1488
- glove_was_stuck

1488
- glove_was_stuck

had a feeling it was still lurking around here... Once infested with 1488, there's no eliminating it.

by the way, my tax burden is aching this morning...

had a feeling it was still lurking around here... Once infested with 1488, there's no eliminating it.

by the way, my tax burden is aching this morning...
- MnGump

ha ha ha! Sorry, I couldn't stop myself.

Yes, and most owners have been doing this crap for 40+ years. They're not going to allow some 25yo's to dictate how they run their businesses.
- l3ig_l2ecl

Product is what brings money to any business. Without the good product on ice (the players), there is no business for owners to run.

Players will always find work in numerous Euro leagues (some of them at comparable pay).

No 143?

How is it "devastating" to the Leafs?

They are are largely owned by two giant media conglomerates, who will still post profits if there are no games played this year.

Where, exactly, is the devastation?
- Atomic Wedgie

When discussing the article that was posted on Florida, didn't you make the argument that the NHL team needed to be separated from the parent Company? Regardless, the point I made was that it was going to affect both sides. Which is the players and the League as a whole. Not the Leafs specifically. But I also think a lost Season for a team that routinely takes in 100M a year, is pretty significant losses.

Even Ted Lindsay, the guy that pioneered the NHLPA thinks the players should make a deal, or at least vote on it.

http://espn.go.com/nhl/st...y-bettman-players-lockout

Even Ted Lindsay, the guy that pioneered the NHLPA thinks the players should make a deal, or at least vote on it.

http://espn.go.com/nhl/st...y-bettman-players-lockout
- steveb12344

Lynch him!

Figuratively speaking, you're right there is no winner, however they may vary only slightly to a degree, but there's always a winner and a loser if you're speaking in the literal sense. Rarely does a contract dispute of any kind end with a win/win scenario. Rarely do owners/companies fail to come out on top. Although no one wants to lose money, categorizing the effects to both sides as "devastating" is really only true for the players side of the equation as their losses will never be recouped. Even though many teams are losing money due to the lockout, many of them are losing far less to this point than they would have with no canceled games.
- MnGump

Well there was an article posted yesterday that said that the Owners saved 3.5B in players costs from the last CBA. And seeing how the players made out in the long run. I seems as though both sides did okay in that CBA.
Secondly, there is the potential for serious damage to be inflicted due to this lockout. Loss of Revenue, loss of potential sponsors, etc, To only look at what will happen this Season is shortsighted.

Even Ted Lindsay, the guy that pioneered the NHLPA thinks the players should make a deal, or at least vote on it.

http://espn.go.com/nhl/st...y-bettman-players-lockout
- steveb12344

I hope Chuck Norris approved that avatar or else you're (frank)ed

I hope Chuck Norris approved that avatar or else you're (frank)ed
- glove_was_stuck

He gave it the thumbs up.

I love how you use lines like this to try to make a point, even though you absolutely know it's not true.

You are way too much of a Fehr worshipper to not know better.

While the players think they are in charge, we know that Fehr can shape thier views and manipulate them into whatever he needs them to be.

That is the genius of Fehr. It is his play, and the players are just his puppets on a string. Another tool in his toolbox.

It is really impressive how he can stonewall the owners, play victim in the media, and get the players ripping mad all at the same time.

Fehr is so good at using group mentality, and exploiting the players competitive nature, that they really have no chance, and it is not evn close.

The players will be ready to deal when Fehr's strategy says they will, and for you to suggest different would be an outrght lie, and you know it.
- steveb12344

And that completely ignores the reports that the moderates in the players group pushed Fehr and the hardline players into making the last offer the players did, against the advice of Fehr. So your point is obviously not the case. Fehr works for the players. He is bound to their wishes. He certainly has influence over them. But he does not have complete authority.

When discussing the article that was posted on Florida, didn't you make the argument that the NHL team needed to be separated from the parent Company?

- MJL

Oh, Lord, you have so missed the point.

Regardless, the point I made was that it was going to affect both sides. Which is the players and the League as a whole. Not the Leafs specifically. But I also think a lost Season for a team that routinely takes in 100M a year, is pretty significant losses.
- MJL

So...not devastating, right?

Who do you think it is going to affect more: MLSEL or Mike Komisarek?

Oh, Lord, you have so missed the point.

So...not devastating, right?

Who do you think it is going to affect more: MLSEL or Mike Komisarek?
- Atomic Wedgie

No, the real question as it pertains to the point I've made is what affect it has on the players as a whole, or the NHL as a whole.

Have you met my good friend Boonerbuck?

Apparently Bettman is evil, because he didn't force a team to move to Seattle.
- Atomic Wedgie

His mistake was clearly in feeling that he needed to give a reason why Bettman is evil. Isn't that just accepted as fact... Bettman is evil, Bettman won't negotiate, Bettman is taking two legs and an arm from the players, Bettman has destroyed the league by trying to keep teams in Phoenix et al. Bettman hates Canada, Bettman rigged the Crosby draft, Bettman won't even give a guy a reach around...

And that completely ignores the reports that the moderates in the players group pushed Fehr and the hardline players into making the last offer the players did, against the advice of Fehr. So your point is obviously not the case. Fehr works for the players. He is bound to their wishes. He certainly has influence over them. But he does not have complete authority.
- MJL

You mean the offer he made that was guaranteed not to be accepted by the owners. Serving the purpose of manipulating the moderates so that now even they are becoming angry, and more in line with the rest.

It's like i said. Fehr has his methods to shape his constituants any way he sees fit. This was just another perfect example of it.

He gave it the thumbs up.
- steveb12344

Thats good. Have you watched Walker Texas Ranger? He really (frank)s people up!

I love how you use lines like this to try to make a point, even though you absolutely know it's not true.

You are way too much of a Fehr worshipper to not know better.

While the players think they are in charge, we know that Fehr can shape thier views and manipulate them into whatever he needs them to be.

That is the genius of Fehr. It is his play, and the players are just his puppets on a string. Another tool in his toolbox.

It is really impressive how he can stonewall the owners, play victim in the media, and get the players ripping mad all at the same time.

Fehr is so good at using group mentality, and exploiting the players competitive nature, that they really have no chance, and it is not evn close.

The players will be ready to deal when Fehr's strategy says they will, and for you to suggest different would be an outrght lie, and you know it.
- steveb12344

It's not a lie, if you believe it.

He does.

His mistake was clearly in feeling that he needed to give a reason why Bettman is evil. Isn't that just accepted as fact... Bettman is evil, Bettman won't negotiate, Bettman is taking two legs and an arm from the players, Bettman has destroyed the league by trying to keep teams in Phoenix et al. Bettman hates Canada, Bettman rigged the Crosby draft, Bettman won't even give a guy a reach around...
- Aetherial

And that makes him a total bumhole

You mean the offer he made that was guaranteed not to be accepted by the owners. Serving the purpose of manipulating the moderates so that now even they are becoming angry, and more in line with the rest.

It's like i said. Fehr has his methods to shape his constituants any way he sees fit. This was just another perfect example of it.
- steveb12344

Just like every offer the NHL has made was guaranteed not be accepted by the players. Two way street. It's called a negotiation. The offer is what the moderates wanted to offer. Not what Fehr wanted to offer according to reports.

Thats good. Have you watched Walker Texas Ranger? He really (frank)s people up!
- glove_was_stuck

Actually i prefer Mcquade Texas Ranger... Still one of my all time favorite flicks.

And that completely ignores the reports that the moderates in the players group pushed Fehr and the hardline players into making the last offer the players did, against the advice of Fehr. So your point is obviously not the case. Fehr works for the players. He is bound to their wishes. He certainly has influence over them. But he does not have complete authority.
- MJL

Yeah, and we can only assume that if Fehr got his way... things would be MUCH better right

No, the real question as it pertains to the point I've made is what affect it has on the players as a whole, or the NHL as a whole.
- MJL

Let me ask you another question:

200 NHL players have gone overseas to play, taking away 200 jobs from other hockey players.

The vast majority of players are playing for peanuts - their salaries are really just enough to cover their insurance and travel costs.

When I've pointed out before that I find it incongruous that a player could feel insulted that they are being asked to shave a couple points off of a multi-million dollar salary, but is happy to play in the 2nd division of Germany for less than $100,000 a year, you and others have always maintained that they are doing it to stay in shape for when the NHL season begins.

So here's my question: if the full season is cancelled in mid-January, should these players come home? Or is it OK for them to finish out the season in lesser leagues in Europe?

And that makes him a total bumhole
- glove_was_stuck

He might not be aware of the etiquitte, but that really is no excuse for a lapse in judgement like that.

1488
- glove_was_stuck

Here we go..... Hey look its the Nazi guy bc of some numbers