BTW, I'll throw this grenade out.

Remember when people said Canadian teams made up 30 - no, 35 - no, 40 - no, half of the league's revenues? According to Forbes, it was never higher than just over 26% (hit during the 2010-11 season).

This year? It's 28.2%, with the Jets bringing in $105 million.

Back out the Jets? It's only 25.1%, or a decline for the first time since 2008-09 and just above the 2007-08 marker of 24.9%.

BTW, I'll throw this grenade out.

Remember when people said Canadian teams made up 30 - no, 35 - no, 40 - no, half of the league's revenues? According to Forbes, it was never higher than just over 26% (hit during the 2010-11 season).

This year? It's 28.2%, with the Jets bringing in $105 million.

Back out the Jets? It's only 25.1%, or a decline for the first time since 2008-09 and just above the 2007-08 marker of 24.9%.

Forbes valuations are tremendously flawed. Cult of Hockey tore 'em apart a few days ago -- specifically targeting the Florida Panthers, a "loser" team with a widely-available auditor report from Broward County.

http://blogs.edmontonjour...ng-teams-that-lose-money/

A lot of hidden financials. This shouldn't really surprise anyone, though.


- Travis Yost

Sorry, Travis, but that report is garbage. Even the blogger admitted after the fact that he had read the wrong report.

The Broward County auditor's report does NOT examine the finances of the Florida Panthers. It merely examines the company that operates the arena, which is under the same umbrella as the Panthers.

Read the actual report.

The blogger doesn't know how to read financial reports. His conclusions are based upon false assumptions.

They put themselves there.
Its their own fault.
- Fakepartofme

i dont disagree.. but they are showing they also have the power and wherewithal to correct those mistakes.

its not about right and wrong.. its about the bottom line.. and the fact is.. you cant have a league without owners.

over 40% of teams in the red

and people wonder why the owners have drawn the line
- Dozzer

Nope. Not a mystery why the owners have drawn the line, the mystery is why the owners and league are blaming the players for poor management and ill-advised expansion decisions.

Only a fool believes the players are the reason why those bold teams are losing money.

Additionally, didn't the players make a lot of concessions during the last lockout? And yet a lot of teams are losing money. Tell me, if the players fold again and give the owners more money, why would anyone expect a different result in a few years? When does it stop? When are the owners and the league held responsible for outrageous contracts, poor management and over-expansion?

Also, Ek, these refreshing ads are quite obnoxious.

dbl post.

I agree with that, and quite honestly have no clue about the lease details. But they just can't get any deepeer. And long term, on the ice they have some good prospects coming in. Ice a good hockey team and the attendance will rise sooner or later. They also need better management, they have been a joke of a franchise since the '90.
- Habsody

Truly is sad that outside of 2001-2002, this team has not been real good since 1993. The Brooklyn move will be the best thing to happen to this team. Bruce Ratner has said that they have sold 99% of all suites and club boxes and according to the Forbes article the Isles operating revenues should rise by about $40Million when they make the move. If they are operating at -$16Million now that $40Mill will do wonders for them.

I suspect this will be a very profitable long-term decision for the Islanders.

Fun to watch the Nets have a lot of early success in a similar spot.
- Travis Yost

Difficult to say without getting a peek at the lease agreement.

Does Wang get to keep any luxury suite money? What about concessions?

The conspiracy theorist in me still believes that this is part of a longer plan by Wang to get the real estate deal he wants in Nassau County.

Not directed at you, Symba - but this is yet another example of people who don't understand the difference between revenue and profit.
- Irish Blues

I keep hearing you make this statement Irish, what exactly are you referring to?
How is it possible that a team of publishers as high profile as the ones at the Forbes publication not know the difference between profit and revenue?

Site an example from that article so I can understand what you're talking about.

Sorry, Travis, but that report is garbage. Even the blogger admitted after the fact that he had read the wrong report.

The Broward County auditor's report does NOT examine the finances of the Florida Panthers. It merely examines the company that operates the arena, which is under the same umbrella as the Panthers.

Read the actual report.

The blogger doesn't know how to read financial reports. His conclusions are based upon false assumptions.
- Atomic Wedgie

bang on wedgie.. people too often mistake the fact that just because the owner is turning a profit in general doesnt mean the team they operate is.

the team is its own business.. and its incorrect to factor in the owners other holdings when determining the value of a franchise.

Truly is sad that outside of 2001-2002, this team has not been real good since 1993. The Brooklyn move will be the best thing to happen to this team. Bruce Ratner has said that they have sold 99% of all suites and club boxes and according to the Forbes article the Isles operating revenues should rise by about $40Million when they make the move. If they are operating at -$16Million now that $40Mill will do wonders for them.
- latorrem1

Do the Islanders get that money?

Woohoo the Leafs are 1st in something finally, Suck it the rest of the NHL.

Don't NHL players know this? How can they even have a job if there is no team to play for? These hockey players are dumber than I thought.

BS... The Leafs receive way more national coverage... Why is that? It's because they have the largest audience. The largest audience usually generates the most revenue/profit. Media companies like Bell Media, Rogers Communications, CBC etc etc etc are interested in making making money... SOOOOOOOOOO, they cater to their largest audience!

Factor in the population of Ontario (nearly 40% of Canada's population), a predominantly Leafs region, along with Toronto being Canada's largest city by far, coupled with population density including the surrounding areas.

Even look at the Leafs' fan presence at away games. No team comes even close to that! Not even Montreal who are a distance 2nd.

Even if Forbes' numbers are off, Toronto's valuation is nearly double that of Montreal's. Did you really think they're that far off?
- As_I_See_It

Did you take the time to count the number of fans wearing a Leafs jersey on each away game? Your arguments on the Ontario and Toronto were right but this one is just silly and pretty weak.

Nope. Not a mystery why the owners have drawn the line, the mystery is why the owners and league are blaming the players for poor management and ill-advised expansion decisions.

Only a fool believes the players are the reason why those bold teams are losing money.

Additionally, didn't the players make a lot of concessions during the last lockout? And yet a lot of teams are losing money. Tell me, if the players fold again and give the owners more money, why would anyone expect a different result in a few years? When does it stop? When are the owners and the league held responsible for outrageous contracts, poor management and over-expansion?

Also, Ek, these refreshing ads are quite obnoxious.
- wolfhounds

once again.. its not about who is at fault.

there is no right and wrong here... the owners are saying player salaries are too high for them to continue operating so they arent going to unless the players concede and give them what they want.

its business.. its cold and calculating, you dont make deals based on "the right thing to do"

the guys that own these teams have calculated the risk reward of the lockout, and it still lies in favour of the reward side for them. once, if ever, it crosses over to the risk column then that will be the time you see the owners begin to concede.

where does that line lie? no one knows save the owners themselves.

Difficult to say without getting a peek at the lease agreement.

Does Wang get to keep any luxury suite money? What about concessions?

The conspiracy theorist in me still believes that this is part of a longer plan by Wang to get the real estate deal he wants in Nassau County.
- Atomic Wedgie

let it go!!!! isles are going to bk for 25 years; no question about it.

Don't NHL players know this? How can they even have a job if there is no team to play for? These hockey players are dumber than I thought.
- leeroy45

Yes, but the players have options.

If the owners continue to insult them by asking them to play for an average of $2.3 million instead of $2.4 million, they can alwys tell the owners to go stuff themselves, and then go play in Switzerland for $100,000, minus insurance and travel costs.

And hey, some teams provide you with a Skoda to drive!

once again.. its not about who is at fault.

.
- Dozzer

Sure it's about fault. When the Owners want the players to foot the bill for the problems with the League financially.

let it go!!!! isles are going to bk for 25 years; no question about it.
- LetsGoIsles

You're working for them, aren't you?

I'm wearing my tinfoil hat, so don't bother trying to control my brain waves.

- glove_was_stuck

http://www.csnne.com/hock...-responsib?blockID=807091

Sure it's about fault. When the Owners want the players to foot the bill for the problems with the League financially.
- MJL

look at it this way

i'm the owner and i say i must have this or no hockey

so long as i hold my ground there is nothing the union can do

i dont have to be right.

and as for decertification... that would be the dumbest move the union could try and pull... 2/5ths of the league would probably fold leaving 120-140 guys out of work entirely.

Did you take the time to count the number of fans wearing a Leafs jersey on each away game? Your arguments on the Ontario and Toronto were right but this one is just silly and pretty weak.
- Habsody

I think we've both watched enough hockey games in our lives (I certainly have) to know that I'm right on this point as well. Furthermore, my points about Ontario and Toronto that you've agreed with support my "away game presence" statement.

It's pretty safe to say that the largest fan base will have the largest "away game presence," wouldn't you agree?

Sorry, in this regard Montreal is 2nd.

Sure it's about fault. When the Owners want the players to foot the bill for the problems with the League financially.
- MJL

bah no one is forcing these players to play in the nhl either.

look at it this way

i'm the owner and i say i must have this or no hockey

so long as i hold my ground there is nothing the union can do

i dont have to be right.

and as for decertification... that would be the dumbest move the union could try and pull... 2/5ths of the league would probably fold leaving 120-140 guys out of work entirely.
- Dozzer

Not to mention at least another full year of no hockey...

Vancouver at #7 is impressive since they've never won anything.