How much is he really costing the players? Don't their contracts get tolled if the season is cancelled?
- Snotbubbles

On average about 2.4 million per player.

(frank) that racket! Now would be the ideal time for ALL fans to come together and start a real movement to lock out the NHL! On the surface it may sound ridiculously unachievable, but even if just half of the current NHL fans would agree to throw this back in the faces of the NHL and the NHLPA by boycotting ALL games next season, or whenever this season might start, we as fans could really stick it them and let them know we're tired of this garbage and arent' going to put up with it any more.

If something doesn't get done on the fans level, they'll continue to pull this crap every contract. It's time for all of us to take a stand. Do whats right and whats in the fans long term best interests.

LOCK OUT the NHL! I mean (frank)ing think about it, they're not worried about us, we're not even a second, third or even foruth thought in this whole thing, they are taking us fans for granted to the point of complete neglegence. They think this is ALL about them and are not showing any regard whatsoever for us. How sick and pathetic are we to sit by and allow our favorite sport to dictate the terms of our own enjoyment?!

The time is now people, LOCK OUT the NHL!

they lose a contract year if there is no season
- Symba.007

So for example, if Player X signed a 5 year deal this offseason and the season is cancelled, he now only has 4 years left? Is that right, I don't think so/know.

Because accepting the owners' last proposal would leave them better off, financially, than holding out for a better offer and losing the entire season. Or even half of the season.

That's it, in a nutshell. Don't worry about record revenues (which is not the same as profits, by the way). Don't think about who is right and who is wrong. Don't think about how contracts have already been signed. It is all irrelevant.

What is best for the players? Taking the deal now.
- Atomic Wedgie

Er, thank you for the lessons Wedgie, I understand the difference between revenues and profits. But there are no profits without revenues, and there are plenty of those that's my point. More than at any time in history.

And I disagree with your point. The players are all making money in Europe so what do they care. as far as i am concerned I hope they all go there. It won't hurt their pocket books as much and then the only ones who suffer are the owners. At the end of the day, until the owners learn they cannot make the players pay for their mistakes, this cycle will only continue to repeat itself. Don't forget this is why we had the last lockout, to get cost certainty to protect the owners from themselves. Didn't work, and here we are again.

So for example, if Player X signed a 5 year deal this offseason and the season is cancelled, he now only has 4 years left? Is that right, I don't think so/know.
- Snotbubbles

that's how it worked during the last lockout. Players lost that contract year.

so we are closer to having Lombardi Connolly and Komisarek off the books? Is this true? hmmm

Agreed, but it is owners, GMs who are as guilty of exploiting this as much, or more, than anyone. The players demand the world, but it is the owners who pay them.

Someone explain to me if you worked for a company that grew by 50% in 6 years with unprecidented revenues, would you accept a pay cut??? Not a chance. If they cut your year-end bonus despite these record revenues as they cried poor mouth, would you believe them? Again, not a chance. So to paraphase the players, why should they accept a pay cut?
- rebel

Never said it was right or fair, just said it was gonna happen. And the players need to be practical here, rather than ideological, or they will loose much for then the 10-12.5% the NHL had on the table.

Because accepting the owners' last proposal would leave them better off, financially, than holding out for a better offer and losing the entire season. Or even half of the season.

That's it, in a nutshell. Don't worry about record revenues (which is not the same as profits, by the way). Don't think about who is right and who is wrong. Don't think about how contracts have already been signed. It is all irrelevant.

What is best for the players? Taking the deal now.
- Atomic Wedgie

I agree with all of that and you have been saying it for a while. The question is then -- why are they prepared to throw theseason away?

Is it, as Mr Rockhead suggests, because they are dummm?

Is it because Don Fehr is dummmm? or evil or using them as pawns so he can get headlines?

It might be becuase they are pissed at being asked to take a pay cut (again) when revenues are increasing at record rates.

Maybe it is because they are pissed that they are paying the price for a broken financial system that results in more than half the franchises losing money even with the owners getting everything they asked for in the last CBA.

And maybe they realize that until things are changed the owners are going to come back at the end of every CBA to peel another chunk of salary away to put into their own salaries.

so we are closer to having Lombardi Connolly and Komisarek off the books? Is this true? hmmm
- Popcorn Kid

yup... contract term still ticks away... just no money for it.

I agree with all of that and you have been saying it for a while. The question is then -- why are they prepared to throw theseason away?

Is it, as Mr Rockhead suggests, because they are dummm?

Is it because Don Fehr is dummmm? or evil or using them as pawns so he can get headlines?

It might be becuase they are pissed at being asked to take a pay cut (again) when revenues are increasing at record rates.

Maybe it is because they are pissed that they are paying the price for a broken financial system that results in more than half the franchises losing money even with the owners getting everything they asked for in the last CBA.

And maybe they realize that until things are changed the owners are going to come back at the end of every CBA to peel another chunk of salary away to put into their own salaries.
- Canada Cup

I will look at a guy like Igninla, who lost $7.5 Million last lockout and will lose another $7M this year.... that is a huge chunk of change to lose on principal.

(frank) that racket! Now would be the ideal time for ALL fans to come together and start a real movement to lock out the NHL! On the surface it may sound ridiculously unachievable, but even if just half of the current NHL fans would agree to throw this back in the faces of the NHL and the NHLPA by boycotting ALL games next season, or whenever this season might start, we as fans could really stick it them and let them know we're tired of this garbage and arent' going to put up with it any more.

If something doesn't get done on the fans level, they'll continue to pull this crap every contract. It's time for all of us to take a stand. Do whats right and whats in the fans long term best interests.

LOCK OUT the NHL! I mean (frank)ing think about it, they're not worried about us, we're not even a second, third or even foruth thought in this whole thing, they are taking us fans for granted to the point of complete neglegence. They think this is ALL about them and are not showing any regard whatsoever for us. How sick and pathetic are we to sit by and allow our favorite sport to dictate the terms of our own enjoyment?!

The time is now people, LOCK OUT the NHL!
- MnGump

Says the guy who is a fan of the team whose owner and GM is the epitomy of hipocracy due to the Parise and Suter signings.

(frank) that racket! Now would be the ideal time for ALL fans to come together and start a real movement to lock out the NHL! On the surface it may sound ridiculously unachievable, but even if just half of the current NHL fans would agree to throw this back in the faces of the NHL and the NHLPA by boycotting ALL games next season, or whenever this season might start, we as fans could really stick it them and let them know we're tired of this garbage and arent' going to put up with it any more.

If something doesn't get done on the fans level, they'll continue to pull this crap every contract. It's time for all of us to take a stand. Do whats right and whats in the fans long term best interests.

LOCK OUT the NHL! I mean (frank)ing think about it, they're not worried about us, we're not even a second, third or even foruth thought in this whole thing, they are taking us fans for granted to the point of complete neglegence. They think this is ALL about them and are not showing any regard whatsoever for us. How sick and pathetic are we to sit by and allow our favorite sport to dictate the terms of our own enjoyment?!

The time is now people, LOCK OUT the NHL!
- MnGump

Says the guy who is a fan of the team whose owner and GM is the epitomy of hipocracy due to the Parise and Suter signings.

Says the guy who is a fan of the team whose owner and GM is the epitomy of hipocracy due to the Parise and Suter signings.
- rebel

Just because you are a fan of a team does not mean you have to agree with everything they do.

That would be akin to saying I am happy to having Gomez and his contract on my team, and to state otherwise, would be hypocrisy.

So for example, if Player X signed a 5 year deal this offseason and the season is cancelled, he now only has 4 years left? Is that right, I don't think so/know.
- Snotbubbles

Yes the players are losing a years pay

Just because you are a fan of a team does not mean you have to agree with everything they do.

That would be akin to saying I am happy to having Gomez and his contract on my team, and to state otherwise, would be hypocrisy.
- JDJ

i'm sure 99% of the Wild fans were thrilled with those signings.

that's how it worked during the last lockout. Players lost that contract year.
- Symba.007

Then lock them out and don't combe back till Gomez is off the books, at least now he is getting paid for what he does every year absolutely nothing

i'm sure 99% of the Wild fans were thrilled with those signings.
- Fountain-San

I would be too, even if I think they were much too long.

Star players / impact players should always be getting the cash, I have zero issue with that. It is these tier 3 type players getting $4.5-5M a year on a long-term deal that is just stupid

yup... contract term still ticks away... just no money for it.
- Dozzer

great.. cancel away

I will look at a guy like Igninla, who lost $7.5 Million last lockout and will lose another $7M this year.... that is a huge chunk of change to lose on principal.
- JDJ

I agree but it's either principle or they can't do the math

I would be too, even if I think they were much too long.

Star players / impact players should always be getting the cash, I have zero issue with that. It is these tier 3 type players getting $4.5-5M a year on a long-term deal that is just stupid
- JDJ

without calling that Wild fan a name, i do agree that those two contracts, even for two star players, are an example of the problem.

just for the sheer amount and term, for two guys. NHL can't sustain itself with cash like that being doled out.

without calling that Wild fan a name, i do agree that those two contracts, even for two star players, are an example of the problem.

just for the sheer amount and term, for two guys. NHL can't sustain itself with cash like that being doled out.
- Fountain-San

A point not lost on the PA when Craig Leipold was part of the owners group that tabled a proposal calling for a roll back of the salaries on those two contracts

I agree but it's either principle or they can't do the math
- Canada Cup

It's emotion. They are letting emotion get in the way of cold, hard mathematics.

I get that they are pissed. They should be pissed. I'd be pissed.

Everything you have said about the owners being bastards, peeling away more and more, not honouring contracts they have signed, etc. is all true. 100%. Every word.

But it doesn't matter.

Only the math matters, in my humble opinion. The majority of players should not be concerned about the next CBA - they will be out of the league by then.

Look at the math. The math doesn't lie.

And then sign the NHL's offer.

It's emotion. They are letting emotion get in the way of cold, hard mathematics.

I get that they are pissed. They should be pissed. I'd be pissed.

Everything you have said about the owners being bastards, peeling away more and more, not honouring contracts they have signed, etc. is all true. 100%. Every word.

But it doesn't matter.

Only the math matters, in my humble opinion. The majority of players should not be concerned about the next CBA - they will be out of the league by then.

Look at the math. The math doesn't lie.

And then sign the NHLPA's offer.
- Atomic Wedgie

But the NHL want nothing to do with this proposal

Bettman should announce his plans of reducing the nhl to 24 teams next season and the offer on the table now is 40-60. This would get the attention of the greedy azzhole players who I used to love. The NHL is on the verge of a major facelift here and the greedy players are going to regret playing hardball. I hope they get what they deserve, 24 teams would leave many unemployed and the calibre of play what be about the same since a lot of dumb azz russians will stay home where they belong.

Er, thank you for the lessons Wedgie, I understand the difference between revenues and profits. But there are no profits without revenues, and there are plenty of those that's my point. More than at any time in history.

- rebel

"Record revenues" means absolutely nothing without comparing it to expenses.

If revenues went up by 200%, but expenses went up 2000%, do the record revenues matter?

And I disagree with your point. The players are all making money in Europe so what do they care. as far as i am concerned I hope they all go there. It won't hurt their pocket books as much and then the only ones who suffer are the owners. At the end of the day, until the owners learn they cannot make the players pay for their mistakes, this cycle will only continue to repeat itself. Don't forget this is why we had the last lockout, to get cost certainty to protect the owners from themselves. Didn't work, and here we are again.
- rebel

Players in Europe are making a small fraction of what they would be making in the NHL. Factor in the fact that they have to pay their own insurance, and many of them will barely break even.

The owners won't suffer. The owners will not declare bankruptcy (which a majority of professional athletes will do after they retire).

As for the players, the average NHL salary in 2004-05 was $1.46 million.

The average NHL salary in 2011-12 was $2.4 million.

The players don't mind the cycle continuing.