Which makes the players' stance all the more sad.

Why are you losing income?

Sign the damn contract. The owners will end up screwing themselves no matter what.
- Atomic Wedgie

Most of the top guys have long term deals, they are the ones driving the boat.

It only took you 45 minutes to move from "Do you really think for a second I am going to start debating the specifics of the offer with you? " to " I would love to hear you explain this"

I wish the CBA negotiations would move that fast.

It's very simple, in the offer made today, the players in year 4 get to about 50.3%. It's a soft landing towards 50/50. I think in order to get a deal, the landing is going to have to be a little less soft. I think there is too much money in the first few years of the players Make Whole offer? But what it does, is it give an indisputable number to the differences between both sides.
That is not the only reason why today was significant. But it is one of them.
- MJL

Yeah but this was too obvious to pass up.

Soooo

What about your previous argument that the players had already made a serious concession already going to 50/50...

If that was true a few days ago... then what happened today that was so significant.

Yeah but this was too obvious to pass up.

Soooo

What about your previous argument that the players had already made a serious concession already going to 50/50...

If that was true a few days ago... then what happened today that was so significant.
- Aetherial

I'll correct you as I often have to do. I've said previously that the players have agreed in principle to go to 50/50. Be accurate.

I told you what happened today that was significant in my previous reply. There is more then that though.

But now it's your turn. Why was the offer today a joke?

Most of the top guys have long term deals, they are the ones driving the boat.
- Symba007

Wedgie has a good point, and not just on his head...

We all know the owners will, in short order, figure out how to make the new CBA fail also.

Which makes the players' stance all the more sad.

Why are you losing income?

Sign the damn contract. The owners will end up screwing themselves no matter what.
- Atomic Wedgie

Yes, there is some merit to that. Everyone knows they can't help themselves.



As long as the players $ is based on a % of revenue they will probably do very well for themselves in aggregate in the long run.

Yeah but this was too obvious to pass up.

Soooo

What about your previous argument that the players had already made a serious concession already going to 50/50...

If that was true a few days ago... then what happened today that was so significant.
- Aetherial

Players dropped the first knee today, the league is waiting for them to get on both knees, choke on that ball and spread their legs some more.

Wedgie has a good point, and not just on his head...

We all know the owners will, in short order, figure out how to make the new CBA fail also.
- Aetherial

The first thing they will do is try to find holes in the CBA to find a competitive advantage. The league is trying to limit those holes.

Players dropped the first knee today, the league is waiting for them to get on both knees, choke on that ball and spread their legs some more.
- Symba007

Mmmmmm

I don't have to justify my education to you. I have studied finance, econimics and business valuation to understand how revenues are calculated, ebita, and ebit.
If you want to come in here all high and mighty then open up the hostess books, and lets analyse them, then tell me how their 2.5 B in sales, is so differents from the NHL's 3.3 B in reported revenue.
- moondawg

Right, you don't have to justify anything. Just like I don't have to try and explain how this really works and what goes into these calculations. Not being high and mighty about any of that just stating that there is money and quite a bit of it. If you don't believe that or how to figure out the numbers I am not going to try and explain it.

This is simple. Bettmans time has come and gone. He may have at one point did the league good but he is no longer the guy to be running the ship. Just like big level C corporate guys, they come and go after they have achieved their goal and move on to the next gig.

Too much focus on the rhetoric, and not enough focus on the process. The players offer today did indeed give on HRR to the Owners, from the 57% they made last year. Not enough to get a deal. But today was significant.
- MJL

I thought u said that was already the major concession?
What was todays move?
It was the same bs worded differently.

Fehr seems to have miscalculated on the situation.

Players dropped the first knee today, the league is waiting for them to get on both knees, choke on that ball and spread their legs some more.
- Symba007

Sounds like the beginning of a great movie...Does it have story or just a load of banging??

Mmmmmm
- weirdoh

I knew that would bring out of the closet

I thought u said that was already the major concession?
What was todays move?
It was the same bs worded differently.

Fehr seems to have miscalculated on the situation.
- hugefemale dog77

No it wasn't the same BS worded differently. The players agreed in principle to move towards 50/50. That is a major concession. What they haven't done yet, is figure out how to get there. That is what today was about. I don't think it's good enough to get a deal done, but it's a start.

Right, you don't have to justify anything. Just like I don't have to try and explain how this really works and what goes into these calculations. Not being high and mighty about any of that just stating that there is money and quite a bit of it. If you don't believe that or how to figure out the numbers I am not going to try and explain it.

This is simple. Bettmans time has come and gone. He may have at one point did the league good but he is no longer the guy to be running the ship. Just like big level C corporate guys, they come and go after they have achieved their goal and move on to the next gig.
- KOS

29 guys disagree with you, Champ.

Right, you don't have to justify anything. Just like I don't have to try and explain how this really works and what goes into these calculations. Not being high and mighty about any of that just stating that there is money and quite a bit of it. If you don't believe that or how to figure out the numbers I am not going to try and explain it.

This is simple. Bettmans time has come and gone. He may have at one point did the league good but he is no longer the guy to be running the ship. Just like big level C corporate guys, they come and go after they have achieved their goal and move on to the next gig.
- KOS

Profits and revenues arent the same thing


The owners disagree with ur assesment

The first thing they will do is try to find holes in the CBA to find a competitive advantage. The league is trying to limit those holes.
- Symba007

So...they're trying to find ways to protect themselves from themselves?

And people think the NHLPA is the problem.

I'll correct you as I often have to do. I've said previously that the players have agreed in principle to go to 50/50. Be accurate.

I told you what happened today that was significant in my previous reply. There is more then that though.

But now it's your turn. Why was the offer today a joke?
- MJL

You specifically said today was significant because of the PA's move towards the owners from the 57% the players earned last year.

You also just admitted that the players PREVIOUSLY agreed in principle to go to 50/50.

So what you are saying is that the players have actually moved away from the owners. After all you admitted they agreed to go to 50/50 in principle... but today, they are only moving towards 50/50 (55% I believe was the calculation).

So according to YOUR ARGUEMENTS to date, the players made a WORSE offer today.

Our conversation need go no further. You are trapped in your own arguments AND simultaneously supported my assertion that today's offer was a joke.

Thanks Dude

So...they're trying to find ways to protect themselves from themselves?

And people think the NHLPA is the problem.
- Scoob

Once the CBA is signed, it's a war between teams. Lots of money to be made in the playoffs....they all want a share of it.

So...they're trying to find ways to protect themselves from themselves?

And people think the NHLPA is the problem.
- Scoob

Scoob, you need to come on this thread more often!

Kessel to EDM
- Symba007

That was way too easy lol.

That was way too easy lol.
- SUPERDOMINO

like playing t-ball

Someone posted a blurb on successful business constantly revisiting their business model. I wish I could find it. Maybe I could, if I wasn't so busy finding purse dog pictures.
- Aetherial

The problem is that they aren't touching the basic business model that is causing their problems. It is easier to go after share of salaries than to sort out their internal problems driven by reality that 7 some of the franchises cannot survive in a system here revenues driven by Leafs, Habs, Rangers drive their costs.

No it wasn't the same BS worded differently. The players agreed in principle to move towards 50/50. That is a major concession. What they haven't done yet, is figure out how to get there. That is what today was about. I don't think it's good enough to get a deal done, but it's a start.
- MJL

So i say again. What's changed from yesterday?

I thought u said that was already the major concession?
What was todays move?
It was the same bs worded differently.

Fehr seems to have miscalculated on the situation.
- hugefemale dog77

Actually, the previous concession he crowed about was agreeing in principle to go to 50/50.

Today, he says it is significant that they moved to 55% (approx.)

So... logically, the offer today was worse

The problem is that they aren't touching the basic business model that is causing their problems. It is easier to go after share of salaries than to sort out their internal problems driven by reality that 7 some of the franchises cannot survive in a system here revenues driven by Leafs, Habs, Rangers drive their costs.
- Canada Cup

So, let me pull an MJL on you and sort of dance around this, but not nearly so bad...

How do explain the PA suggesting revenue sharing is a big part of a solution.

If the franchises can't survive, I would argue that pumping more money into them is not a viable business model for the league.