Let me ask you another question:

200 NHL players have gone overseas to play, taking away 200 jobs from other hockey players.

The vast majority of players are playing for peanuts - their salaries are really just enough to cover their insurance and travel costs.

When I've pointed out before that I find it incongruous that a player could feel insulted that they are being asked to shave a couple points off of a multi-million dollar salary, but is happy to play in the 2nd division of Germany for less than $100,000 a year, you and others have always maintained that they are doing it to stay in shape for when the NHL season begins.

So here's my question: if the full season is cancelled in mid-January, should these players come home? Or is it OK for them to finish out the season in lesser leagues in Europe?
- Atomic Wedgie

First of all, I have always mantained that they are doing it stay in shape? You're incorrect there. They're doing it to make money. It's perfectly fine for them to continue to finish out the Season in Europe if the NHL Season is cancelled.

His mistake was clearly in feeling that he needed to give a reason why Bettman is evil. Isn't that just accepted as fact... Bettman is evil, Bettman won't negotiate, Bettman is taking two legs and an arm from the players, Bettman has destroyed the league by trying to keep teams in Phoenix et al. Bettman hates Canada, Bettman rigged the Crosby draft, Bettman won't even give a guy a reach around...
- Aetherial

I must admit, I was having a very hard time debating Mr. Boonerbuck.

His arguments made absolutely no sense whatsoever, but he was really good at adding animated emoticons at the end of his posts.

I mean really, how can you argue with this:

Your an idiot! 3 X 3 = 7!

First of all, I have always mantained that they are doing it stay in shape? You're incorrect there. They're doing it to make money. It's perfectly fine for them to continue to finish out the Season in Europe if the NHL Season is cancelled.
- MJL

So being asked to play for $2.4 million is an insult, but being paid $100,000 isn't insulting?

Well there was an article posted yesterday that said that the Owners saved 3.5B in players costs from the last CBA. And seeing how the players made out in the long run. I seems as though both sides did okay in that CBA.
Secondly, there is the potential for serious damage to be inflicted due to this lockout. Loss of Revenue, loss of potential sponsors, etc, To only look at what will happen this Season is shortsighted.
- MJL

I didn't say it was impossible for both sides to come out on top, just that it's rare. If both sides are amicable it's very possible, however we haven't exactly seen that yet. Besides, didn't the PA claim they got shafted in the last CBA? Evidently they did not.

Here we go..... Hey look its the Nazi guy bc of some numbers
- Flyers_1488

I still have no idea what the heck he is talking about, but I'm too scared to google it up.

Here we go..... Hey look its the Nazi guy bc of some numbers
- Flyers_1488

sprechen sie deutsch?

He might not be aware of the etiquitte, but that really is no excuse for a lapse in judgement like that.
- Aetherial

No excuse whatsoever! He was probably a high school loser and this is how he gets his revenge.

Just like every offer the NHL has made was guaranteed not be accepted by the players. Two way street. It's called a negotiation. The offer is what the moderates wanted to offer. Not what Fehr wanted to offer according to reports.
- MJL

Exactly. He puts out an offer to satisfy the moderates, while being sure to include a small provision or two that the league can't agree to.

It makes it look to the players like they're giving thier best offer. While further stonewalling the league, because it doesn't matter what he offers. If they can't accept it then it doesn't change anything.

The sad part of it is that the group mentality that most of the players have whole-heartedly bought into, prevents them from seeing what is really going on.

That offer accomplished nothing but getting everyone more on the same page. Fehr's page!

Product is what brings money to any business. Without the good product on ice (the players), there is no business for owners to run.

Players will always find work in numerous Euro leagues (some of them at comparable pay).
- Nerko77

Very very few will find comparable pay. The players also will not find the amenities that the NHL provides for them during the season. Take a look at what the players have to put up with in the KHL. The only league offering close to NHL money.

http://www.thestar.com/sp...avel-all-part-of-the-game

4th liners in the NHL make more than 1st liners in every league except the KHL. There's no question that the players can make a living in europe playing hockey. Will they be millionaires? For 95 percent of the players the answer is NO. Will they have to put up with travel and arena conditions that pale in comparison to what they are used to in the NHL? ABSOLUTELY.

The reality is, even in Europe the support isn't there for the salaries and lifestyle that the NHL players are used to.

Speaking of Product (players), has anyone watched Ovechkin, Malkin, or Kovalchuk play in the KHL? How about Giroux or any of the players playing in the lesser european leagues? No? Why not? If this particular group of players was so important that the fans would watch the players no matter where they play, then why aren't we doing it?

We aren't doing it because nobody in the US gives a damn what Malkin does in Russia. We aren't going to watch Claude Giroux play on a German team.

If 90+ percent of the NHLPA would rather play for 1/10th of their current salaries in worse working conditions (and in the case of US/CAN players foreign countries) rather than give the owners an inch, they deserve what they get.

Some excerpts from the KHL article :

Other KHL clubs demand players stay pre-game nights in basas, remote bases in the middle of nowhere with small beds with thin mattresses, poor heating and worse food. A bad game can mean a second night’s stay.

A handful of teams regularly fall behind in paying their players, and even when they do pay, some clubs insist on paying in cash.

“This is not a place you want to be carrying bags of money around,” says one current KHL player. “And it’s not easy to wire money overseas back to Canada.”

Several North Americans said they keep stacks of currency in paper bags in their freezers. Meadow Lake, Saskatchewan’s Jon Mirasty, who plays for Chekhov, said he had been paid only twice since arriving in Russia in August.

There are problems players face when teams decide they’re no longer needed.

“One guy I know, playing for the KHL team in Kazan, was arrested after the team had (marijuana) planted on him,” says Simpson, who now lives in Chicago. “They took him to jail, wanted to sweat him out, pressure him to agree to go back to Canada without getting paid.”

The same thing happened to John Grahame, a Canadian goalie who played during the 2008-09 season for the KHL team in Omsk, a city in Siberia.

“He was arrested by police for going to a dance club because the team didn’t want to keep paying him,” Simpson said.

Simpson himself was on the verge of accepting a coaching job with the New York Islanders but a former teammate urged him to keep playing in Russia.

“I didn’t do it for the money, I did it for the experience,” Simpson said. “I enjoyed it, but I remember at one point towards the end of my first season with Chekhov going to the rink and they handed me some papers in Russian to sign.”

The team told Simpson the documents were a formality.

“I had them translated and it turned out the paper was an agreement saying the team didn’t have to pay me my last two cheques,” he said. “I didn’t sign it

I hope the players are reading this week's issue of the Hockey News:

http://thehockeynews.com/...er-return-to-the-NHL.html

I hope the players are reading this week's issue of the Hockey News:

http://thehockeynews.com/...er-return-to-the-NHL.html
- Atomic Wedgie

It's OK, they are ready to sacrifice themselves for the good of the game and for the next generation of players.....as long as they get their money. Some teams are hurting financially, doesn't matter...

sprechen sie deutsch?
- glove_was_stuck

Ja 3 Jahre in Hochschule und Arbeit für eine Firma von Deutschland Gedauert... Noch kein Nazi tho

So being asked to play for $2.4 million is an insult, but being paid $100,000 isn't insulting?
- Atomic Wedgie

Nothing to do with it. Eliminating a lot of details of why the players are unhappy with the League's offers there aren't you?

Exactly. He puts out an offer to satisfy the moderates, while being sure to include a small provision or two that the league can't agree to.

It makes it look to the players like they're giving thier best offer. While further stonewalling the league, because it doesn't matter what he offers. If they can't accept it then it doesn't change anything.

The sad part of it is that the group mentality that most of the players have whole-heartedly bought into, prevents them from seeing what is really going on.

That offer accomplished nothing but getting everyone more on the same page. Fehr's page!
- steveb12344

The point your apparently not getting is that is was the player's offer, not Fehr's offer according to reports.

Some excerpts from the KHL article :

Other KHL clubs demand players stay pre-game nights in basas, remote bases in the middle of nowhere with small beds with thin mattresses, poor heating and worse food. A bad game can mean a second night’s stay.

A handful of teams regularly fall behind in paying their players, and even when they do pay, some clubs insist on paying in cash.

“This is not a place you want to be carrying bags of money around,” says one current KHL player. “And it’s not easy to wire money overseas back to Canada.”

Several North Americans said they keep stacks of currency in paper bags in their freezers. Meadow Lake, Saskatchewan’s Jon Mirasty, who plays for Chekhov, said he had been paid only twice since arriving in Russia in August.

There are problems players face when teams decide they’re no longer needed.

“One guy I know, playing for the KHL team in Kazan, was arrested after the team had (marijuana) planted on him,” says Simpson, who now lives in Chicago. “They took him to jail, wanted to sweat him out, pressure him to agree to go back to Canada without getting paid.”

The same thing happened to John Grahame, a Canadian goalie who played during the 2008-09 season for the KHL team in Omsk, a city in Siberia.

“He was arrested by police for going to a dance club because the team didn’t want to keep paying him,” Simpson said.

Simpson himself was on the verge of accepting a coaching job with the New York Islanders but a former teammate urged him to keep playing in Russia.

“I didn’t do it for the money, I did it for the experience,” Simpson said. “I enjoyed it, but I remember at one point towards the end of my first season with Chekhov going to the rink and they handed me some papers in Russian to sign.”

The team told Simpson the documents were a formality.

“I had them translated and it turned out the paper was an agreement saying the team didn’t have to pay me my last two cheques,” he said. “I didn’t sign it
- Flyers_01

In soviet Russia money owns you!

But really if it's true then the khl can be a scary place ,I remember reading a khl player died in an alley way because he owed money to some sketchy people

I didn't say it was impossible for both sides to come out on top, just that it's rare. If both sides are amicable it's very possible, however we haven't exactly seen that yet. Besides, didn't the PA claim they got shafted in the last CBA? Evidently they did not.
- MnGump

The PA claims that they took a salary rollback and accepted a salary Cap in the last CBA. And that they want to keep the contract concessions they gained in that CBA.

Nothing to do with it. Eliminating a lot of details of why the players are unhappy with the League's offers there aren't you?
- MJL

Everything to do with it.

The PA claims that they took a salary rollback and accepted a salary Cap in the last CBA. And that they want to keep the contract concessions they gained in that CBA.
- MJL

and the way things are going, they will also keep the 24% rollback in the next CBA.

Nothing to do with it. Eliminating a lot of details of why the players are unhappy with the League's offers there aren't you?
- MJL

If the players were willing to play for $100,000 each, I'm sure the owners would would not fight them on contracting issues. The cap issues wouldn't be a problem either at that pay rate. I think we've solved it. Get the players to play over here for what they get paid over there and we can start the season next week.

I must admit, I was having a very hard time debating Mr. Boonerbuck.

His arguments made absolutely no sense whatsoever, but he was really good at adding animated emoticons at the end of his posts.

I mean really, how can you argue with this:

Your an idiot! 3 X 3 = 7!
- Atomic Wedgie

Me and my cat agree: Perfect (frank)ing logic.

Ja 3 Jahre in Hochschule und Arbeit für eine Firma von Deutschland Gedauert... Noch kein Nazi tho
- Flyers_1488

Das ist schade. Die Nazis hatten große Stücke von Flair!

Product is what brings money to any business. Without the good product on ice (the players), there is no business for owners to run.

Players will always find work in numerous Euro leagues (some of them at comparable pay).
- Nerko77

I think you've got this a bit backwards, the product is not what runs a business, the person with enough money and resources to start and operate that business is what makes a business possible, that and a market for the product being sold, obviously a good product is beneficial but not all businesses sell A-1 top shelf merchandise.

In the case of the NHL, without billionaire owners there can be no millionaire players. There will always be a business for owners to run provided there is a market for the product, it may not be as good or resemble the best product but if it makes money it will be there
and there will always be players willing to play.

Very very few will find comparable pay. The players also will not find the amenities that the NHL provides for them during the season. Take a look at what the players have to put up with in the KHL. The only league offering close to NHL money.

http://www.thestar.com/sp...avel-all-part-of-the-game

4th liners in the NHL make more than 1st liners in every league except the KHL. There's no question that the players can make a living in europe playing hockey. Will they be millionaires? For 95 percent of the players the answer is NO. Will they have to put up with travel and arena conditions that pale in comparison to what they are used to in the NHL? ABSOLUTELY.

The reality is, even in Europe the support isn't there for the salaries and lifestyle that the NHL players are used to.

Speaking of Product (players), has anyone watched Ovechkin, Malkin, or Kovalchuk play in the KHL? How about Giroux or any of the players playing in the lesser european leagues? No? Why not? If this particular group of players was so important that the fans would watch the players no matter where they play, then why aren't we doing it?

We aren't doing it because nobody in the US gives a damn what Malkin does in Russia. We aren't going to watch Claude Giroux play on a German team.

If 90+ percent of the NHLPA would rather play for 1/10th of their current salaries in worse working conditions (and in the case of US/CAN players foreign countries) rather than give the owners an inch, they deserve what they get.
- Flyers_01

HAHAHAHA Guaranteed contracts in the KHL LOL

“One guy I know, playing for the KHL team in Kazan, was arrested after the team had (marijuana) planted on him,” says Simpson, who now lives in Chicago. “They took him to jail, wanted to sweat him out, pressure him to agree to go back to Canada without getting paid.”

The point your apparently not getting is that is was the player's offer, not Fehr's offer according to reports.
- MJL

The point you're not getting is that he might as well of handed them a picture of his white naked ass photocopied on a napkin.

The offer could not and would not be accepted. He knew this, but he still used the leagues rejection of it as a rallying cry to get the moderates angry and more in line with the rest.

It was just another way for him to further manipulate the group into being right where he wants them to be.

You should give this one up because your point is just another example of exactly what i'm talking about.