name 17 other billionaires that would take on the burden of losing millions of dollars a year just to own a NHL team. i bet you cant name 1. yet i can name 800 AHL'ers that would gladly play for more money.
- joshs

name 17 billionaires.. ?

most franchises are owned by ownership groups.

but to answer your question.. there's been probably what, 3 legitimate billionaires who tried to purchase the coyotes over the last 5 years? and all backed out, due to being forced to keep the team in the desert?

What you're describing is the idea of replacements for the current players, and I wish you'd stop bothering us with that nonsense.

It isn't going to happen.
- Leeman4Gilmour

its a supply and demand point. it would be hard to find 1 billionaire to take the place of any 1 of these 17 billionaires who are losing millions let alone find 17 of them.
also everybody says its not about the money but about the fact that the players are the only one's giving. name 1 players that lost money from being in the NHL last year. just 1. i can name 17 owners that lost money 8 of them from just doing paying to the cap floor. using this logic who should have to give to the others demands?

name 17 billionaires.. ?

most franchises are owned by ownership groups.

but to answer your question.. there's been probably what, 3 legitimate billionaires who tried to purchase the coyotes over the last 5 years? and all backed out, due to being forced to keep the team in the desert?
- joel878

name a city in North America (excluding Mexico) that is bigger than phoenix that does not have an NHL team?

whats wrong with phoenix? huge population

yeah, because Brandon Prust gives a poop about labour relations. dude wants to get PAID. and you say the NHL keeps locking them out? gee, maybe the union got this whole ball rolling when they walked out in 1992?

do you know why the league keeps locking the players out? MARKET CORRECTION. go take a peek at what players were earning before the last lockout. take a peek at what players are earning now compared to the other pro sports in America. they get the highest percentage by a mile. 50% is an insult to them, but it's OK for their bosses to make 43% right?

and you want to talk about circumventing the cap? do you honestly think that the owners are responsible for that? you don't think it's player agents who conceived of these deals? so what's an owner to do? not acquire talent and let his fanbase and TV audience dwindle based on principle?

you, sir, need an economics lesson, because you have no clue what you're talking about.
- scotch_tape

you're just another chump swinging off the back of the nhl pr machine.

i personally know a couple of brandon prusts. they're both playing in the ahl, making a quarter of what they normally make, and are 100% on board with the union and planting their feet this time around. look at it however you want..

it's owners who sign the checks fella, do you think a player agent walks into a gm's office drafts up his own players contract, and signs it off? there's a sense of responsibility that comes with shipping out the dollars.

the owners as a group had once chance to twist arms and force into place the economic system they wanted this generation of players to play under, and if we're to take the nhl and people like you seriously, they blew it. if the nhl made 3 billion in revenues last season, and didn't make any money off of it, they (frank)ed up...? making the (frank) up the players to correct isn't going to fly, because without that group of players they're lucky if their revenues break 1 billion last season.

They proposed three offers, each one meeting the glorious, indisputable 50/50 fairness standard that most people have arbitrarily set.

The NHL rejected each one in under an hour.
- Leeman4Gilmour

Nah, the players aren't spoiled or anything

They are E-M-P-L-O-Y-E-E-S!!!

funny because this happens all the time in real life. unions are asked to take paycuts to keep the company's afloat. these are people who make 50K a year. your right its not about the money its about the players being manipulated by their agents to feel some sort of entitlement.
the owners are the league...the action of hockey is the product...the players are the meat.
players have come and gone. the teams have remained (maybe moved but never abolished).
name a city larger than phoenix in north america that does not already have a hockey team.
- joshs

yeah, they are. and come the 2nd or 3rd time they're asked to take a paycut, the unions start fighting back, and wondering why it's always their problem to fix.

the players do have some sense of entitlement. you pay to watch them, and the nhl makes revenues based off of their entertainment value. you couldn't be more wrong.

your point is meaningless. there are cities a quarter the size of phoenix that would be a more meaningfull hockey market in a heartbeat. it's not about the size of phoenix.. it's about it being in the middle of the (frank)ing DESERT. no one living in a 24/7 sun climate gives a poop about hockey. they've had a 15 year trial run there to prove it?

whats wrong with phoenix? huge population
- joshs

if you're legitimately asking me whats wrong with the city of phoenix as a hockey market, you need to do a little eye opening. this should be relatively easy.

competitive franchises in other sports more desirable in warm climates than hockey + 15 years of trying to shove it down those peoples throats.. and still complete failure?

wake up.

you're just another chump swinging off the back of the nhl pr machine.

i personally know a couple of brandon prusts. they're both playing in the ahl, making a quarter of what they normally make, and are 100% on board with the union and planting their feet this time around. look at it however you want..

it's owners who sign the checks fella, do you think a player agent walks into a gm's office drafts up his own players contract, and signs it off? there's a sense of responsibility that comes with shipping out the dollars.

the owners as a group had once chance to twist arms and force into place the economic system they wanted this generation of players to play under, and if we're to take the nhl and people like you seriously, they blew it. if the nhl made 3 billion in revenues last season, and didn't make any money off of it, they (frank)ed up...? making the (frank) up the players to correct isn't going to fly, because without that group of players they're lucky if their revenues break 1 billion last season.
- joel878

please relax. its not a personal argument. it is a friendly debate that in the end does not make any bit of difference. teams have to be competitive under any CBA. now that CBA is up and it had glaring problems. dude people will watch any level of talent. the league was not always this talented yet people still came to watch. the owners/cities are the league...the action of hockey is the product...the players are the meat.

please relax. its not a personal argument. it is a friendly debate that in the end does not make any bit of difference. teams have to be competitive under any CBA. now that CBA is up and it had glaring problems. dude people will watch any level of talent. the league was not always this talented yet people still came to watch. the owners/cities are the league...the action of hockey is the product...the players are the meat.
- joshs

you're entitled to feel however you want.

i as the average hockey fan, am more jacked about watching football and baseball games than i am about seeking out ahl games to watch below average players complete for a meaningless championship.

the players are what makes the nhl what it is. if crosby, ovechkin, stamkos and so forth have been playing in russia since the last lockout.. the nhl's revenues are a third of what they would be, the game has not grown the way it has, and it's even lost some hardcores.

even watching junior hockey, there are star players on your team you watch passionately, and follow their careers post junior. to suggest the players are meaningless to the nhl is braindead. i, like most.. would happily watch russian games with big name players before trying to get on board with nhl games full of hacks. that's the reality of it.

yeah, they are. and come the 2nd or 3rd time they're asked to take a paycut, the unions start fighting back, and wondering why it's always their problem to fix.

the players do have some sense of entitlement. you pay to watch them, and the nhl makes revenues based off of their entertainment value. you couldn't be more wrong.

your point is meaningless. there are cities a quarter the size of phoenix that would be a more meaningfull hockey market in a heartbeat. it's not about the size of phoenix.. it's about it being in the middle of the (frank)ing DESERT. no one living in a 24/7 sun climate gives a poop about hockey. they've had a 15 year trial run there to prove it?
- joel878

the paycut argument is null and void because if that salaries were close to where the paycut was then there wouldnt be a lockout. salaries inflated 40% after the pay cut. lets go through the history. how did somebody first make money playing hockey? some rich guys saw that hockey could be a marketable sport and offered people to play it. the owners are the league. without them you have a bunch of fri-guys at mcdonalds that can shoot a hockey puck fast. psst not every canadian team made a profit last year. so how do you explain that? the problem with phoenix was no superstar free agent wanted to go there to make the team watchable because you feel like your team is subpar with the rest of the league. we call this the sidney crosby/ovechkin effect. i give shane doan alot of credit for being loyal.

you're entitled to feel however you want.

i as the average hockey fan, am more jacked about watching football and baseball games than i am about seeking out ahl games to watch below average players complete for a meaningless championship.

the players are what makes the nhl what it is. if crosby, ovechkin, stamkos and so forth have been playing in russia since the last lockout.. the nhl's revenues are a third of what they would be, the game has not grown the way it has, and it's even lost some hardcores.

even watching junior hockey, there are star players on your team you watch passionately, and follow their careers post junior. to suggest the players are meaningless to the nhl is braindead. i, like most.. would happily watch russian games with big name players before trying to get on board with nhl games full of hacks. that's the reality of it.
- joel878

99% of fans follow the teams. i followed my team for 20 years. alot of players have come and gone.

99% of fans follow the teams. i followed my team for 20 years. alot of players have come and gone.
- joshs

don't sit there and act like you don't know the names on the back of the jerseys.

i'd love some evidence to support your 99% theory, because it's complete BS.

whats wrong with phoenix? huge population
- joshs

The NHL would be further ahead to expand TO EUROPE. That's what wrong with Phoenix!

if you're legitimately asking me whats wrong with the city of phoenix as a hockey market, you need to do a little eye opening. this should be relatively easy.

competitive franchises in other sports more desirable in warm climates than hockey + 15 years of trying to shove it down those peoples throats.. and still complete failure?

wake up.
- joel878

where did all the phenominal free agents go the last couple of years? either to big markets or to teams to create dynastys. we need a cap where players dont have the options like....either go to NYR and make 5 mill a year or go to phoenix and make 7. we need a cap where its either go to NYR and make league minimun or go to phoenix and make 5 mil a year.

99% of fans follow the teams. i followed my team for 20 years. alot of players have come and gone.
- joshs

Counterpoint: the CFL vs. the NFL

don't sit there and act like you don't know the names on the back of the jerseys.

i'd love some evidence to support your 99% theory, because it's complete BS.
- joel878

yes that is a figure that i pulled out of my head. what % of hockey fans do you think follow the team over a individual player? yes i recognize the players. they do a great job and get rewarded excellently for it. even if they made 17% less they would still be doing excellently. not saying they would have to but just saying.

where did all the phenominal free agents go the last couple of years? either to big markets or to teams to create dynastys. we need a cap where players dont have the options like....either go to NYR and make 5 mill a year or go to phoenix and make 7. we need a cap where its either go to NYR and make league minimun or go to phoenix and make 5 mil a year.
- joshs

wrong. we need teams like phoenix to either fold, or move to markets where they actually have a legitimate chance at turning a profit. and when the writing is on the wall, the league need not be said franchises life support, and foot all the bills while said franchise continues to bury itself in bottomless money pit. correct this issue, and then maybe everyone else will legitimately take the nhl seriously when it says it's own economic system is not performing up to par.

yes that is a figure that i pulled out of my head. what % of hockey fans do you think follow the team over a individual player? yes i recognize the players. they do a great job and get rewarded excellently for it. even if they made 17% less they would still be doing excellently. not saying they would have to but just saying.
- joshs

i know alot of people who claim to be hardcore fans of the team, and don't know any players whatsoever. they also never watch a game, buy anything hockey related.. or really give a poop in the end. they love their team when they hear they won last night on the drive to work.

hardcore hockey fans know their teams, they're pumped when they get a player, and their gutted when they lose a certain player. cujo leaves toronto and goes to detroit, leaf fans everywhere weren't going .. "who the (frank) was that guy, who cares? i love the team.. " they were gutted.

it's the name on the back of the jerseys that make the team everyone tunes in to watch.. you'd find out pretty fast if you had to trade in myers, stafford, pomminville, vanek, etc.. for a bunch of soup cans from the minors. i give it a week before even you turned around and said this was bullpoop.

wrong. we need teams like phoenix to either fold, or move to markets where they actually have a legitimate chance at turning a profit. and when the writing is on the wall, the league need not be said franchises life support, and foot all the bills while said franchise continues to bury itself in bottomless money pit. correct this issue, and then maybe everyone else will legitimately take the nhl seriously when it says it's own economic system is not performing up to par.
- joel878

thats some 30 NHL brothers out of a job. 30 less AHL players. the coaches. training staff. dentist. the business around the arena would all make way less money. the vendors, janitors, ticket people and scouting staff all without a job. i think thats cold my friend but if your ok with that then i see the mentality of PA supporters.

i know alot of people who claim to be hardcore fans of the team, and don't know any players whatsoever. they also never watch a game, buy anything hockey related.. or really give a poop in the end. they love their team when they hear they won last night on the drive to work.

hardcore hockey fans know their teams, they're pumped when they get a player, and their gutted when they lose a certain player. cujo leaves toronto and goes to detroit, leaf fans everywhere weren't going .. "who the (frank) was that guy, who cares? i love the team.. " they were gutted.

it's the name on the back of the jerseys that make the team everyone tunes in to watch.. you'd find out pretty fast if you had to trade in myers, stafford, pomminville, vanek, etc.. for a bunch of soup cans from the minors. i give it a week before even you turned around and said this was bullpoop.
- joel878

ha soup cans!

thats some 30 NHL brothers out of a job. 30 less AHL players. the coaches. training staff. dentist. the business around the arena would all make way less money. the vendors, janitors, ticket people and scouting staff all without a job. i think thats cold my friend but if your ok with that then i see the mentality of PA supporters.
- joshs

it's the reality of it dude, but which way do you want it? incorporating revenue sharing systems which are financially funding teams that have been religiously losing money for a decade.. are an issue?

not to mention how dramatic that was. there have been more than one group interested in purchasing the coyotes, if it meant they could get them out of the desert. there are tons of markets out there that could make money, and rich assed people interested in taking these teams to those markets. there's absoloutly no need to fold the phoenix coyotes.. just get them the (frank) out of the desert!

bettman and co. are arrogant enough to wait around for the billionaire who hates money enough to purchase the phoenix coyotes, sign up for losing 30 million dollars a season.. and have the remaining owners shell out money to keep the franchise operating in the meantime. now that's logic.

ha soup cans!
- joshs

You do realize that all of the top AHLers (and anyone with a two-way contract, in fact) would be ineligible to play, right?

Your fantasy of seeing replacement players is hilarious, but I don't think you've thought this through all that well.

There would be a significant decrease in the speed, athleticism, and skill in the game; you're not getting simply one step below NHL players. You're getting minor pros and amateurs.

They proposed three offers, each one meeting the glorious, indisputable 50/50 fairness standard that most people have arbitrarily set.

The NHL rejected each one in under an hour.
- Leeman4Gilmour

In 10 minutes!Owners playing hardball.Frank them!!!

You do realize that all of the top AHLers (and anyone with a two-way contract, in fact) would be ineligible to play, right?

Your fantasy of seeing replacement players is hilarious, but I don't think you've thought this through all that well.

There would be a significant decrease in the speed, athleticism, and skill in the game; you're not getting simply one step below NHL players. You're getting minor pros and amateurs.
- Leeman4Gilmour

huh? my 1st point was about supply and demand. i just like the term soup cans in reference to people. its very demeaning.