NBC can't control everything and they knew when the TV deal was signed the status of the CBA.

As far as delaying the start of the season...Big mkt teams wouldn't like it but really what pro sports season isn't too long besides the NFL??

It has ben brought up in the past that the NHL in the US would be better off starting after the World Series is over...or in November.

As far as your other point....Not going to answer for anyone else but the #'s don't lie most teams don't turn an opperating profit.
- Al

>Al, have Canadian NHL fans turned on the players?
>Lots of stats starting to pop-up everywhere -- not sure if any are accurate, but things like: Only 4% of NHL players were in the NHL during the last lock-out, along with the comment, "So, how are THESE players giving back AGAIN?"
>Another north of the border stat: 240 NHL players employed before the last lock-out lost their NHL jobs, never to return to the NHL
>Seems that since the 50/50 offer came from the owners, (tricked up or not) Canadian fans have started to direct their anger/frustration toward the players:
"Union, what union? These guys have no problem going over to Europe to take some other hockey player's job and put him out of work."
>What are you hearing from Canada?

Not much of anything...

I don't want to get into a Union discussion so to speak but I have one rule that I always follow...

The employer/owner is the last person to lose.

The players know they aren't going to win it just a question of how much they give in and more importantly when and how much they will have to give back the next time.

The structure of the relationship bewtween players and owners needs an overhaul and that will take time.

My guess is if nothing fruitful happens in the next week you will see many more players going overseas to play.

Kane just signed today and Toews/Sharp/Hossa and others won't be far behind.

The folks up North will generally be more upset and they will blame whomever makes them feel the best. But in the end they will be standing in line for tickets once this season begins....

I'm in the minority but I think there is at least a 50% chance there won't be hockey this season.

On Twitter@AlCimaglia

Not much of anything...

I don't want to get into a Union discussion so to speak but I have one rule that I always follow...

The employer/owner is the last person to lose.

The players know they aren't going to win it just a question of how much they give in and more importantly when and how much they will have to give back the next time.

The structure of the relationship bewtween players and owners needs an overhaul and that will take time.

My guess is if nothing fruitful happens in the next week you will see many more players going overseas to play.

Kane just signed today and Toews/Sharp/Hossa and others won't be far behind.

The folks up North will generally be more upset and they will blame whomever makes them feel the best. But in the end they will be standing in line for tickets once this season begins....

I'm in the minority but I think there is at least a 50% chance there won't be hockey this season.

On Twitter@AlCimaglia
- Al

It's just so hard to believe that any of the Canadian teams, or Wirtz and several other US teams - or any of the players (except maybe some of the Russians), have any desire to lose a whole season.

I know it only takes 7 out of 30 owners to force a continuation of the lock-out, but....

>Al, have Canadian NHL fans turned on the players?
>Lots of stats starting to pop-up everywhere -- not sure if any are accurate, but things like: Only 4% of NHL players were in the NHL during the last lock-out, along with the comment, "So, how are THESE players giving back AGAIN?"
>Another north of the border stat: 240 NHL players employed before the last lock-out lost their NHL jobs, never to return to the NHL
>Seems that since the 50/50 offer came from the owners, (tricked up or not) Canadian fans have started to direct their anger/frustration toward the players:
"Union, what union? These guys have no problem going over to Europe to take some other hockey player's job and put him out of work."
>What are you hearing from Canada?
- SnapitUpstairs

I am about as anti-union as anyone, but the key thing to remember about what's happening right now is that the players are locked out, they are NOT on strike. So it's not like that are refusing to play here only to go play over seas. The players wanted to play under the old CBA while negotiations continued, it is the owners who have prevented games fom happening to this point. So I have no problem with the players seeking employment elsewhere. I hope they all do it.

Last time around, I was 100 % in the owners corner. The owners effectively "broke" the union, and more or less, got what they wanted. If what the owners wanted turns out to not have been what they needed...(frank) 'em. This time around, I say screw the owners. It's not up to the players to rescue the owners from themselves.

Not much of anything...

I don't want to get into a Union discussion so to speak but I have one rule that I always follow...

The employer/owner is the last person to lose.

The players know they aren't going to win it just a question of how much they give in and more importantly when and how much they will have to give back the next time.

The structure of the relationship bewtween players and owners needs an overhaul and that will take time.

My guess is if nothing fruitful happens in the next week you will see many more players going overseas to play.

Kane just signed today and Toews/Sharp/Hossa and others won't be far behind.

The folks up North will generally be more upset and they will blame whomever makes them feel the best. But in the end they will be standing in line for tickets once this season begins....

I'm in the minority but I think there is at least a 50% chance there won't be hockey this season.

On Twitter@AlCimaglia
- Al

>I, too, fear the season could be lost
>Hope JJ is correct about the 12/1 start date
>I also really feel for people who depend on NHL hockey to earn dollars that are not players and owners
>Both sides need to put the game and the fans ahead of themselves
>Think if this goes for a long time, some owners and franchises will be hit hard, too

Looks like former Blues President of Hockey Operations John Davidson is set to sign on with Columbus...seems like, with all the turnover in the Hawks front office, this is someone they should have maybe shown some interest in. Stan and McD apparently disagree.

Looks like former Blues President of Hockey Operations John Davidson is set to sign on with Columbus...seems like, with all the turnover in the Hawks front office, this is someone they should have maybe shown some interest in. Stan and McD apparently disagree.
- Ogilthorpe2

>Good call on JD.
>Thought he could have helped the Hawks
>Seems like a lot of good players found their way to the Blues when he was there
>Probably "too strong" an exec for McD's liking

Not much of anything...

I don't want to get into a Union discussion so to speak but I have one rule that I always follow...

The employer/owner is the last person to lose.

The players know they aren't going to win it just a question of how much they give in and more importantly when and how much they will have to give back the next time.

The structure of the relationship bewtween players and owners needs an overhaul and that will take time. But the owners are convinced everyone will come running back like sheep just like before...

My guess is if nothing fruitful happens in the next week you will see many more players going overseas to play.

Kane just signed today and Toews/Sharp/Hossa and others won't be far behind.

The folks up North will generally be more upset and they will blame whomever makes them feel the best. But in the end they will be standing in line for tickets once this season begins....

I'm in the minority but I think there is at least a 50% chance there won't be hockey this season.

On Twitter@AlCimaglia
- Al

Al in response to earlier I could certainly see them just moving the game to a later date perhaps the weekend after the superbowl or something like that. But w/ all of the great build up the Classic has been getting w/ 24/7 on HBO and the growth the league has experienced that its just pathetic that they're shooting themselves in the foot w/ this crap. The players have offered to play and keep negociating...


What's w/ the TV deal w/ NBC - aren't they still on the hook for the contract even if there's no games...or do they forfeit some of that money?

As far as the season being in danger - I think the owners are just that stupid just to spite everyone that they'd do it. Real shame this league is finally making some inroads w/ the Hawks and Bruins getting back to the top and now the Kings getting their first cup.

>I, too, fear the season could be lost
>Hope JJ is correct about the 12/1 start date
>I also really feel for people who depend on NHL hockey to earn dollars that are not players and owners
>Both sides need to put the game and the fans ahead of themselves
>Think if this goes for a long time, some owners and franchises will be hit hard, too
- SnapitUpstairs

Ain't gonna happen - and SHOULDN'T happen - they both need to deal with their own best interests, collectively and individually.

What they DO need to do is understand WHAT IS in their best collective and individual interests - and it's NOT blowing a whole (or a major part of a) season.

It's just so hard to believe that any of the Canadian teams, or Wirtz and several other US teams - or any of the players (except maybe some of the Russians), have any desire to lose a whole season.

I know it only takes 7 out of 30 owners to force a continuation of the lock-out, but....
- StLBravesFan

I think Wirtz and other owners don't want to lose the season.
But the only way the owners don't get what they want is if they are not unified.

As far as players....Many big name pro PA players were at the 17th-18th tee box when the last lockout happened and they still took it on the chin and never made the lost $$ back.

Now the PA has younger leadership and I have a strong feeling they are as willing or more so to try to prove their point.

On Twitter@AlCimaglia

Al in response to earlier I could certainly see them just moving the game to a later date perhaps the weekend after the superbowl or something like that. But w/ all of the great build up the Classic has been getting w/ 24/7 on HBO and the growth the league has experienced that its just pathetic that they're shooting themselves in the foot w/ this crap. The players have offered to play and keep negociating...


What's w/ the TV deal w/ NBC - aren't they still on the hook for the contract even if there's no games...or do they forfeit some of that money?

As far as the season being in danger - I think the owners are just that stupid just to spite everyone that they'd do it. Real shame this league is finally making some inroads w/ the Hawks and Bruins getting back to the top and now the Kings getting their first cup.
- DK002

I too was hoping the players would play and the season would go on as negotiations followed...

But all the leverage would shift to the players in that case. If they didn't like how the negotiations were going they could strike.

I don't know if Fehr would have signed an agreement to continue the season no matter how things went going at the bargaining table.

>Good call on JD.
>Thought he could have helped the Hawks
>Seems like a lot of good players found their way to the Blues when he was there
>Probably "too strong" an exec for McD's liking
- SnapitUpstairs

Interestingly, the Hawks don't have a President of hockey operations—instead their structure calls for an overall President who has no hockey experience or acumen whatsoever.

The closest thing the Hawks have to Davidson's role is an 80 year old, retired HOF coach who lives in Florida.

In order to have a true President of hockey operations, McDonough would have to go or be demoted/curtailed to merely being business/marketing. Curtailment is allegedly what is supposed to happen "unofficially." But my experience with those sorts of moves is they don't typically take root.

They can "curtail" McDonough but who does Bowman report to on hockey ops, other than his father who lives in Florida or Rocky? And Younger Bowman isn't exactly a super-experienced hockey guy either.

Someone is hesistant right now to do the real heavy lifiting of truly fixing the organization. That could change however post-CBA.

Interestingly, the Hawks don't have a President of hockey operations—instead their structure calls for an overall President who has no hockey experience or acumen whatsoever.

The closest thing the Hawks have to Davidson's role is an 80 year old, retired HOF coach who lives in Florida.

In order to have a true President of hockey operations, McDonough would have to go or be demoted/curtailed to merely being business/marketing. Curtailment is allegedly what is supposed to happen "unofficially." But my experience with those sorts of moves is they don't typically take root.

They can "curtail" McDonough but who does Bowman report to on hockey ops, other than his father who lives in Florida or Rocky? And Younger Bowman isn't exactly a super-experienced hockey guy either.

Someone is hesistant right now to do the real heavy lifiting of truly fixing the organization. That could change however post-CBA.
- John Jaeckel

McD could have been hiring his replacement if he hired JD and I don't think he would do that unless he was forced to.

Been a while but it is good to somewhat talk hockey again. Rick, loved the post and I am in the same boat as you. I think the two sides are a lot closer than people realize. My worry is this, everyday that this season is locked out, the fans become more irritable and less passionate about the sport. The NHL was really becoming relevant again and I feel like the players and owners should have driven that point throughout all negotiations. Players want what they want and Owners want what they want, but the issue is that you can argue and negotiate all you want but your not going to have fans pack the seats and turn into games on television.

JJ & Al,

Any truth to Isle's moving to Brooklyn that's spreading like a wild fire on twitter?

JJ & Al,

Any truth to Isle's moving to Brooklyn that's spreading like a wild fire on twitter?
- Beaver-Warrior

NY Times says done deal.

I thought Barclays had a very small hockey configuration.

NY Times says done deal.

I thought Barclays had a very small hockey configuration.
- StLBravesFan

14,500..

Yep, small.

Interestingly, the Hawks don't have a President of hockey operations—instead their structure calls for an overall President who has no hockey experience or acumen whatsoever.

The closest thing the Hawks have to Davidson's role is an 80 year old, retired HOF coach who lives in Florida.

In order to have a true President of hockey operations, McDonough would have to go or be demoted/curtailed to merely being business/marketing. Curtailment is allegedly what is supposed to happen "unofficially." But my experience with those sorts of moves is they don't typically take root.

They can "curtail" McDonough but who does Bowman report to on hockey ops, other than his father who lives in Florida or Rocky? And Younger Bowman isn't exactly a super-experienced hockey guy either.

Someone is hesistant right now to do the real heavy lifiting of truly fixing the organization. That could change however post-CBA.
- John Jaeckel

There are a lot of different organizational structure used with NHL franchises...

But you bring up a sticky and interesting point ....Scotty Bowman is the straw that stirs the hockey ops side and he reports to his son.....

14,500..

Yep, small.
- Beaver-Warrior

They'll probably still have a hard time selling-out the building until the team improves on the ice.

JJ & Al,

Any truth to Isle's moving to Brooklyn that's spreading like a wild fire on twitter?
- Beaver-Warrior

If BD Gallof says there is a good chance on Twitter than I would thinks so...

It's not a new story and Wang is tired of losing $$ and battling local government.

But I have not been on Twitter or have spoken to anyone to confirm or deny.

They'll probably still have a hard time selling-out the building until the team improves on the ice.
- DarthKane

That team is one more player away from having some playoff hope as long as they don't get ba lot of injuries to key guys.

Their current rink is probably the worst in the NHL.

They'll probably still have a hard time selling-out the building until the team improves on the ice.
- DarthKane

You have to wonder what the ticket prices will be to turn a profit, let alone break even.

That team is one more player away from having some playoff hope as long as they don't get ba lot of injuries to key guys.

Their current rink is probably the worst in the NHL.
- Al

I disagree, I think they are at least a few players away from even being considered in any playoff discussion. They have some decent forwards (Tavares, Moulson and Nielsen). But this also have more than their fair share of disappointments (Okposo, Bailey, Grabner) in addition to the loss of PA Parenteau (I wouldn't consider Boyes an adequate replacement). Aside from Streit their defense is terrible, and while Nabokov has been an improvement in net for them he's still not enough.

I disagree, I think they are at least a few players away from even being considered in any playoff discussion. They have some decent forwards (Tavares, Moulson and Nielsen). But this also have more than their fair share of disappointments (Okposo, Bailey, Grabner) in addition to the loss of PA Parenteau (I wouldn't consider Boyes an adequate replacement). Aside from Streit their defense is terrible, and while Nabokov has been an improvement in net for them he's still not enough.
- DarthKane

They are a difference maker away...From creating some excitement and staying in the playoff hunt

The Hawks needed to get a Toews and Kane...

Tavares is a game changer and they need another.

The Isles need to play games that matter in late Febraury and March and then the fans will start to come back.

They are a difference maker away...From creating some excitement and staying in the playoff hunt

The Hawks needed to get a Toews and Kane...

Tavares is a game changer and they need another.

The Isles need to play games that matter in late Febraury and March and then the fans will start to come back.
- Al

Indications that the Islander franchise was going downhill many years ago - per Glen Healy when he played for them:

1) 1991 when they were playing the Penguins in the playoffs and won Game 6 at home forcing Game 7 - did not have any flights booked and were forced to buy tickets to fly Commercial out of 2 NY area airports (half the team on each flight).

2) Players were forced to pay for all the soap, shampoo, shaving cream etc in the dressing room shower area. Each guy had to buy their own kit which came in a Zip Lok bag.
(Players frequently subsituted Windex in the trainer's hairspray bottle in retaliation).