Well said Rain Man

- philco28

Thanks...all this talk and positioning is mind numbing. I just want to see hockey, and soon.

That way I can get back to idolizing my favorite hawk...Bolland

I see major issues with the NHL's latest proposal regarding the handling of existing SPCs > 5 years, where the team that signed the player bears the burden of the cap hit for the length of the contract if the player retires early.

1) I can't see how the NHLPA would support this. The player who retires is no longer being paid, yet the team that signed him can't spend that money on other players, effectively reducing the pool of money that can be spent on player contracts for teams that routinely spend to the cap.

2) Let's suppose Luongo suffers a career-ending injury this year, or, closer to home, assume Marian Hossa is unable to return and decides to retire this year after the injuries he suffered in last year's playoffs. Do they actually expect Chicago to sacrifice $5.2M, or whatever it is, of cap space for the next 9 years?

Someone explain it to me, makes no sense.
- MartiniMan

I think that is small market owners vs large market owners. Somebody has to bear the responsibility for these long term deals. The teams that blazed up the league fax machine before September 15th have to held responsible. You don't get a do over.

I'm sure there is an injury stipulation in there or will be.

I think that is small market owners vs large market owners. Somebody has to bear the responsibility for these long term deals. The teams that blazed up the league fax machine before September 15th have to held responsible. You don't get a do over.

I'm sure there is an injury stipulation in there or will be.
- SteveRain

That's my point. The only ones in favor of such a stipulation are the 20 owners who didn't sign one, not the other owners or the 600+ members of the NHLPA.

Just to clear up the rules. The NHL and PA made a temporary agreement while the lockout is in place. Players with NHL two way contracts are eligible to play in the A during the lockout.

Two way contracts that need to pass through waivers (like Hutton) are only required to pass through the initial waivers. They are NOT required to go through re-entry waivers even if re-entry waivers are still part of the new CBA.

Olesz with a one way contract is NOT part of this agreement. He can't play in the A until after the lockout ends. And players like Olesz and Huet are going to be addressed in the new CBA so he probably won't play in the A next year anyway.

One other thing. Being a Black Ace has nothing to do with waivers for the following year. A Black Ace is an honorary position that has nothing to do with anything. Hutton because of his age needed to pass through waivers this year. Basically you have to pass through waivers when you are 26 even if you have a two way EL contract.
- DaleHalas

Thanks for clarifying a lot of things I missed.

Is there a good link that explains the temporary agreement?

As far as I read the temporary agreement the temporary agreement waived some waiver rules.

There's nothing that I'm aware of that says only 2-way players can play in the AHL. There's many reasons why owners wouldnt pay a 1-way player in the AHL (for instance, why pay for the player you're trying to lock out?). Plus the AHL has limits on how many "non-developmental" players they can have on the roster.

The Black Ace may be an honorary position, but it's an actual NHL roster transaction that applies to waiver rules.

Just to clear up the rules. The NHL and PA made a temporary agreement while the lockout is in place. Players with NHL two way contracts are eligible to play in the A during the lockout.

Two way contracts that need to pass through waivers (like Hutton) are only required to pass through the initial waivers. They are NOT required to go through re-entry waivers even if re-entry waivers are still part of the new CBA.

Olesz with a one way contract is NOT part of this agreement. He can't play in the A until after the lockout ends. And players like Olesz and Huet are going to be addressed in the new CBA so he probably won't play in the A next year anyway.

One other thing. Being a Black Ace has nothing to do with waivers for the following year. A Black Ace is an honorary position that has nothing to do with anything. Hutton because of his age needed to pass through waivers this year. Basically you have to pass through waivers when you are 26 even if you have a two way EL contract.
- DaleHalas

Is there a good link that explains the temporary agreement?

As far as I read the temporary agreement the temporary agreement waived some waiver rules.

There's nothing that I'm aware of that says only 2-way players can play in the AHL. There's many reasons why owners wouldnt pay a 1-way player in the AHL (for instance, why pay for the player you're trying to lock out?). Plus the AHL has limits on how many "non-developmental" players they can have on the roster.

The Black Ace may be an honorary position, but it's an actual NHL roster transaction that applies to waiver rules.
- shruew

The only difference (correct me if I'm wrong) is that if a player is picked up off waivers at that time of year they can't play for the team for the remainder of that season.

This article speaks about the current offer which according to Fehr if the NHLPA accepts will cost them $1.6 bil over 5 years....

A listed salary cap of $59.9 million for the 2012-13 season, with a provision teams could spend up to $70.2 million during a transition season.

- Changing eligibility for unrestricted free agency from age 27 or seven years of service to age 28 or eight years of service, down from 10 years of service in the league's earlier proposal.

- Increasing eligibility for salary arbitration from four years to five years.

- Including all years of existing contracts beyond five years against a team's cap, regardless of where a player is playing. If a player is traded and retires or stops playing, the applicable cap charge would be applied against the team that originally signed the contact.

- The reduction of entry-level contracts to two years.

- A term limit on any contract beyond that set at five years and a stipulation that the average annual value can only vary up to five percent. This is a mechanism designed to eliminate long-term, back-loaded contracts.

- The elimination of re-entry waivers.

- Increasing the annual revenue sharing pool by 33 percent to $200 million, assuming annual league revenue of $3.033 billion, with a provision that half the pool be funded by the 10 teams with the highest gross revenue. A cutout against clubs in large media markets, such as Anaheim, New Jersey and the New York Islanders, would be eliminated. A new revenue sharing committee, which would include NHLPA representation, would have input to determine distribution.

Is there a good link that explains the temporary agreement?

As far as I read the temporary agreement the temporary agreement waived some waiver rules.

There's nothing that I'm aware of that says only 2-way players can play in the AHL. There's many reasons why owners wouldnt pay a 1-way player in the AHL (for instance, why pay for the player you're trying to lock out?). Plus the AHL has limits on how many "non-developmental" players they can have on the roster.

The Black Ace may be an honorary position, but it's an actual NHL roster transaction that applies to waiver rules.
- shruew

http://www.sbnation.com/n...-lockout-2012-waivers-ahl

All players belong to the NHL team during the summer. They start on the reserve list and have to be loaned to the affiliated minor league team. After that team's season and postseason end, those players are returned to their original NHL team's reserve list.

Black Aces are "reserve list" players that the team "lets" practice with the team during the playoffs. They are NOT moved to the teams active list. If they were, any team that goes 30 days into the postseason would be "blowing" a year off that players ELC. The league wouldn't do that, be serious.

So the only way a "black ace" can affect his waiver requirements for the following year is to actually play in a postseason game. And then only if you play 10 combined season and postseason games in any one year.

As for anyone with a one way contract, they are considered "on the team" during the summer. So a player like Olesz is a Blackhawk during the summer. This means Olesz is part of the union during the lockout.

The only difference (correct me if I'm wrong) is that if a player is picked up off waivers at that time of year they can't play for the team for the remainder of that season.
- DarthKane

The temporary agreement was part of the current CBA talks. As such, it only deals with this summer's situation and waiver rules after the trade deadline from last year are not involved.

The temporary agreement was part of the current CBA talks. As such, it only deals with this summer's situation and waiver rules after the trade deadline from last year are not involved.
- DaleHalas

Thanks. I was more referring to waivers in general under the old CBA, not the temporary agreement.

But the NBA actually lost half of their season before the lockout ended, the NHL hasn't come lose to losing half of the season yet. As I understand it, the 82game season wouldn't be crammed in either, but rather the early missed games would be tacked on at the end of the season.

I still don't see it happening, but it would be possible...the cup may be awarded in August though.
- Ogilthorpe2

From what I understand just tacking on games at the end and playing the Cup games in July or Aug can't happen.

But the NBA actually lost half of their season before the lockout ended, the NHL hasn't come lose to losing half of the season yet. As I understand it, the 82game season wouldn't be crammed in either, but rather the early missed games would be tacked on at the end of the season.

I still don't see it happening, but it would be possible...the cup may be awarded in August though.
- Ogilthorpe2

From what I understand just tacking on games at the end and playing the Cup games in July or Aug can't happen.

Looks like Big Mac won the game of musical chairs...

http://winterhawks.com/ar...m-lanigan-to-medicine-hat

This article speaks about the current offer which according to Fehr if the NHLPA accepts will cost them $1.6 bil over 5 years....

A listed salary cap of $59.9 million for the 2012-13 season, with a provision teams could spend up to $70.2 million during a transition season.

- Changing eligibility for unrestricted free agency from age 27 or seven years of service to age 28 or eight years of service, down from 10 years of service in the league's earlier proposal.

- Increasing eligibility for salary arbitration from four years to five years.

- Including all years of existing contracts beyond five years against a team's cap, regardless of where a player is playing. If a player is traded and retires or stops playing, the applicable cap charge would be applied against the team that originally signed the contact.

- The reduction of entry-level contracts to two years.

- A term limit on any contract beyond that set at five years and a stipulation that the average annual value can only vary up to five percent. This is a mechanism designed to eliminate long-term, back-loaded contracts.

- The elimination of re-entry waivers.

- Increasing the annual revenue sharing pool by 33 percent to $200 million, assuming annual league revenue of $3.033 billion, with a provision that half the pool be funded by the 10 teams with the highest gross revenue. A cutout against clubs in large media markets, such as Anaheim, New Jersey and the New York Islanders, would be eliminated. A new revenue sharing committee, which would include NHLPA representation, would have input to determine distribution.
- jhawk159

Rest assured this won't pass unless Fehr disappears overnight.

I never thought the logic behind starting an austerity program last year made any sense on any level.

If anything close to the clause below passes...Everyone can see clearly now why the checkbooks were wide open this summer for those teams that want to spend and could afford to do so.

- A term limit on any contract beyond that set at five years and a stipulation that the average annual value can only vary up to five percent. This is a mechanism designed to eliminate long-term, back-loaded contracts.

On Twitter@AlCimaglia

For the hockey starved there will be a "Champs for Charity " game at the Allstate Area featuring many of the 2010 Stanley Cup Championship team vs other NHL players with the proceeds going to Ronald McDonnell House on Oct. 26th. What a great cause and how great will it be to see most of those guys together again. It just might be something to check out.

Rest assured this won't pass unless Fehr disappears overnight.

I never thought the logic behind starting an austerity program last year made any sense on any level.

If anything close to the clause below passes...Everyone can see clearly now why the checkbooks were wide open this summer for those teams that want to spend and could afford to do so.

- A term limit on any contract beyond that set at five years and a stipulation that the average annual value can only vary up to five percent. This is a mechanism designed to eliminate long-term, back-loaded contracts.

On Twitter@AlCimaglia
- Al

When Fehr shoots down all of these cute little clauses inserted in the offer, the tiny, perfect, dictator Commissioner is going to start getting real upset and eventually blow his cool in front of the press. Can't wait to see it.

2 things that awokened me from my lockout slumber:

1. That anyone stashed in the minors WILL count against the cap moving forward. So we have 2 more years of Olesz doing....nothing.

2. Can somebody explain to me why the so called genius that is Stan Bowman felt he had to give a NTC to his potential 5th-7h D man n Michal Rozsival? So that makes 5 of the 7 d men with NMCs/NTCs all given out by Bowman. yet they will probably trade Hammer who they don't have a shot blocking replaement for.

This team is giving me nothing to get excited about even if they do agree before the season would be cancelled.

4 top 6 fs
small in size
a career AHL and mentally frale goalie
Mike Kitchen still employed...
Honestly, how does anyone think this team will compete for a top 4 spot and be a cup contender?

IF so...please pass whatever you are smoking...
- SteveRain

For a second, this tired old post made me yearn for more lockout talk

Rest assured this won't pass unless Fehr disappears overnight.

I never thought the logic behind starting an austerity program last year made any sense on any level.

If anything close to the clause below passes...Everyone can see clearly now why the checkbooks were wide open this summer for those teams that want to spend and could afford to do so.

- A term limit on any contract beyond that set at five years and a stipulation that the average annual value can only vary up to five percent. This is a mechanism designed to eliminate long-term, back-loaded contracts.

On Twitter@AlCimaglia
- Al

The owners will come up with another way to circumvent the term limit stipulation. Didn't they want the salary cap to protect themselves from being financially irresponsibile.

I think that is small market owners vs large market owners. Somebody has to bear the responsibility for these long term deals. The teams that blazed up the league fax machine before September 15th have to held responsible. You don't get a do over.

I'm sure there is an injury stipulation in there or will be.
- SteveRain

This is why I have been saying there is more pressure on Bettman than most realize. The "issue" in this negotiation is about the small market teams. The big market owners have all the power. Bettman is walking a fine line.

Was hoping for a better link than that. I.e., something with the actual agreement, not someone's interpretation of it. People get confused on what 2-way contracts means all the time.

That said, Black Aces are actually placed on the active roster as an official NHL transaction. So, per the old CBA, I'm not sure how your comments hold.

I'm not declaring that you are wrong; I just want to research the actual sources. I've read the old CBA countless times by now and I still find new things.

http://www.sbnation.com/nhl/2012/9/11/3314280/nhl-lockout-2012-waivers-ahl

All players belong to the NHL team during the summer. They start on the reserve list and have to be loaned to the affiliated minor league team. After that team's season and postseason end, those players are returned to their original NHL team's reserve list.

Black Aces are "reserve list" players that the team "lets" practice with the team during the playoffs. They are NOT moved to the teams active list. If they were, any team that goes 30 days into the postseason would be "blowing" a year off that players ELC. The league wouldn't do that, be serious.

So the only way a "black ace" can affect his waiver requirements for the following year is to actually play in a postseason game. And then only if you play 10 combined season and postseason games in any one year.

As for anyone with a one way contract, they are considered "on the team" during the summer. So a player like Olesz is a Blackhawk during the summer. This means Olesz is part of the union during the lockout.
- DaleHalas

Was hoping for a better link than that. I.e., something with the actual agreement, not someone's interpretation of it. People get confused on what 2-way contracts means all the time.

That said, Black Aces are actually placed on the active roster as an official NHL transaction. So, per the old CBA, I'm not sure how your comments hold.

I'm not declaring that you are wrong; I just want to research the actual sources. I've read the old CBA countless times by now and I still find new things.
- shruew

AMEN...

That is a big issue because the last CBA wasn't written with proper detail in many instances.

It was as if it was done over a 4 day weekend rather than an entire calendar year.

It might not have been 4 days but probably closer to that time frame than a full year.
@AlCimaglia

This is why I have been saying there is more pressure on Bettman than most realize. The "issue" in this negotiation is about the small market teams. The big market owners have all the power. Bettman is walking a fine line.
- John Jaeckel

I heard before this started that bringing Fehr in to the mix would be detrimental. I think this afternoon we will find out if that is factual.

As bad as the Chicago Teachers Union strike was, at least, shortly after the strike began, the two sides had marathon negotiating sessions to get a deal done.

Highland Park teachers were on strike for one day: then, after a full day's negotiations, they got it done.

That's what the league and the PA should be doing: negotiating points based on the new league proposal, not for an hour and then break up the meeting.

If tomorrow's meeting is ended without any kind of negotiating going on, then I fear for the season.
- StLBravesFan

big difference the owners are negotiating with their money and politicians are negotiating with our money. Politicians can give two sh!ts about solvancy

big difference the owners are negotiating with their money and politicians are negotiating with our money. Politicians can give two sh!ts about solvancy
- molly2522

Politicians care about what's important to them, and give two sh!its about what's important to everyone else - JUST LIKE businessmen, owners, management, unions - owners and players.

Politicians care about what's important to them, and give two sh!its about what's important to everyone else - JUST LIKE businessmen, owners, management, unions - owners and players.
- StLBravesFan

one side gets their money from people freely giving it to them and the other side not so much