If Fehr is the evil negotiator everyone claims why would the players be surprised or brainwashed? Both sides looking to play hardball from the start. Ironically, they got very close to a deal which could be easily completed.

PS - hit ! by accident when responding
- Canada Cup

Yes, they don't seem to be as far off as they would have us believe, and that's why they need some neutral 3rd parties to step in. That's why the owners wanted to allow that window for the players to ask questions. They truly believe the players are not getting the whole truth from Fehr, and chances are they are BANG ON.

This has become a pissing match of ego between Fehr and Bettman, and everyone knows that the players will not be winning this battle. So the suggestion should be to get it done sooner rather than later as it will only get worse for the players, it's inevitable. So if you're a player, and you end up sitting the season, and signing a new deal that's not far off the one on the table now, wouldn't you be just a little ticked that the season will be lost simply because of one man's ego and stubbornness?

If Fehr is the evil negotiator everyone claims why would the players be surprised or brainwashed? Both sides looking to play hardball from the start. Ironically, they got very close to a deal which could be easily completed.

PS - hit ! by accident when responding
- Canada Cup

fehr is nothing. fehr will drag this out as long as he has to till the players fire him. he is no different than goodenow. the PA needs a 3rd party to step in.

Fher's job is to convince these players that they are as big as Baseball players and stand solid so they can get as much as they can. Sadly, it's flawed logic, as the players have already conceded that they will have to move to 50/50. THEY HAVE ALREADY LOST! At this point, he should be trying to save as much as possible rather than telling the players to continue to test the NHL's resolve. The owners are not budging and can afford to sit out a season more than the players can. THEY'VE ALREADY WON! Until the players realize that there's absolutely no way they can win this battle, they'll be losing money. That's just simple math. So, great that they have solidarity, because they're all going down on the same sinking ship. And Donald and Steve Fehr have already taken off with the only life raft. whether you side with the owners or not, we have to start realizing they've already won. They own the teams, they fuel the jets, they pay for equipment, they hold all the cards here. Sorry to burst peoples bubbles, but the players will not win and at this point look like a bunch of selfish children with not an ounce of grey matter between the lot of them.

The absolute best post on this site:

http://www.hockeybuzz.com...the-NHL-Lockout/167/47189

It's inevitable! his final statement is absolutely the truest thing said by anyone on any site:

"When the players realize that they cannot dictate terms to their bosses is when a deal will finally begin to take shape."

Does not matter at all what side you're on in this, nobody can dispute this fact!

Fher's job is to convince these players that they are as big as Baseball players and stand solid so they can get as much as they can. Sadly, it's flawed logic, as the players have already conceded that they will have to move to 50/50. THEY HAVE ALREADY LOST! At this point, he should be trying to save as much as possible rather than telling the players to continue to test the NHL's resolve. The owners are not budging and can afford to sit out a season more than the players can. THEY'VE ALREADY WON! Until the players realize that there's absolutely no way they can win this battle, they'll be losing money. That's just simple math. So, great that they have solidarity, because they're all going down on the same sinking ship. And Donald and Steve Fehr have already taken off with the only life raft. whether you side with the owners or not, we have to start realizing they've already won. They own the teams, they fuel the jets, they pay for equipment, they hold all the cards here. Sorry to burst peoples bubbles, but the players will not win and at this point look like a bunch of selfish children with not an ounce of grey matter between the lot of them.
- jbearx

THIS^^^^^^^^^

Ferh is turning this into a war when it really didn't have to be. He has marched them all up on hamburger hill, and left them pocket-knives to fight with.= No win situation for players.

The NHL actually made a good offer with the "make whole". I found it laughable that immediately after that proposal was released, Players were already acting "outraged" and claiming it was a fraud, even though they didn't even know what it was about. Fehr's brainwashing at it's finest.

The real issue here for the league is that they need to lower the cap, they are not trying to take anything from the players current contracts. Make whole was to see to that.Getting the cap floor down would allow the truly struggling teams to stay afloat and heaven forbid, maybe even eke out a small profit.

The real effect of this "players paying players" as Fehr calls it, is simply that teams won't have as much room to overspend on future contracts for a few years. Everyone is complaining about the huge overinflated contracts. Well lowering the cap is the only way to prevent it.

If the players want to follow Fehr up that hill just to protect some players from not being grossly overpaid on future contract negotiations for a few years. Then it'a a shame that they will be the ones dying on the swords while the Fehr bros will be long gone riding off into the sunset.

the NHL messed up in 3 big ways
1. horrible television contract. look at the NFL its on 4 stations
2. fantasy hockey is awful. they need to develop it better.
3. a poor CBA

i understand the PA's POV that once you give up something you have, ie. 7% of the HRR, you will never get it back. so this negotiation is for future generations. but the PA really need to sit down and ask themselves, will the NHL be around for future generations if it is not profitable for the owners?

i get the point of the inch by inch offer but bettman shes right through it. at this point is it worth losing a years salary to negotiate a losing battle? bettman will not entertain offers that are not serious just so fehr can see what he can and cant get away with. if the PA was smart they would make a final offer before they actually lose salary.

for the owners to bring in a guy like bettman kinda says alot. bettman wont sit in a room and negotiate so that both sides can be happy about the CBA. very scumbag'ish. you have to play the guessing game. once you give the league something you never get it back. i can see where the players just dont want to over give to get the deal done. its not for them but for the future generations.

for the owners to bring in a guy like bettman kinda says alot. bettman wont sit in a room and negotiate so that both sides can be happy about the CBA. very scumbag'ish. you have to play the guessing game. once you give the league something you never get it back. i can see where the players just dont want to over give to get the deal done. its not for them but for the future generations.
- joshs

What i don't get is that the players have already have alredy conceded that they will go to 50/50. Really they are only fighting for thier own contracts.

At this point they are only holding out against the leagues make whole provision,as opposed to just straight up having thier contracts honoured.

The problem is if thier contracts are honoured, then the cap can't go down.It's the unexpected overinflation of the cap during the last CBA that has caused ALL the problems for the NHL.

Thats what this is about. Immediate drop to 50/50 will lower the cap and let small markets survive, while controlling the rich teams from giving out overpriced contracts.

Sadly i don't believe that the players even understand what it is that they are fighting for.

What i don't get is that the players have already have alredy conceded that they will go to 50/50. Really they are only fighting for thier own contracts.

At this point they are only holding out against the leagues make whole provision,as opposed to just straight up having thier contracts honoured.

The problem is if thier contracts are honoured, then the cap can't go down.It's the unexpected overinflation of the cap during the last CBA that has caused ALL the problems for the NHL.

Thats what this is about. Immediate drop to 50/50 will lower the cap and let small markets survive, while controlling the rich teams from giving out overpriced contracts.

Sadly i don't believe that the players even understand what it is that they are fighting for.
- steveb12344

Sadly, a lot of people don't realize that you could move the players share to 25% and those teams would not survive as long as you have a salary floor that keeps going up because of revenue growth generated by the 5 or 6 top teams in the league.

The absolute best post on this site:

http://www.hockeybuzz.com...the-NHL-Lockout/167/47189

It's inevitable! his final statement is absolutely the truest thing said by anyone on any site:

"When the players realize that they cannot dictate terms to their bosses is when a deal will finally begin to take shape."

Does not matter at all what side you're on in this, nobody can dispute this fact!
- jbearx

I'm constantly astounded by what I read on here. How are players dictating anything? Both sides are negotiating the terms they want. If they can't agree, they don't work and the bosses can see if fans will come to their arenas to watch minor leaguers or book the circus into town 41 times a year.

Sadly, a lot of people don't realize that you could move the players share to 25% and those teams would not survive as long as you have a salary floor that keeps going up because of revenue growth generated by the 5 or 6 top teams in the league.
- Canada Cup

The cap floor is tied to the players percentage. If the players share was 25% the cap floor (and ceiling) would be so low that every team except maybe Phoenix would be making so much money they could probably even afford to lower ticket prices a little.( whether they would or not is another story )

This concept is so simple that you have to be absolutely blinded, and brainwashed by Fehr's propaganda, not to see what is right in front of your face

Sadly, a lot of people don't realize that you could move the players share to 25% and those teams would not survive as long as you have a salary floor that keeps going up because of revenue growth generated by the 5 or 6 top teams in the league.
- Canada Cup

Although that revenue growth will not happen as fast now and in fact may shrink due to the Canadian dollar.

The cap floor is tied to the players percentage. If the players share was 25% the cap floor (and ceiling) would be so low that every team except maybe Phoenix would be making so much money they could probably even afford to lower ticket prices a little.( whether they would or not is another story )

This concept is so simple that you have to be absolutely blinded, and brainwashed by Fehr's propaganda, not to see what is right in front of your face
- steveb12344

Oh dear. The cap and floor are directly connected to revenues. The floor is $16 m below the cap. Revenues increased by 9% from last year and if there had been hockey this year, the cap would have risen to $70.2 m and the floor would have been been $56.2 m.

But then again, I might blind and brainwashed.

the PA has no power. history has proven that. the players have already conceeded that they need to give up alot to keep the league stable (i base this on their initial proposal) but this is not a negotiation this is bettman publicly beating the PA into submission. why cant he sit in the room with the PA and negotiate? he has waivered from his initial offer, so he clearly is willing to negotiate. this is a dirty way to do business.

I'm constantly astounded by what I read on here. How are players dictating anything? Both sides are negotiating the terms they want. If they can't agree, they don't work and the bosses can see if fans will come to their arenas to watch minor leaguers or book the circus into town 41 times a year.
- Canada Cup

They are not! By ignoring the NHL's offers and making up thier own they sure are trying though.

Give me a good reason why Fehr can't work off the NHL's last proposal and try to find some common ground?

I'll tell you why. Fehr has no intention of ending this yet. His strategy has clearly been to do nothing and force the NHL to negotiate with themselves. His offers were never serious and he wanted them to be rejected so he could spin it that the NHL doesn't want to negotiate.

Although that revenue growth will not happen as fast now and in fact may shrink due to the Canadian dollar.
- NightTrain_AlMo

Canadian dollar is not the key factor in revenue growth. Three of the top five revenue teams are American.

They are not! By ignoring the NHL's offers and making up thier own they sure are trying though.

Give me a good reason why Fehr can't work off the NHL's last proposal and try to find some common ground?

I'll tell you why. Fehr has no intention of ending this yet. His strategy has clearly been to do nothing and force the NHL to negotiate with themselves. His offers were never serious and he wanted them to be rejected so he could spin it that the NHL doesn't want to negotiate.
- steveb12344

It's called negotiating.

They are not! By ignoring the NHL's offers and making up thier own they sure are trying though.

Give me a good reason why Fehr can't work off the NHL's last proposal and try to find some common ground?

I'll tell you why. Fehr has no intention of ending this yet. His strategy has clearly been to do nothing and force the NHL to negotiate with themselves. His offers were never serious and he wanted them to be rejected so he could spin it that the NHL doesn't want to negotiate.
- steveb12344

fehr is inching along with his contracts to try and get the best one. blame bettman for not sitting down and in a room and negotiating with the PA so that both sides are happy. bettman has waivered from his initial contract so he is willing to negotiate but just with himself. yes the players admit they need to give up alot (i base this off their initial offer where they were willing to give up hundreds of millions of dollars) but they just want to actually negotiate.

It's called negotiating.
- Canada Cup

Actually from Fehr's side it's called NOT NEGOTIATING! His alternate contract offers are just a diversion.

Again: WHY COULD HE NOT JUST NEGOTIATE OFF OF THE NHL'S OFFER?

If he did, this thing would be over already.

FIRST!!!














Any Habs rumours?!?














nuff said

FIRST!!!














Any Habs rumours?!?














nuff said
- Skalapy

What a bunch of bs. I wonder how many concussions Johnny Bower got playing with no helmet and mask against the likes of JFJ senior.

Who cares about this crap anyway. I play real hockey so I don't have to live vicariously through these rumours like you losers.

fehr is inching along with his contracts to try and get the best one. blame bettman for not sitting down and in a room and negotiating with the PA so that both sides are happy. bettman has waivered from his initial contract so he is willing to negotiate but just with himself. yes the players admit they need to give up alot (i base this off their initial offer where they were willing to give up hundreds of millions of dollars) but they just want to actually negotiate.
- joshs

That is the problem. It is unfortunate for everybody that he doesn't realize that he already got it, and rejected it without even making an effort to negotiate it into a little better deal for the players.

The players will rue the day they ever got into bed with the Fehr Bros.

Actually from Fehr's side it's called NOT NEGOTIATING! His alternate contract offers are just a diversion.

Again: WHY COULD HE NOT JUST NEGOTIATE OFF OF THE NHL'S OFFER?

If he did, this thing would be over already.
- steveb12344

So, the point is that you don't like the way he is negotiating. If you are a member of the PA, you really shouldndo something.

Why are his offers diversions and the owners real? If not negotiating properly is NOT NEGOTIATING, what is not agreeing to meet and cancelling a month's worth of games called?

Both sides are playing hard ball. I'm sorry you find it so upsetting.

That is the problem. It is unfortunate for everybody that he doesn't realize that he already got it, and rejected it without even making an effort to negotiate it into a little better deal for the players.

The players will rue the day they ever got into bed with the Fehr Bros.
- steveb12344

this is not a negotiation. the PA has no power. this is bettman publically beating the PA in submission.