cup weren't they a sub 500 regular season team?
i don't remember them ever being a 90+ point team (a good number back then without the extra overtime loss points).

I'm not 100% sure, but is it possible that I had read an article talking about Buffalo keeping ticket prices low in order to maintain their revenue sharing?
- l3ig_l2ecl

There is no way a saint like Pegula would do something so underhanded just to make money

It's all relative. We pay the prices we do to see the best players in the world. If we want to pay less, we can go watch lesser players in different leagues.
- uf1910

But if the top league is offering lesser players, what then? Will people still pay to go watch?

Most hockey fans in PHO, DAL, STL, etc, probably have the slightest clue between a NHLer vs an AHLer. Sure they might know a few superstars, but they wouldn't really know how they affected the game. They would still go watch their team wearing their prefered jersey for an overpriced ticker. Then buy an overprice beer and hotdog. Go back to work the next day and talk about their awesome time they had watching an NHL game which happens to be the most popular league...

Not to mention a team like the Islanders is going to quickly go from the red to the black once they move from Uniondale to Brooklyn you would think.
- latorrem1

Why would anyone think that..

Why would anyone think that..
- SameOld

What looks like a duck, walks like a duck, whether it's in a pond in Canada or Mexico. It's still a (frank)ing duck.....

Sabres are 23rd in average ticket prices.

Jersey sales don't contribute to HRR, other than the licensing fee that Reebok paid (unless the jersey is sold by the Sabres in their shop, for which they get the retail markup).
- Atomic Wedgie

wow Im so lost...so sales of team related gear doesnt add money? We still sell out majority of games though...I really dont understand this crap lmao

Why would anyone think that..
- SameOld

They sold 3 times more corporate boxes in the new rink (something like 30 to 90)

How exactly is Gary Bettman to blame for teams relocating?


I've got a bit of a newsflash for you, Skippy:

To date, Gary Bettman has fought every inch of the way to keep exactly five teams where they are:

Pheonix
Ottawa
Calgary
Edmonton
Vancouver.

Yeah, Bonerbuck.

Vancouver.
- Atomic Wedgie

Go back and read... I said where he chose to relocate those teams.



Child, you are off you're rocker.