I think for a lot of fans, once Hockey starts, they'll realize how much they actually did miss the NHL. There's a lot of hurt feelings and emotions right now. As there should be. But I think once play starts, if it actually does. Those emotions will be replaced with more positive ones.
- MJL

I readily admit, once the games start, I will be watching them. Be it won't be live in front of my naked steaming eyes, rather it will be only through a TV screen.

Everyone with even a slight interest in hockey should read that last paragraph.....

I love watching Flyers hockey and all that, but to put it succinctly this lockout reminded me that watching hockey is a want, not a need. It's a lesson I won't soon forget.
- BulliesPhan87

Great point...i have realized that a couple of years ago...
I will still watch it from time to time but the true investment is now gone.

I'm so hyped for Shayne Gostisbehere

I readily admit, once the games start, I will be watching them. Be it won't be live in front of my naked steaming eyes, rather it will be only through a TV screen.
- Jsaquella

I think a lot of fans are going to do what you alluded to. They'll watch, but they won't spend the money to go to the games or on merchandise. At least for a while. I think a message needs to be sent.

Great point...i have realized that a couple of years ago...
I will still watch it from time to time but the true investment is now gone.
- phi1671

I'll still be invested, as I have been. But like Jsaq, I'll be leaning on the TV exclusively, and I won't be so loathe to miss some games and catch the highlights/Meltzing. As it turns out, there's a lot going on in life.

The silence following this post is telling.
- BulliesPhan87

Not really.

Last year before the lockout:

Top 10 Salaries
Red Wings (playoffs)
Rangers (missed)
Stars (playoffs)
Flyers (playoffs)
Avalanche (playoffs)
Leafs (playoffs)
Blues (playoffs)
Kings (missed)
Ducks (missed)
Capitals (missed)

(6 out of 10 -- outlier year)

Bottom 10 Salaries
Lightning (playoffs - Cup)
Jackets (missed)
Oilers (missed)
Sabres (missed)
Blackhawks (missed)
Jets (missed)
Wild (missed)
Panthers (missed)
Penguins (missed)
Predators (playoffs)

2 team in the bottom 10.

Year before that:

Top 10
Rangers (missed)
Stars (playoffs)
Blues (playoffs)
Red Wings (playoffs)
Flyers (playoffs)
Leafs (playoffs)
Avalanche (playoffs)
Devils (playoffs)
Capitals (playoffs)
Ducks (playoffs)

(9 out of 10)

Bottom 10

Flames (missed)
Lightning (playoffs)
Sabres (missed)
Oilers (playoffs)
Jackets (missed)
Penguins (missed)
Predators (missed)
Jets (missed)
Panthers (missed)
Wild (playoffs)

(3 out of 10)

If one had the time, they could draw up all this data it's out there. In the two years preceding the last lockout, 25% of the bottom 10 spenders made the playoffs in a league where 53.3% of the league makes the playoffs. On the other side, 75% of the top 10 spenders made the playoffs in that sample. That is the situation the league was facing prior to the last lockout. After the lockout the top 10 continue to do well, but the spread has been drawn down some and the difference between the 1st and 15th and 15th and 30th has drawn down noticeably.

No matter how much Bill wants to spin the playoff numbers, this was not a balanced system. It was MLB (which is atrocious due to the limited playoff pool, and was especially so back then) with a 16 team playoff system.

Thanksgiving has come and gone. There is no agreement, nor is there any real traction.

I'm officially out. Frank them.

The NHL/Flyers (Devils and Rangers) will not get any money from me for the 2012/2013 season should it happen. If the season is cancelled, the NHL/FLyers (Devils and Rangers) will not get any money from me for the duration of the next season.

Frank them all.

I cannot wait for the next NHL Fan Survey to hit my inbox.

The internet ate it? That's the weakest excuse I've ever heard. And I only edited to prevent page stretching. Don't flatter yourself, precious.
- BulliesPhan87

The weakest excuse you've ever heard? I wrote a long response dealing with both the pre- and post-lockout situation, and addressing the flawed nature of Bill's argument.

Bill is essentially arguing that teams making the playoffs once in seven years is indicative of a healthy league. That's the equivalent of teams making the playoffs once, maybe twice a DECADE in real terms. This in a league where more than half the teams make the playoffs. The reality is rather more complicated than simply achieving 53.3%, however, due to the nature of the business and the disparity between various markets.

The crux of the matter is that Bill has publicly stated that he doesn't like writing about the lockout, and that's usually indicative of a disinterest in thinking about the lockout. This leads to him making a superficial quantitative argument, which entirely ignores the central tenet of what is being discussed relative to the CBA. The CBA is about money, and money's influence on what takes place on the ice... he's divorced that aspect entirely from his argument.

There's strong correlation between team spending and where teams finish. That, however, is a long and involved argument that relies on support from a variety of sources.

Congrats on snipping posts, though.

The weakest excuse you've ever heard? I wrote a long response dealing with both the pre- and post-lockout situation, and addressing the flawed nature of Bill's argument.

(snip)

There's strong correlation between team spending and where teams finish. That, however, is a long and involved argument that relies on support from a variety of sources.

Congrats on snipping posts, though.
- gollum

Thank you, it's an invaluable skill. I'm still leaving this debate to you two, though. You won't find meaningful victory in the peanut gallery.

Never did I think we would be sitting here, the week after Thanksgiving in a lockout. How could they do this after the fans came back in record numbers and the game was gaining relevance?

I haven't bought a ticket for an NHL game in a couple seasons. The cost of the ticket, the cost of the gas, and the cost of parking are enough of a turnoff for me to keep me nice and happy in the comfort of my own living room.

I hope the fans don't come back. It would be justice to watch the game on TV and see about 95% of the seats empty. It'll never happen though.

Never did I think we would be sitting here, the week after Thanksgiving in a lockout. How could they do this after the fans came back in record numbers and the game was gaining relevance?

I haven't bought a ticket for an NHL game in a couple seasons. The cost of the ticket, the cost of the gas, and the cost of parking are enough of a turnoff for me to keep me nice and happy in the comfort of my own living room.

I hope the fans don't come back. It would be justice to watch the game on TV and see about 95% of the seats empty. It'll never happen though.
- hockeylover

The sad thing is that it's happening because fans came back in record numbers. There's no risk in a lockout, it seems.

I don't want to see seats 95% empty, as I want to see the sport grow. But at the same time, I want to see a lesson learned after this lockout. I suppose these two feelings don't jive with each other, but I have them nonetheless.

The sad thing is that it's happening because fans came back in record numbers. There's no risk in a lockout, it seems.

I don't want to see seats 95% empty, as I want to see the sport grow. But at the same time, I want to see a lesson learned after this lockout. I suppose these two feelings don't jive with each other, but I have them nonetheless.
- BulliesPhan87

I think MJL summed it up correctly about fans emotions running high but coming back after it's all said and done. As angry as I am once the puck is dropped, hopefully sooner rather than later I'll be back to watching them.

The internet ate it? That's the weakest excuse I've ever heard. And I only edited to prevent page stretching. Don't flatter yourself, precious.
- BulliesPhan87

My dog ate it

Pretty Sure Bill wont back down from a chat about this

I think MJL summed it up correctly about fans emotions running high but coming back after it's all said and done. As angry as I am once the puck is dropped, hopefully sooner rather than later I'll be back to watching them.


- hockeylover

Amen, sir. Operation Hat Trick was a nice hold-me-over through these proceedings, but also a harsh reminder of what we're all missing.

HEY NHL AND NHLPA

The NBA( ) called to say thanks!

GET A DEAL DONE YOU SISSIES...AND PLEASE STOP PUTTING CRYSBY OUT THERE TO CRY.

My dog ate it

Pretty Sure Bill wont back down from a chat about this
- Flyers_1488

Were I him, I'd be more inclined to continue the conversation if not for the linguistic chest-puffing with phrases such as 'superficial quantitative argument', 'spin the numbers', and references to 'long and involved argument that relies on support from a variety of sources' he can't be bothered to provide. I mean, the snark works when you're just a bystander like yours truly, but it doesn't make for compelling debate.

You'd think if preciousss were confident enough in his point, he wouldn't feel the need to color it with pejorative language.

The sad thing is that it's happening because fans came back in record numbers. There's no risk in a lockout, it seems.

I don't want to see seats 95% empty, as I want to see the sport grow. But at the same time, I want to see a lesson learned after this lockout. I suppose these two feelings don't jive with each other, but I have them nonetheless.
- BulliesPhan87

I think in places (Phoenix, Tampa, Panthers, Devils) its going to be hard to rebuild those fanbases....might as well take those clubs out to the woodshed after this. In place like philly, NY , TOR,BOS wont skip a beat. It will be a sellout every night.

Not really.


- gollum

Gollum, thank you for reposting. The original post was showing up just as a quote of Bill, even when I looked in edit mode, so I had deleted it.

Everyone, just because we are all frustrated with the lockout does not mean that the usual rules don't apply. Treat each other with respect, please.

Were I him, I'd be more inclined to continue the conversation if not for the linguistic chest-puffing with phrases such as 'superficial quantitative argument', 'spin the numbers', and references to 'long and involved argument that relies on support from a variety of sources' he can't be bothered to provide. I mean, the snark works when you're just a bystander like yours truly, but it doesn't make for compelling debate.

You'd think if preciousss were confident enough in his point, he wouldn't feel the need to color it with pejorative language.
- BulliesPhan87

Good Call

I'll still be invested, as I have been. But like Jsaq, I'll be leaning on the TV exclusively, and I won't be so loathe to miss some games and catch the highlights/Meltzing. As it turns out, there's a lot going on in life.
- BulliesPhan87

My spending hasn't changed. I don't buy merchandise for any professional sports team. I haven't in the past and I won't in the future. I think I've been to maybe five games, in my life, that I've paid for. I love hockey. I've played it and watched it my whole life. I'll watch it when it comes back, but they're not getting my money. It's obscene, to me, what players and owners make from professional sports and I choose not to play into it.

- stveshdy

Beautiful

Beautiful
- BulliesPhan87

Just cancel the season already.

Just cancel the season already.
- stveshdy

No Doubt