u were??
- hugefemale dog77

Sadly, yes. You should be shocked that I was shocked and I am not shocked that you were shocked.

*hangs head in shame*

Sadly, yes. You should be shocked that I was shocked and I am not shocked that you were shocked.

*hangs head in shame*
- Aetherial

exactly my point

- +8M/-8M payroll range becomes +/- 20% of midpoint beginning in 2013/14

- The Upper Limit may not fall below 67.25 M in any year of the agreement. This is half way between the 11/12 Upper Limit (64.3 M) and the 12/13 UL (70.2 M).

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=409992
- Symba007

So what happens if revenues fall, such that the calculated upper limit is less than 67.25?

The upper limit stays at 67.25 ... and thus is actually delinked from revenues.

well I am not sure that is the case that 30 guys do want Bettman as the leader. I just said before I am not sure how many votes it takes to keep him. I would find it hard to believe it takes a 100% vote to keep him in.
- KOS

It doesn't take a 100% vote to kick him out (it takes a 2/3rds majority) - but seeing as how they voted unanimously to give him a contract extension in November, 2010 and voted unanimously to lock the players out on his recommendation, it's a little far-fetched to think that they've suddenly turned against him en masse.

The owners disagree with each other. They also know Bettman's in charge of herding them together and is responsible for taking the heat for their decisions - and in that respect, they couldn't be much happier.

Seeing as how I'm working for an insurer, EBITA is the least of anyone's concerns. It sure as hell isn't what we look at when we decide whether to undertake a transaction; IRR is.

You know, something that accounts for one of the items that EBITA ignores. But I'm sure you already knew that.
- Irish Blues

I wouldn't think EBITA would be used at all for underwriting. That makes complete sense that is a totally different thing. Kind of like the language the NHL and NHLPA are talking.

I dont even see how it would make sense to try and use EBITA for that, but I am not that familiar with insurance, it just doesnt make any sense why you even would. Maybe a med term bridge finance, but otherwise who cares.

exactly my point
- hugefemale dog77

I had more faith in him than you did

It doesn't take a 100% vote to kick him out (it takes a 2/3rds majority) - but seeing as how they voted unanimously to give him a contract extension in November, 2010 and voted unanimously to lock the players out on his recommendation, it's a little far-fetched to think that they've suddenly turned against him en masse.

The owners disagree with each other. They also know Bettman's in charge of herding them together and is responsible for taking the heat for their decisions - and in that respect, they couldn't be much happier.
- Irish Blues

maybe, but there is no real way to prove that. I dont know what he has promised in this round. And I am going to take your word for it that it was a 100% vote. However that still doesn't change my opinion that he has screwed things up. He has played the media on this one too. coming in with the low ball 43% then moving to 50% to look like the good guy. It was simply early BS that everyone has forgotten and moved on to the players feeling their 50% is a joke now. It is all a joke, and everyone is getting played here.

I wouldn't think EBITA would be used at all for underwriting. That makes complete sense that is a totally different thing. Kind of like the language the NHL and NHLPA are talking.

I dont even see how it would make sense to try and use EBITA for that, but I am not that familiar with insurance, it just doesnt make any sense why you even would. Maybe a med term bridge finance, but otherwise who cares.
- KOS

Here, let me illustrate with a very simple example why EBITA fails.

-- Company A earns $10 million and pays $9 million in taxes, interest and amortization.
-- Company B earns $4 million and pays $1 million in taxes, interest and amortization.

EBITA says "Company A is better." Reality says "Company B is better." You prefer EBITA and ignoring half the story on a company's financials; I prefer getting the full story on a company's financials.

EBITA also tells me nothing about the rate of return on a particular investment - only whether it produces gains excluding certain (important) costs. IRR tells me (A) what that rate of return is, and (B) whether it exceeds my cost of capital. That's much more important than simply "will I make money?"

and the CBA is supposed to fix the "No Fan" issue??.....
- Fruitcakenipple

No, the Cup win is

Here, let me illustrate with a very simple example why EBITA fails.

-- Company A earns $10 million and pays $9 million in taxes, interest and amortization.
-- Company B earns $4 million and pays $1 million in taxes, interest and amortization.

EBITA says "Company A is better." Reality says "Company B is better." You prefer EBITA and ignoring half the story on a company's financials; I prefer getting the full story on a company's financials.
- Irish Blues

IB, do you know what this is?

Goepfert Rule as proposed by NHLPA

IB, do you know what this is?

Goepfert Rule as proposed by NHLPA
- MJL

@mc79hockey Goepfert Rule relates to players who have completed 4 yrs postdraft but still have college eligibilty (loophole to UFA)

I think this has to do with how players who fall into this area have their rights retained until the August 15 following the graduating date of their class; if they are unsigned but still have eligibility, then when they leave school they become UFA. I would guess the NHLPA is offering to close this so teams retain the player's rights until the player actually leaves college, but seeing as how the NHLPA's offer is not much more than an outline, it's hard to say for sure.

No, the Cup win is
- trolleytracks

Not to get too involved in this discussion here, but those bashing on LA's fanbase should probably check out our ticket sales over the last...well for as long as I have been a season ticket holder ('97, and have been attending games with my late father since '78). I hardly remember a game without a sellout in recent seasons, and our team has been piss poor...even last season we barely made the dance. I honestly can't really explain that cup run.

I'm exhausted.

I'm exhausted.
- bloatedmosquito

You? Never!

You? Never!
- Aetherial

It just feels that we are talking in circles.

It's like a circle jerk of opinions.

It just feels that we are talking in circles.

It's like a circle jerk of opinions.
- bloatedmosquito

Or maybe a daisy chain.

*** I can almost hear the 70's porno music and see a room full of Ian White moustaches! ***

Yeah, they need to settle this thing.

Here, let me illustrate with a very simple example why EBITA fails.

-- Company A earns $10 million and pays $9 million in taxes, interest and amortization.
-- Company B earns $4 million and pays $1 million in taxes, interest and amortization.

EBITA says "Company A is better." Reality says "Company B is better." You prefer EBITA and ignoring half the story on a company's financials; I prefer getting the full story on a company's financials.

EBITA also tells me nothing about the rate of return on a particular investment - only whether it produces gains excluding certain (important) costs. IRR tells me (A) what that rate of return is, and (B) whether it exceeds my cost of capital. That's much more important than simply "will I make money?"
- Irish Blues

That is where you dont understand how ebita really works being on the other side of the fence. It is a calculation on how profitable a company can be, as long as companies dont screw with the numbers. What you want is cash flow and from what you said before it is the ability to simply pay something back. You wont get that from EBITA, and that is why you wouldnt use it. EBITA may not be the end all of calculations but we are not even talking the same thing here.

That is where you dont understand how ebita really works being on the other side of the fence. It is a calculation on how profitable a company can be, as long as companies dont screw with the numbers. What you want is cash flow and from what you said before it is the ability to simply pay something back. You wont get that from EBITA, and that is why you wouldnt use it. EBITA may not be the end all of calculations but we are not even talking the same thing here.
- KOS

What the F?

I saw Evita twice. It was awesome!

I'm exhausted.
- bloatedmosquito

Well, you are a bloatedmosquito. Slow down a little.

What the F?

I saw Evita twice. It was awesome!
- Aetherial

I drink EVIAN. Does that count?

What the F?

I saw Evita twice. It was awesome!
- Aetherial

Don't you like it when an accountant argues with an actuary over what's the best way to calculate revenues.

Well, you are a bloatedmosquito. Slow down a little.
- sloppyseconds2

Wow. Just wow. Just read the blog, and Ek's delusions have reached their zenith. It feels like just yesterday when the NHL was supposed to drop the puck around the American Thanksgiving.

Apparently I missed the MJL party. Nothing activates my PCS like his dodge and dance, trapped in a bubble, logic.

Don't you like it when an accountant argues with an actuary over what's the best way to calculate revenues.
- Symba007

After reading it, I think I lost my 6 times tables and I asked my wife to start doing the finances.

I'm going to go back to practicing what the primary colors are.

Your not about to debate it with me? What have you been doing then?

I certainly have explained how it was significant. In numerous posts. Just because you don't agree with it, doesn't mean I haven't explained that.

And a number of the top bloggers and reporters covering the lockout have deemed the offer significant. I can provide that to you if you'd like.

Feel free to provide a credible source that backs up your premise that the offer today was a joke.
- MJL

Guess the question I would like to ask... is "if" the players have been negotiating up to this point which you say they have. And year one of this proposal comes in a closer to 56% ( some say 55 but the numbers I am hearing is 56) What exactly have the players moved since the locked started. We have been in this position for over 2 months and the players have moved from 57 to 56. And still don't get to 50% at all during the 5 year CBA...

I really want Sid to get back on TV and tell me what the players have given up... did they go from 57 to 56.9 to 56.8 to 56.5 to 56.... at this rate Sid your gonna be dead by the time you sign a CBA