So the manipulated and planned lockout to lose games is now being offered back as an incentive for an agreement. Take this offer to get a full season or continue risking losing the part or the whole season. I must say that is clever. Get what they want with no games lost.

I suspect the players will say nice try but.....
- bogiedoc

Don't know how the players will react, but at some point you have to do the math and wonder how the NHLPA thinks it is worth it for their members to give up 20% or 30% or 100% of their 2012-2013 salaries to save 12-15%, or whatever they would be giving up. Not to mention the damage it would inflict on the players' share going forward in future years, assuming a percentage-based agreement on HRR is reached.

Definitely a win for the owners in the court of public opinion. Pressure is now ramped up squarely on the NHLPA, especially since Mrs. NHLPlayer noticed that there was no direct deposit into her bank account yesterday.
- MartiniMan

Agreed. Smart move tactically. The Devil is always in the details and they are betting that most of the media/public will not be too concerned with those (sort of like someone's tax plan).

The owners are still clawing back from 57% and there has been no indication that they have dropped demands for extended entry level contracts, extending the age for full free agency etc.

So how does Bettman and the league look so much better in the court of public opinion? If anything, their new offer is a quiet admission that their initial plan was ill conceived and they have now recognized that Fehr isn't going to have any of that crap and the fan base is also not on their side.
- RickJ

Because most media and fans will see 50/50 and think it's inordinately fair without delving in to the details. With Don Fehr on the other side, this is where the owners can paint him as a wrecker of the sport if he doesn't "play ball" (pardon the pun).

Only real reference I could find to Olesz status is this link which says he's hurt and was going to be out until Nov/Dec anyway.

http://rockrivertimes.com...%99-%E2%80%94-part-three/

NHL contracts are eligible to play in the AHL. (Beach, Kurger, Hayes, Bollig, Morin, Saad, Smith, Shaw, Pirri, Flick, Clendening, Olsen, Stanton, Lavin, Leddy, Lalonde, Hutton and Richards all have NHL contracts).
- shruew

Sure, those are NHL contracts. Those deals are also two-way deals with both an NHL and AHL salaries defined.

No way is an NHL team going to pay millions of dollars to a locked out player on a one way deal to play in the minors.

Because most media and fans will see 50/50 and think it's inordinately fair without delving in to the details. With Don Fehr on the other side, this is where the owners can paint him as a wrecker of the sport if he doesn't "play ball" (pardon the pun).
- John Jaeckel

Great point, agree 100%.

So the manipulated and planned lockout to lose games is now being offered back as an incentive for an agreement. Take this offer to get a full season or continue risking losing the part or the whole season. I must say that is clever. Get what they want with no games lost.

I suspect the players will say nice try but.....
- bogiedoc

Unless there is something in there that we can't see, I suspect the players will seriously use this as a negotiating point: they know they aren't getting better than 50/50, and, with no rollback and HRR remaining the way it was, it's about as good as they can expect. Look for the NHLPA to press on length of contracts as a main issue. Except for that, what sticking points are there for the union - unless they want to somehow play hardball on the percentage - in which case, they will lose the PR war - as much as I hate management, they would lose me.

The owners are still clawing back from 57% and there has been no indication that they have dropped demands for extended entry level contracts, extending the age for full free agency etc.

So how does Bettman and the league look so much better in the court of public opinion? If anything, their new offer is a quiet admission that their initial plan was ill conceived and they have now recognized that Fehr isn't going to have any of that crap and the fan base is also not on their side.
- RickJ

As pro-union as I usually am (an opinion I've expressed here many times), I don't think this is a disaster for the union:

They probably have been expecting a not-better-than a 50/50 split - and HRR remains the same.

Entry level contracts increase to 4 years from 3 and free agency goes to 8 and 28 from 7 and 27 - not deal killers that I can see.

Maximum contract length of 5 years would be a sticking point, and the whole idea of front-loaded contracts - subject to additional negotiation, I would think.

Agreed. Smart move tactically. The Devil is always in the details and they are betting that most of the media/public will not be too concerned with those (sort of like someone's tax plan).
- John Jaeckel[/quote]

Yes.

Proves two things:

1) Toews is a smart kid.
2) I felt early on in this thing that there would be a fracture among the owners over this thing. Toews is taking advantage of that subtly with his comments.
- John Jaeckel

I was under the impression Wirtz's biggest contention was the revenue sharing with other teams not with players.

Sure, those are NHL contracts. Those deals are also two-way deals with both an NHL and AHL salaries defined.

No way is an NHL team going to pay millions of dollars to a locked out player on a one way deal to play in the minors.
- EKolb13

That's a separate point than what I thought you were making in your previous point in which NHL contracts were prohibited from playing in the NHL.

Yes, a team doesn't have to assign any player to their AHL club. Waiver rules, age/development of the player, AHL roster rules all play into affect.

Unless there is something in there that we can't see, I suspect the players will seriously use this as a negotiating point: they know they aren't getting better than 50/50, and, with no rollback and HRR remaining the way it was, it's about as good as they can expect. Look for the NHLPA to press on length of contracts as a main issue. Except for that, what sticking points are there for the union - unless they want to somehow play hardball on the percentage - in which case, they will lose the PR war - as much as I hate management, they would lose me.
- StLBravesFan

So all of you optimists about out there might be correct. Missed paychecks and losing revenue is the catalyst.

I suspect Fehr will counter and they just might get this done by the end of the week. Otherwise more games get canceled and a lost season really becomes a possibility.

So all of you optimists about out there might be correct. Missed paychecks and losing revenue is the catalyst.

I suspect Fehr will counter and they just might get this done by the end of the week. Otherwise more games get canceled and a lost season really becomes a possibility.
- bogiedoc

And maybe the more "right" people - on both sides - are becoming more influential in the process.

Meanwhile, many more important (but no more useful) strike/lockouts are taking place across the area - e.g., the school district I live in.

Proves two things:

1) Toews is a smart kid.
2) I felt early on in this thing that there would be a fracture among the owners over this thing. Toews is taking advantage of that subtly with his comments.
- John Jaeckel

>Also would add that Toews knows that Rocky does business the old-fashioned way: It's all about people and relationships with Rocky

I am not happy with the NHL owners and thier lock out. I want to boycott watching when they come back.............however I know this is not possiable cause I am a puckhead. I miss the game I love. One think I think I can do is not buy thier merch or Tickets to any games this year. I will however accept a free ticket which has happened many times last season.

Give us our NHL!!!!!

I tweeted this earlier today in response to the Hawks very own Steve Montador saying that maybe the real negotiations can begin now...

If real negotiation is just now beginning, there's more a chance of no snow in Chgo this winter than an 82 game schedule...
On Twitter@AlCimaglia

I tweeted this earlier today in response to the Hawks very own Steve Montador saying that maybe the real negotiations can begin now...

If real negotiation is just now beginning, there's more a chance of no snow in Chgo this winter than an 82 game schedule...
On Twitter@AlCimaglia
- Al

Seems to me, if (IF) there would be basic agreement on the 50/50 and the HRR remains as it was, the remaining issues -OTHER THAN the length of contract - would be solvable reasonably quickly: I can't see losing games because of length of ELCs or adding a year until free agency - grandfather those entering their 7th (or 6th and 7th) years, etc.

50/50 is about where the NBA is, and is where (I've read) both sides thought they'd end up.

I tweeted this earlier today in response to the Hawks very own Steve Montador saying that maybe the real negotiations can begin now...

If real negotiation is just now beginning, there's more a chance of no snow in Chgo this winter than an 82 game schedule...
On Twitter@AlCimaglia
- Al

and the NHL/Betmmann knows that. This proposal was to take the offensive and win the PR battle.

Seems to me, if (IF) there would be basic agreement on the 50/50 and the HRR remains as it was, the remaining issues -OTHER THAN the length of contract - would be solvable reasonably quickly: I can't see losing games because of length of ELCs or adding a year until free agency - grandfather those entering their 7th (or 6th and 7th) years, etc.

50/50 is about where the NBA is, and is where (I've read) both sides thought they'd end up.
- StLBravesFan

Disagree. Fehr isn't going to recommend this offer to his constituents just yet. A 50/50 split is still a rollback of about 12% no matter what Bettman contends. We are just at the starting point of negotiating final percentage points, duration of the CBA, contract length etc.

Seems to me that the owners have all of a sudden decided they want a full season of games and Fehr has frustrated them to date by refusing to put any offer on the table so far. And now he is going to counter by asking for 52-53% on HRR, categorically reject upping the free agent age and limiting contract length. And Bettman and Daly aren't going to be surprised at all by the NHLPA response.

And he is going to

and the NHL/Betmmann knows that. This proposal was to take the offensive and win the PR battle.
- bogiedoc

Bogie - even I'm not that cynical about the owners: how about maybe someone is beginning to realize that lost games - whether 2 or 82 - can mean disaster for the league.

Disagree. Fehr isn't going to recommend this offer to his constituents just yet. A 50/50 split is still a rollback of about 12% no matter what Bettman contends. We are just at the starting point of negotiating final percentage points, duration of the CBA, contract length etc.

Seems to me that the owners have all of a sudden decided they want a full season of games and Fehr has frustrated them to date by refusing to put any offer on the table so far. And now he is going to counter by asking for 52-53% on HRR, categorically reject upping the free agent age and limiting contract length. And Bettman and Daly aren't going to be surprised at all by the NHLPA response.

And he is going to
- RickJ

I'm not saying I'm right and you're wrong - I'm saying I HOPE I'm right and you're wrong.

I may be blowing smoke up my own ass, but I'm hopeful that both sides recognize the opportunity to end the lockout is at hand v

I'm not saying I'm right and you're wrong - I'm saying I HOPE I'm right and you're wrong.

I may be blowing smoke up my own ass, but I'm hopeful that both sides recognize the opportunity to end the lockout is at hand v
- StLBravesFan

Like you, I want them back playing the game, not reading about hard line owners driving the bus and other backroom politics.

What Fehr has done is extract a meaningful offer from the NHL that he can negotiate upward from. The B.S. first offer from the league wasn't worth a response and the NHLPA didn't answer, which is to their credit.

So now Fehr has to balance negotiating a bit better deal for his guys in a reasonably quick time frame against the fact that there probably are 400 union members who would accept the deal as offered today.

Disagree. Fehr isn't going to recommend this offer to his constituents just yet. A 50/50 split is still a rollback of about 12% no matter what Bettman contends. We are just at the starting point of negotiating final percentage points, duration of the CBA, contract length etc.

Seems to me that the owners have all of a sudden decided they want a full season of games and Fehr has frustrated them to date by refusing to put any offer on the table so far. And now he is going to counter by asking for 52-53% on HRR, categorically reject upping the free agent age and limiting contract length. And Bettman and Daly aren't going to be surprised at all by the NHLPA response.

And he is going to
- RickJ

Unless an agreement happens within the next 10 days...I don't know how an 82 game schedule could happen...and even that might be too late.

The Finals have to be over by a certain date and with all of the possible scheduling conflicts in arenas ....It is amost too late for 82 games now.

Even if the season were to start Nov. 2...It would be a very congested schedule ...worse than the Olympics.

As far as Fehr and the PA dragging their feet...

This is not about losing this time, but rather when and how much the players will take it in the shorts the next time.

Unless an agreement happens within the next 10 days...I don't know how an 82 game schedule could happen...and even that might be too late.

The Finals have to be over by a certain date and with all of the possible scheduling conflicts in arenas ....It is amost too late for 82 games now.

Even if the season were to start Nov. 2...It would be a very congested schedule ...worse than the Olympics.

As far as Fehr and the PA dragging their feet...

This is not about losing this time, but rather when and how much the players will take it in the shorts the next time.
- Al

Congested 82 game schedule = lots of injuries.

Teams will be pulling players from their AHL teams on a regular basis.

Bogie - even I'm not that cynical about the owners: how about maybe someone is beginning to realize that lost games - whether 2 or 82 - can mean disaster for the league.
- StLBravesFan

Yes...guilty as charged. I have been extremely cynical about this since the end of the season. Owner's have not operated in bad faith they have operated with no faith. Thats why I would posit this 82 game season carrot is PR...it really puts the onus on the players to take it or lose it.

I am agreement with Al on the pragmatic logistics of cramming in an 82 game season plus playoff with 3 lost weeks. NBA worked out a ridiculous 68 game season with teams playing 4 games in 5 nites 3 or 4 times. And they had sloppy play and alot of injuries for their stupidity. If the NHL tries this...wow...they are even more stupid than I thought.

For 11/1 start with 82 gms....they need to settle this thing tomorrow. Get everyone into camp for breif 10-14 days with maybe 1 or 2 pre-season games.

Not going to happen!!!

Agreed. Smart move tactically. The Devil is always in the details and they are betting that most of the media/public will not be too concerned with those (sort of like someone's tax plan).
- John Jaeckel

WHoa ??!! WTF ? Come on now JJ .....


Anyone hear anything on the players response to the latest offer from the Owners ??