Do you see any outward sense of urgency from either side? They don't seem concerned about being out of time. A 55-60 game season seems to be OK for both sides. So, out of time for what?

If Fehr doesn't make any move toward the owners in this set of meetings, I think the NHL should call his bluff and announce the season has been cancelled and let the union stew on that until after Thanksgiving. I think their attitude may then change dramatically as early as next Monday.
- RickJ

no sense on urgency seems like a dangerous game to play that can backfire

I thought the league should have called his bluff (announcing a cancelled season already) maybe a few weeks back, (would have seemed early, but may have boosted the urgency quicker, & with that my last wonder, would the players attitude change if/when that were to happen? They seem pretty "loyally misguided" to this clown, who, never really came to any of the meetings with any substance, only a flawed plan to believe he would threaten 30 billionaires into jumping through his hoop.

no sense on urgency seems like a dangerous game to play that can backfire

I thought the league should have called his bluff (announcing a cancelled season already) maybe a few weeks back, (would have seemed early, but may have boosted the urgency quicker, & with that my last wonder, would the players attitude change if/when that were to happen? They seem pretty "loyally misguided" to this clown, who, never really came to any of the meetings with any substance, only a flawed plan to believe he would threaten 30 billionaires into jumping through his hoop.
- puckhead17

What Fehr is doing is just tactics. Frustrate the NHL, stall, delay, refuse to address NHL proposals. He can turn on a dime if his constituents tell him to.

One thing that I have thought for awhile is that the two sides are just a bad match for each other. Fresh faces are needed, not more of the same crap from Bettman and the Fehr Bros.

What I would love to see is a couple of the major sponsors (Molson, NBC etc) call up and demand airtime to address both sides in a meeting and tell them both that if this isn't settled in 2 weeks that they are pulling their sponsorship $ permanently immediately thereafter. Something has to break the logjam.

What Fehr is doing is just tactics. Frustrate the NHL, stall, delay, refuse to address NHL proposals. He can turn on a dime if his constituents tell him to.

One thing that I have thought for awhile is that the two sides are just a bad match for each other. Fresh faces are needed, not more of the same crap from Bettman and the Fehr Bros.

What I would love to see is a couple of the major sponsors (Molson, NBC etc) call up and demand airtime to address both sides in a meeting and tell them both that if this isn't settled in 2 weeks that they are pulling their sponsorship $ permanently immediately thereafter. Something has to break the logjam.
- RickJ

I thought that as well, (bold), maybe Daley?, (it seems that he & Steve Fehr each communicated better), I don't know, but it seems as though from Goodenow to Fehr, it's more of an "adversarial" approach to the situation, than a someone like Paul Kelly, (whom they fired because they though he was to friendly with the owners), but wouldn't someone whom the other side respects benefit the players more in this fight?

Great point on the sponsors, that would be the $$$ pressure that may change everyone's approach, & eliminate the winner vs loser fight.

I thought that as well, (bold), maybe Daley?, (it seems that he & Steve Fehr each communicated better), I don't know, but it seems as though from Goodenow to Fehr, it's more of an "adversarial" approach to the situation, than a someone like Paul Kelly, (whom they fired because they though he was to friendly with the owners), but wouldn't someone whom the other side respects benefit the players more in this fight?

Great point on the sponsors, that would be the $$$ pressure that may change everyone's approach, & eliminate the winner vs loser fight.
- puckhead17

Yes, can you imagine major sponsors like Scotiabank, Honda, Molson's, NBC coming forward and telling the 2 sides that "we represent $XXX million annually in sposorship money. We don't care how you do it, get this thing figured out in the next 14 days or we are gone, permanently".

Yes, can you imagine major sponsors like Scotiabank, Honda, Molson's, NBC coming forward and telling the 2 sides that "we represent $XXX million annually in sposorship money. We don't care how you do it, get this thing figured out in the next 14 days or we are gone, permanently".
- RickJ

That would be an awesome thing, (if it were to happen), nothing else would light a fire under their collective asses faster!!

Eklund: Whywe shouldn't be afraid of Donald Fehr.
- Eklund

I'm not so much "afraid" of Donald Fehr as I am "filled with a desire to kick him in the nuts repeatedly."

We should definately "be afraid" of Donald Fehr. He's one of the main reasons that baseball now truly sucks.

Had a bad feeling when the players hired this douche!

Do you see any outward sense of urgency from either side? They don't seem concerned about being out of time. A 55-60 game season seems to be OK for both sides. So, out of time for what?

If Fehr doesn't make any move toward the owners in this set of meetings, I think the NHL should call his bluff and announce the season has been cancelled and let the union stew on that until after Thanksgiving. I think their attitude may then change dramatically as early as next Monday.
- RickJ

while this would probably make financial sense to any right minded person, i dont agree that the players will budge any furthur than they have at the last set of cancellations...which is not at all

they're negotiating on principle alone at this stage really. any business sense or acumen that this started out to be, has to be gone out the window at this stage. imo, it's the main reason we havent got a deal done yet. listen to your brethren (modano, recchi, roenick etc) that went through the lockout and have moved on for god sakes union.

i hope they pull their collective heads outta their collective asses and realize they need to sign an agreement soon. or they'll lose paychecks for this entire season AND the subsequent offer will be much worse after the damage to the league is done..maybe irreparably

Yes, can you imagine major sponsors like Scotiabank, Honda, Molson's, NBC coming forward and telling the 2 sides that "we represent $XXX million annually in sposorship money. We don't care how you do it, get this thing figured out in the next 14 days or we are gone, permanently".
- RickJ

it's a good idea, but this would probably only work to spurn the owners on. not the players. id bet that the players would welcome it in fact.

they get paid regardless if sponsorship pulls funding etc. this one of the important points that some people seem to forget.

"we want to be partners with the league. we truly care about the health of the league. but im certainly not giving any money back if no one comes to the game. help pay all the expenses?? no way! share in possible losses? no way!!"

every single one of the players on the blue jackets made more profit than the owner for eff sakes

Over the years, I've had the distinct pleasure of sitting across the table in contract negotiations with the Steelworkers and Autoworkers Unions. Delaying, not showing up at scheduled times for meetings, having a designated "yeller" at the table are all part of the tactics. Being disrespectful is all part of the game, if your skin is thin it will get to you.

Unless the circumstances are particularly dire for the company or the industry the union is involved in, they always start with looking to add to the wages and benefits they have previously negotiated in earlier contracts, not give up anything. When they eventually come to the conclusion that an offer is the best they are going to get, they settle. That is what is going to happen in this situation. The day to day antics mean absolutely nothing.

That said, I'd love to hear that one of the players punched Bettman out in the middle of one of the sessions. A lot of people would feel better hearing that.
- RickJ

Dude.

Your post was actually interesting and informative and I quite seriously would love to hear about the crap that goes on in collective bargaining.

Then you blow it all up with a dumb final statement.

Dude.

Your post was actually interesting and informative and I quite seriously would love to hear about the crap that goes on in collective bargaining.

Then you blow it all up with a dumb final statement.
- Aetherial

C'mon. There's not the slightest bit of you that would love to see Gary pummeled?

Do you see any outward sense of urgency from either side? They don't seem concerned about being out of time. A 55-60 game season seems to be OK for both sides. So, out of time for what?

If Fehr doesn't make any move toward the owners in this set of meetings, I think the NHL should call his bluff and announce the season has been cancelled and let the union stew on that until after Thanksgiving. I think their attitude may then change dramatically as early as next Monday.
- RickJ

Agreed.

I think Fehr has one chance.

My only hope is that the NHL doesn't get sucked into the table if Fehr makes some minor niggling concession, like agreeing to make rookie contracts 4 years or something.

He needs to bring an offer.
He needs to negotiate on the points that the NHL has said are negotiable.

Mostly, he needs to show up on time, not be an asshat during the poceedings and not introduce ridiculous suggestions about salary increases this year and guaranteed going forward.

... if he can do those things, maybe they have reason to talk.

If he stays true to his course, I hope the NHL cancels the season and then let's see how solid, or stupid, the NHLPA really is.

C'mon. There's not the slightest bit of you that would love to see Gary pummeled?
- Canada Cup

... not for the lockout, no.

For his smug and smarmy attitude and for insisting on keeping franchises in dumb markets, and not letting more move to Canada, or at least a better market in the US...

yeah, sure

C'mon. There's not the slightest bit of you that would love to see Gary pummeled?
- Canada Cup

I can speak from the (large market $) point of view, Snider wanted more to steal Weber from Nashville, imagine Gary trying to get him to hand over a bigger revenue check to the Predators instead?
Hey Ed Snier, you tried to steal Weber, now pull out your checkbook & help the poor Preds pay him.............................really?

Hell no, & thats the dilemma Bettman has, 30 owners & 2 different dilemmas - the Rich owners & the not so rich owners.

But many think it's all Bettman's fault

Agreed.

I think Fehr has one chance.

My only hope is that the NHL doesn't get sucked into the table if Fehr makes some minor niggling concession, like agreeing to make rookie contracts 4 years or something.

He needs to bring an offer.
He needs to negotiate on the points that the NHL has said are negotiable.

Mostly, he needs to show up on time, not be an asshat during the poceedings and not introduce ridiculous suggestions about salary increases this year and guaranteed going forward.

... if he can do those things, maybe they have reason to talk.

If he stays true to his course, I hope the NHL cancels the season and then let's see how solid, or stupid, the NHLPA really is.
- Aetherial

why did the players sign them instead of waiting to see about how the CBA was going to go? the players were fully aware and wanted very large signing bonus's to protect it

both were done in bad faith, or equal however you want to look at it
- dmarsden2988

I keep reading this, and there is no evidence to suggest this. I don't know the exact figure, but there were perhaps over a 100 players that signed a new contract. To my knowledge there were 3 players that got huge signing bonuses in upfront money. And one of them Shea Weber. His contract was clearly designed to make it difficult for Nashville to match the Offer Sheet. And there are players who signed in previous Seasons such as Brad Richards, that have that same type of huge upfront bonus money. There is far more evidence that suggests that that type of contract is about top Free Agents who are in huge demand, being able to command that kind of contract.

so basically anyone who has the wherewithal to see through the union's pathetic rhetoric is Gary Bettman? dude, grow up. not everyone allows the wool to be pulled over their eyes.
- scotch_tape

And anyone who sees the PA side is having the wool pulled over their eyes? As if the NHL hasn't had their own pathetic rhetoric. I think some of the NHL supporters should be given the same message your giving here. PA supporters have been called names and labeled things on this board through the entire process. It's even been suggested multiple times that I'm actually an NHL player! LOL. So to bottle this up to a main point. If NHL supporters are going to tell PA supporters to grow up, then a lot of the NHL supporters need to look in the mirror.

Trudat!!

Imagine Gary telling Jacobs Snyder Ilitch Dolan Wirtz etc etc what to do, & how & where?

Gary has fuc&ed up a few times, true, but he's acting on part of all the billionaires in the league.

Fehr on the other hand has a different power, yes he's hired by the NHLPA, but somehow he's able to tell them it's ok to sit & wait................... another deal is coming.
meanwhile $$$ is getting flushed!
- puckhead17

Because money isn't getting flushed on the Owners side? LOL

It's no different on the players side. Fehr is acting on the players behalf. And to state otherwise shows two things. A clear bias and/or a clear lack of understanding on what is going on.

no sense on urgency seems like a dangerous game to play that can backfire

I thought the league should have called his bluff (announcing a cancelled season already) maybe a few weeks back, (would have seemed early, but may have boosted the urgency quicker, & with that my last wonder, would the players attitude change if/when that were to happen? They seem pretty "loyally misguided" to this clown, who, never really came to any of the meetings with any substance, only a flawed plan to believe he would threaten 30 billionaires into jumping through his hoop.
- puckhead17

You keep making repeated statements with really no substance behind them. Your certainly entitled to that opinion. But you don't state anything concrete. Mostly just showing a clear bias towards Fehr, illustrated here by calling him a clown.

Here's a different perspective.

http://www.csnphilly.com/...blockID=803151&feedID=695

Here we go, stupid time has arrived.

thread = broken

while this would probably make financial sense to any right minded person, i dont agree that the players will budge any furthur than they have at the last set of cancellations...which is not at all

they're negotiating on principle alone at this stage really. any business sense or acumen that this started out to be, has to be gone out the window at this stage. imo, it's the main reason we havent got a deal done yet. listen to your brethren (modano, recchi, roenick etc) that went through the lockout and have moved on for god sakes union.

i hope they pull their collective heads outta their collective asses and realize they need to sign an agreement soon. or they'll lose paychecks for this entire season AND the subsequent offer will be much worse after the damage to the league is done..maybe irreparably
- hugefemale dog77

There is no doubt in my mind that the players will budge and make an agreement on certain issues, in order to get a deal done. As long as they get some concessions in return. Which to this point, all the NHL seems to want to do is take concessions.

Here we go, stupid time has arrived.

thread = broken
- Aetherial

Clarify that? Who are you referring to? And why?

Yes, can you imagine major sponsors like Scotiabank, Honda, Molson's, NBC coming forward and telling the 2 sides that "we represent $XXX million annually in sposorship money. We don't care how you do it, get this thing figured out in the next 14 days or we are gone, permanently".
- RickJ

Because businesses did the same thing to MLB in '94, and to the NFL and NBA in their most recent lockouts, and we saw how quickly th- .... er, wait, no major sponsor pulled $$$ at all, did they? Probably because they know how this game works, and they know if the league shuts down for a season they'll get rebated or given free/discounted advertising down the road.

it's a good idea, but this would probably only work to spurn the owners on. not the players. id bet that the players would welcome it in fact.

they get paid regardless if sponsorship pulls funding etc. this one of the important points that some people seem to forget.

"we want to be partners with the league. we truly care about the health of the league. but im certainly not giving any money back if no one comes to the game. help pay all the expenses?? no way! share in possible losses? no way!!"

every single one of the players on the blue jackets made more profit than the owner for eff sakes
- hugefemale dog77

Not true at all. Sponsors increase Revenue for the League. The more revenue the League makes, the more the players make.

A player overseas texted me earlier today "what do you think we can do to help the situation?"

I'd bet dollars to donuts that never happened.