The owners have actually been making concessions, moving towards the players. This is the first sign of a real proposal from the players, and they are immediately out in the press crying because the owners did not take the deal.

Every offer from the league has attempted to move in the direction of the players, but the players have moved nowhere until today.
- niedermayer27

Here's the problem here. The first part of your reply deals in the actual process. The second part, is dealing with the rhetoric. To know what's really going on. Focus on the process and ignore the rhetoric. Because that's all the latter is, is rhetoric.

Fehr isn't ready to negotiate....both side still feel little urgency to make the first big concession. Owners expect players to take a salary cut.....union refuses...status quo.
- Symba007

So true.

The PA's offer today was laughable.

If the Cap/Floor calculation someone posted was true, then I think the PA's proposal would have them actually earning MORE money than before and giving up almost nothing on contracting issues.

Again, the biggest surprise was how long the league stayed in the room.

Just cancel the season and give the Leafs the first overall pick and start up again next year.
- tmlfan69

U silly thing...The #1 pick will go to the B-Jackets....

Buddy, Hostess revenues last year was 2.5 Billion, You need to learn the difference between revenues and earnings.
- moondawg

Are you a finance major? Work for a fortune 500 that works in calculating revenue? I hate having to explain this as I already went through this with atomic wedgie. It is pointless when people don't understand how his stuff works. Work through cash flow analysis, ebit and ebita and tell me how those play out for both the nhl and n
Hostess. We will be able to simply sum it up as record revenue. Overall there was lots of money being made. Time to move away from semantics at this point.

Here's the problem here. The first part of your reply deals in the actual process. The second part, is dealing with the rhetoric. To know what's really going on. Focus on the process and ignore the rhetoric. Because that's all the latter is, is rhetoric.
- MJL

Seriously? The players have offered up nothing until this point to get a deal done. The league has at least made more than 1 offer over and over. That is not rhetoric, that is fact.

What? That is not how the world works....

The owners have to pay for EVERYTHING to keep their team on the ice. That is where all the revenues go. They pay to keep the lights on, the ice cold, the team jet fueled. Maybe the players should start paying for all that, then they can have a bigger share.
- niedermayer27

that's called business chum, and if the league has an issue with the results of the syste, they should go back 8 years and force implement a system that actually gains profits.

no one is arguing that the players don't have to give some back, but as long as your business is being run by a group that's automatic for (frank)ing everything up, and demanding their employees balance it out of a system they were forced into, they can't keep demanding the moon.

the league is losing 20-30 million a day right now. you want the players to foot that bill to? clean up your own house, and demand your house cleaner pay for the broken items when they're the ones that actually broke them.

Sigh.

If I had a dollar for every time I had to explain that record revenues does not mean profits...
- Atomic Wedgie

I think you should do some research on what was made and what wasn't made. You get caught up on one word without understaning how a full market analysis works.

Seriously? The players have offered up nothing until this point to get a deal done. The league has at least made more than 1 offer over and over. That is not rhetoric, that is fact.
- niedermayer27

You didn't understand the post then.

The rhetoric is the players out crying to the press part.

1. The cap floor is "too high" because high-revenue teams are growing faster than low-revenue teams can keep up. This only doesn't make sense to people who think every market is (or should be) identical or have identical chances for growth; everyone else realizes that's not the case (and can never be).

2. Moving teams from "bad" markets to "good" markets doesn't fix that "problem." In fact, it pushes the cap even higher as more revenue is generated - and that puts even more pressure on every team that isn't moved as well as any market that moves from "OK" to "need a little help here." In short: you're arguing that if enough teams are moved, everyone will eventually be "above average" and not need any help.
- Irish Blues

Yes, ignoring the moving average LOL!

The PA offer today was hilarious. I can't think of any other adjective.

Hamrlik became my favorite player for having the balls to say what a no doubt large contingent of the PA is thinking.

So true.

The PA's offer today was laughable.

If the Cap/Floor calculation someone posted was true, then I think the PA's proposal would have them actually earning MORE money than before and giving up almost nothing on contracting issues.

Again, the biggest surprise was how long the league stayed in the room.
- Aetherial

Why was the PA's offer laughable? According to McKenzie's numbers, year 1 of the deal would give them a 55% share.

Yes, ignoring the moving average LOL!

The PA offer today was hilarious. I can't think of any other adjective.

Hamrlik became my favorite player for having the balls to say what a no doubt large contingent of the PA is thinking.
- Aetherial

Yes, because one player speaking out, surely means that there is a large contingent thinking the same.

I think you should do some research on what was made and what wasn't made. You get caught up on one word without understaning how a full market analysis works.
- KOS

This coming from someone who posted

I heard people comparing this to hostess union. Really? A company that loses money compared to one with record revenue.
- KOS

and who thinks EBITA is the best measure for making business decisions, despite its numerous flaws.

that's called business chum, and if the league has an issue with the results of the syste, they should go back 8 years and force implement a system that actually gains profits.

no one is arguing that the players don't have to give some back, but as long as your business is being run by a group that's automatic for (frank)ing everything up, and demanding their employees balance it out of a system they were forced into, they can't keep demanding the moon.

the league is losing 20-30 million a day right now. you want the players to foot that bill to? clean up your own house, and demand your house cleaner pay for the broken items when they're the ones that actually broke them.
- joel878

yap yap yap yap yap...


Purse dog!! Could it really be you!?

Oh how I have missed you. You have become legend around here; location-worthy even. I was starting to think that we must have dreamed all the entertainment you provided...

So glad you are here to provide your special form of enlightenment. Your post is a good start but not your best. Come on chihuahua let your inner Manson shine!

Are you a finance major? Work for a fortune 500 that works in calculating revenue? I hate having to explain this as I already went through this with atomic wedgie. It is pointless when people don't understand how his stuff works. Work through cash flow analysis, ebit and ebita and tell me how those play out for both the nhl and n
Hostess. We will be able to simply sum it up as record revenue. Overall there was lots of money being made. Time to move away from semantics at this point.
- KOS

I don't have to justify my education to you. I have studied finance, econimics and business valuation to understand how revenues are calculated, ebita, and ebit.
If you want to come in here all high and mighty then open up the hostess books, and lets analyse them, then tell me how their 2.5 B in sales, is so differents from the NHL's 3.3 B in reported revenue.

Yes, because one player speaking out, surely means that there is a large contingent thinking the same.
- MJL

I believe it does. I don't care what you believe. It seriously scares me on the few occasions that we actually agree.

Hamrlik

http://sports.yahoo.com/b...erfeed&utm_medium=twitter

"I am disgusted. We have to push Fehr to the wall to get the deal. Time is against us. We lost 1/4 season, it is $425 million. Who will give it back to us? Mr. Fehr?

"There should be voting between players. Four questions - YES or NO - then count it. If half of players say let's play, then they should sign new CBA. If there is no season he should leave and we will find someone new. Time is our enemy."
- Symba007

Hamr obviously sees his career finishing very soon, so he might be abit self serving,
But wow!! This is the first time ive heard such a damning statement against their own leader!

Id be willing to bet a ton of the older and lower earners in the union feel the same way.

Good stuff roman!!

I believe it does. I don't care what you believe. It seriously scares me on the few occasions that we actually agree.
- Aetherial

You can believe whatever you want to. But to base something like that on one player's comments is rather silly.

Why was the PA's offer laughable? According to McKenzie's numbers, year 1 of the deal would give them a 55% share.
- MJL

Do you really think for a second I am going to start debating the specifics of the offer with you?

It was a joke.

You can believe whatever you want to. But to base something like that on one player's comments is rather silly.
- MJL

ok

Do you really think for a second I am going to start debating the specifics of the offer with you?

It was a joke.
- Aetherial

That's your choice. But to state it was a joke is a clear indicator that you don't understand what happened.

Hamr obviously sees his career finishing very soon, so he might be abit self serving,
But wow!! This is the first time ive heard such a damning statement against their own leader!

Good stuff roman!!
- hugefemale dog77

It is absolutely self-serving. It is probably also fairly common

That's your choice. But to state it was a joke is a clear indicator that you don't understand what happened.
- MJL

yes, clearly

yes, clearly
- Aetherial

Clearly!

Hamr obviously sees his career finishing very soon, so he might be abit self serving,
But wow!! This is the first time ive heard such a damning statement against their own leader!

Id be willing to bet a ton of the older and lower earners in the union feel the same way.

Good stuff roman!!
- hugefemale dog77

I wonder if Fehr will still believe it's best for players to speak their minds after this.

If the Oilers get a 4th straight year of the first overall selection because of the lockout, I'll go nuts.