All you should really do when someone points out that the players were willing to play under the conditions of the OLD CBA, is just laugh.
- Aetherial

I get a much bigger laugh when someone claims the salary cap is illegal.

I get a much bigger laugh when someone claims the salary cap is illegal.
- Irish Blues

Is there people that think that? Really?

Hey Ek, You should ask your sources how quickly a deal would be done if the owners got rid of Bettman. I'm thinking that is the primary thing that the Players (and fans) want changed.

Is there people that think that? Really?
- Bieksa#3

Think about discussions you've been engaged in with others, then ask that question again.

Until the NHLPA moves off of "we want a guaranteed $1.883 billion we got last year, plus 1.75% for this year" there won't be a deal either.


If the owners weren't bargaining in good faith, why reward them by pushing a rollback on those contracts? On the contrary, if you're going to have a rollback (I think there shouldn't be one at all) I'd specifically exempt those contracts signed after 7/1/11 from it - just to account for the likelihood that some of them were negotiated with "... and there will be a rollback, so we won't have to pay all of that money" in mind.
- Irish Blues

I told you Irish...dont bother even responding to Bieksa #3...Clearly a players stooge and is the biggest tool on these boards. Not a brain in his head so dont even bother.

Hey Ek, You should ask your sources how quickly a deal would be done if the owners got rid of Bettman. I'm thinking that is the primary thing that the Players (and fans) want changed.
- Oilnutz

The players and fans don't choose the Commissioner. The owners do. Seeing as how it would take 20 of them to dump Bettman, and then they'd have to find someone else who will get them what they want, .... if there's a problem on the owners side, it's that there's 30 owners who aren't on the same page. Changing the guy running the league doesn't fix that problem.

I dont believe the NHL, Bettman & the Owners fear Donnald Fehr one bit. But they know who and what they are dealing with & will react accordingly.

Fehr is a man who has no respect for the NHL, the owners, the FANS or the game. He has no scruples. Fehr cares about nothing but getting money and power for the Union. He doesnt care how he gets it. Where it comes from. (FANS) Who it hurts. (everyone who's job relies on NHL Hockey) He really doesnt give a crap about repercussions or collateral damage. He really has little to nothing to lose. He gets paid regardless of how long this takes and the outcome.

He wants to dictate how the owners spend their money. How much they spend and who gets it. Basically he wants the UNION to run the NHL using the OWNERS Bank accounts. Nice gig if you can get it. Sounds a lot like Socialism to me.

The NHL knew all this the day Don Fehr was hired and they have been preparing their ground game ever since. They cant and wont give into this.

That's why I believe there will be no hockey in the 2012-2013 season. When did I know this? Seriously? The day Don Fehr was hired I knew there would be a lock out. I even posted at that time that there would be a lock out. How long it would last was a toss up.

If I knew it. Then the Owners knew it and any player with half a brain knew it to. The players hired Fehr to play hard ball. To start a war. And a war is what they have. Why are Players surprised? Did they really believe they were bigger then the game itself? Did they really believe owners would continue to lose millions on their teams for yrs to come? Do they really believe that the NHL can never survive without the present players under contract?

What was learned is that the owners are better poker players then they gave them credit for. Since many owners lose money on their NHL Teams. They can and will lock out current players indefinitely rather then to give into Fehr.

I Believe the next time you see NHL Hockey will be sometime in late OCT during the 2013-2014 season. Dont be surprised if the season starts with teams missing several of their regular players. It wont be pretty on or off the ice. The players then come back in full sometime during NOV/DEC 2013.

You see. The NHL can survive with out the current group of NHL players. It will take sometime to get back on its feet. It will lose some money but nothing like the money it would lose long time if they give into Fehr.

Remember this. For every player on an NHL roster there is someone in the the AHL, ECHL, KHL, Europe or Jr's who can and will replace them. Next yr or 2, 3, 4 yrs down the road. Yes there is another Sidney Crosby, OV and Gino Malkin somewhere in the world who will give their right nut to play in the NHL for Millions of dollars someday. Anyone who doubts it is kidding themselves.

It will take sometime for hard feeling's to subside and awhile before the fans forgive. Expect lots of give aways and special promotions to bring fans back to the Arena's.

BTW, I'm no company man. I come from a family with 40 plus years in the Teamsters, including 10 yrs myself. Been thru strikes and lockouts. Regardless of your occupation. There is always someone ready to come in and take your job. No one is indispensable for long.
- SCLI

Thanks for this, Gary! I'm sure you worked really hard on it, even though I stopped reading after about two lines.

Think about discussions you've been engaged in with others, then ask that question again.
- Irish Blues

What? Really who said a salary cap is illegel? I've read some crazy stuff on this site but never that. Or are you just trying to defend bettman?

Go (frank) yourself. Fehr is a tool. Hasnt done a dam thing this whole negotition yet. He is pathetic and is costing the players money they will never get back.
- Iggysbff

I love how fehr is to blame and bettman is innocent.

I love how fehr is to blame and bettman is innocent.
- Bieksa#3

Gary needs a BJ waiting list from HB users.

What? Really who said a salary cap is illegel? I've read some crazy stuff on this site but never that. Or are you just trying to defend bettman?
- Bieksa#3

Yeah, I'm trying to defend Bettman.

I can't recall who, it was a couple weeks back. This person argued that both the salary cap and the entry draft were illegal and that "experts agree that Fehr could get both thrown out" despite me repeatedly pointing to case law stating otherwise. I'd say it was tuna99, but that would be too easy (and even he's not that delusional).

Sadly, we don't have a "search posts" feature, so I can't go find it.

Thanks for this, Gary! I'm sure you worked really hard on it, even though I stopped reading after about two lines.
- triggermartin

If it was Bettman, it would have either gone on for another 4 pages or it wouldn't have been more than 4 words long.

I love how fehr is to blame and bettman is innocent.
- Bieksa#3

Bettman isn't "innocent" but you don't shoot the messenger. This is exactly what the commissioner does for the owners: He says and does as the owners beckon of him, and becomes the sole scapegoat for any negative repercussions. And i'm sure he's kept on some kind of leash. The owners won't get rid of him.

If taking him out of the negotiation's would exceedingly speed the process along, like what- i'm sure- Oilnutz was attempting to convey, then the owners might consider it. But otherwise Bettman hasn't done anything wrong: legally, morally, or in his employers' eyes.

But I get the players seem to have put Fehr in complete control. Free to do whatever he needs to, to get a favorable CBA for the players. And I don't think he's doing everything he can to bring NHL hockey back as quickly as possible. Actually it's clear that it is not his plan. His one and only play is the best CBA for the NHLPA. What it takes and how much damage comes from it, is not his concern.

If it was Bettman, it would have either gone on for another 4 pages or it wouldn't have been more than 4 words long.
- Irish Blues

Yeah, I'm trying to defend Bettman.
- Irish Blues

I can't recall who, it was a couple weeks back. This person argued that both the salary cap and the entry draft were illegal and that "experts agree that Fehr could get both thrown out" despite me repeatedly pointing to case law stating otherwise. I'd say it was tuna99, but that would be too easy (and even he's not that delusional).

Sadly, we don't have a "search posts" feature, so I can't go find it.

Regardless, they agreed to it so its there problem. And the entry draft Are you positive it wasn't Dr Claw and Mad Cat? Aka Cloutier and Iggysbff?

Bettman isn't "innocent" but you don't shoot the messenger. This is exactly what the commissioner does for the owners: He says and does as the owners beckon of him, and becomes the sole scapegoat for any negative repercussions. And i'm sure he's kept on some kind of leash. The owners won't get rid of him.

If taking him out of the negotiation's would exceedingly speed the process along, like what- i'm sure- Oilnutz was attempting to convey, then the owners might consider it. But otherwise Bettman hasn't done anything wrong: legally, morally, or in his employers' eyes.

But I get the players seem to have put Fehr in complete control. Free to do whatever he needs to, to get a favorable CBA for the players. And I don't think he's doing everything he can to bring NHL hockey back as quickly as possible. Actually it's clear that it is not his plan. His one and only play is the best CBA for the NHLPA. What it takes and how much damage comes from it, is not his concern.
- Dr3aMWeav3r

see stuff like this is crazy. There are multiple players at every meeting. Sure there are some idiots but some are very smart, not to mention they have agents they discuss this stuff with who are far more detailed on this crap then any of us. However, 0 owners attend the meetings.

see stuff like this is crazy. There are multiple players at every meeting. Sure there are some idiots but some are very smart, not to mention they have agents they discuss this stuff with who are far more detailed on this crap then any of us. However, 0 owners attend the meetings.
- Bieksa#3

Some owners are there at most meetings (4 of them tomorrow).

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=409721

Regardless, they agreed to it so its there problem. And the entry draft Are you positive it wasn't Dr Claw and Mad Cat? Aka Cloutier and Iggysbff?
- Bieksa#3

If it was Cloutier, it would explain a hell of a lot - but it wasn't. Definitely wasn't Iggysbff. The more I think about it, I think it was in some blog entry Yost put up - but I'm not interested enough to go dig and find it.

Some owners are there at most meetings (4 of them tomorrow).

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=409721
- Symba007

Can't find that article but ESPN said no owners attend the meetings. Maybe I'm misreading this put this doesn't say there are owners at all meetings.

To expect a rollback on contracts signed hrs even minutes before the cba expired is indeed acting in bad faith. Also the owners did not have to lock the players out.
- Bieksa#3

why did the players sign them instead of waiting to see about how the CBA was going to go? the players were fully aware and wanted very large signing bonus's to protect it

both were done in bad faith, or equal however you want to look at it

"A player overseas texted me earlier today "what do you think we can do to help the situation?"

Tell your leader you want the best deal possible, but also tell him that NO deal and cancelling a season is unacceptable.

Bahahahahahahaha, I think I popped a stitch after reading this. Thanks EK, I needed that laugh.

why did the players sign them instead of waiting to see about how the CBA was going to go? the players were fully aware and wanted very large signing bonus's to protect it

both were done in bad faith, or equal however you want to look at it
- dmarsden2988

Asking for a signing bonus which happens a lot in any contract talks sports or other labour unions. How in gods name are they acting in bad faith. Hate fehr and have an opinion about the lockout all you like but don't try and make it out to b something it isnt

Can't find that article but ESPN said no owners attend the meetings. Maybe I'm misreading this put this doesn't say there are owners at all meetings.
- Bieksa#3

I said to some meetings, not all. Jacobs was there at the last meeting, Edward was there at the previous one. Some of the members of the NHL negotiating committee (Murray Edwards, Jeremy Jacobs, Craig Leipold, Ted Leonsis) usually attend meetings.

If it was Cloutier, it would explain a hell of a lot - but it wasn't. Definitely wasn't Iggysbff. The more I think about it, I think it was in some blog entry Yost put up - but I'm not interested enough to go dig and find it.
- Irish Blues

Not a huge yost fan, but I'll give him this. He's one of the only bloggers or people in general that states both sides need to wake up instead of putting it all on one side

I said to some meetings, not all. Jacobs was there at the last meeting, Edward was there at the previous one. Some of the members of the NHL negotiating committee (Murray Edwards, Jeremy Jacobs, Craig Leipold, Ted Leonsis) usually attend meetings.
- Symba007

Leipold that guy is a huge reason for this mess. Edwards? Who does he own?