I am pretty much dead set against the players on this, IF and only IF the owners can't find a way to honor the contracts already in place - do it by scale or whatever it takes for you to see greater percentages over time.

The optics of a league coming out of a lockout based on the need for a salary cap now wants to cut those contracts while still under a cap.

Who can be FOR that?

like the Oilers? (who cry poverty)
- jimbro83

Dude, you do realize there's a cap floor, right?

[quote=Charliebox]

yeah, I realize there is a salary floor. I remember when the owners designed it and put it in the current CBA that they can't live with anymore.

I don't know. The current ownership group signed Matt Carle to a 6 year 33 million dollar deal, at least it was all the same money every year though.
- jimbro83

Yes it's an overpay but given the makeup of the current team a necessary acquisition. Also have to note that even with the signing the Bolts still aren't at the cap so while yes it is an overpay, it's not like Carle's contract put the Bolts in a bad situation.

To a certain extent free agent contracts are always going to be an "overpay". Thats the nature of free agency and teams competing which each other for what is a limited resource. How those acquisitions fit into the entire team structure are what matters

I'd like to thank everyone for disagreeing in a civil manner.

Bettman is an easy target, but he is nothing more than a frontman to keep the negativity away from the actual owners who are calling the shots
- Eklund

Well said.... I don't blame Bettman so much as those he represents.

And classic quote from your wife:

"If they care this little about playing in October why don't they just start in November or December every year?"

Love that!

Yes it's an overpay but given the makeup of the current team a necessary acquisition. Also have to note that even with the signing the Bolts still aren't at the cap so while yes it is an overpay, it's not like Carle's contract put the Bolts in a bad situation.

To a certain extent free agent contracts are always going to be an "overpay". Thats the nature of free agency and teams competing which each other for what is a limited resource. How those acquisitions fit into the entire team structure are what matters
- uf1910

well everyone is always going to make excuses for their own team's contracts and criticize the deals other team's give out. That's a given.

Well said.... I don't blame Bettman so much as those he represents.

And classic quote from your wife:

"If they care this little about playing in October why don't they just start in November or December every year?"

Love that!
- ssullivan28

was Bettman around in 1994? 2005? and 2012?

but, you do acknowledge when you go to capgeek and see the list of payrolls, the Rangers are in the middle of the pack and not near the top, correct?
- jimbro83

Is that really relevant, when there is no hockey being played, in a salary cap NHL where all teams are within a well defined range anyway? What happens when they sign Del Zotto anyway? They’re back near the top?

Do you honestly feel that the massive ridiculous contracts that were getting handed out were not a contributing factor to the need for a salary cap? And if so, do you not recognize that the Rangers were handing out a good portion of those ridiculous contracts? Look, I’m not angry about it. It’s just what was happening in the NHL. There were about 6 teams, that were consistently well above everyone else in terms of payroll. And that’s just not a great thing for the league, in my opinion.

was Bettman around in 1994? 2005? and 2012?
- jimbro83

he does not own the league, his role is as a representative of ownership, he can only act with approval of owners

was Bettman around in 1994? 2005? and 2012?
- jimbro83

Did the owners fire him in 1995? 2006? 2013?

yeah, I realize there is a salary floor. I remember when the owners designed it and put it in the current CBA that they can't live with anymore.
- jimbro83

The salary cap floor would have been a stipulation by the NHLPA, obviously. That would be something they would require, as a cap with no floor would put even more deflationary pressure on salaries.

There is no way you can convince me that ALL 30 owners are on the same page when it comes to this lockout. I know they voted 30-0 but honestly ask what the ramifications would be in they didn't vote for the lockout. Look at Vinik and the Lightning organization. He has spent $45M in arena upgrades the past 2 years. Did he really do that to see the arena dark? Did he sign Carle and Salo in the off-season with the goal to lock them out? And thats just the Bolts situation. The Wild didn't sign Suter and Parise with the hopes of a lockout. And there are many other franchises around the league with stories similar to this.
.
- uf1910

I'm guessing that a few teams signed guys to contracts pre-lockout, having assumed that the contracts would be rolled back 15%-20%.

Is that really relevant, when there is no hockey being played, in a salary cap NHL where all teams are within a well defined range anyway? What happens when they sign Del Zotto anyway? They’re back near the top?

Do you honestly feel that the massive ridiculous contracts that were getting handed out were not a contributing factor to the need for a salary cap? And if so, do you not recognize that the Rangers were handing out a good portion of those ridiculous contracts? Look, I’m not angry about it. It’s just what was happening in the NHL. There were about 6 teams, that were consistently well above everyone else in terms of payroll. And that’s just not a great thing for the league, in my opinion.
- prock

actually the Rangers would not like to give a contract to Del Zotto like the Capitals just gave to John Carlson, which was ridiculous. That's why MDZ is not signed yet. Sather is very consistent in not being willing to overpay young RFA's.

I'm guessing that a few teams signed guys to contracts pre-lockout, having assumed that the contracts would be rolled back 15%-20%.
- Atomic Wedgie

It’s not like the players are in the dark on this. They know that’s a possibility.

Did the owners fire him in 1995? 2006? 2013?
- braidan

I can't believe all you guys who defend Bettman, it's utterly ridiculous.

actually the Rangers would not like to give a contract to Del Zotto like the Capitals just gave to John Carlson, which was ridiculous. That's why MDZ is not signed yet. Sather is very consistent in not being willing to overpay young RFA's.
- jimbro83

He prefers old UFAs??? LOL.

Sather, to his credit, has adapted extremely well to the salary cap.

The salary cap floor would have been a stipulation by the NHLPA, obviously. That would be something they would require, as a cap with no floor would put even more deflationary pressure on salaries.
- prock

I remember the 2005 lockout more than you apparently, because I remember the owners saying "cost certainty" was a must. And then when the new CBA was signed everyone said the owners utterly destroyed the players.

I can't believe all you guys who defend Bettman, it's utterly ridiculous.
- jimbro83

You hate him because there have been three lockouts.

Maybe you should direct some of your ire towards Snider and Jacobs.

I can't believe all you guys who defend Bettman, it's utterly ridiculous.
- jimbro83

I'm not defending Bettman, but he is doing what he is told, if the owners did not want a lockout Bettman would not have locked out the players.

You are shooting the messenger.

I can't believe all you guys who defend Bettman, it's utterly ridiculous.
- jimbro83

Defend him how? I’ve said I don’t particularly like the guy. I’m just not letting my feelings on him blind me to the fact that he’s done what he’s being paid to do, extremely well.

You hate him because there have been three lockouts.

Maybe you should direct some of your ire towards Snider and Jacobs.
- Atomic Wedgie

yeah, I certainly have. And, oh yeah, hello, cap circumventing contracts.

I'm not defending Bettman, but he is doing what he is told, if the owners did not want a lockout Bettman would not have locked out the players.

You are shooting the messenger.
- braidan

you are wrong to think he is merely a puppet, Bettman is as evil as it gets.

yeah, I certainly have. And, oh yeah, hello, cap circumventing contracts.
- jimbro83

And that's Bettman's fault?

you are wrong to think he is merely a puppet, Bettman is as evil as it gets.
- jimbro83

C'mon Jimbo....you're smarter than this.