No, having the most valuable hockey team in the world is not very similar to several other hockey markets. Thats nice.

Expect that just makes every other arguement look childish in comparison.
- systemtool

OK, so Toronto is the most valuable hockey team in the world. How predictable that that's what you cling to as a Leafs fan. Big deal. The Leafs are worth lots of money. Now what about the attendance factor? You know, the one that demonstrates how many people actually show up at hockey games? Why is it that other cities can sell out just as much as the Leafs do (or even more) and can also support other hockey teams, yet Toronto can't?

There never was a hockey riot, and the people who werent from Toronto that rioted were arrested. Lol Halifax. That explains it all. Sorry man, I really didnt know. Ill stop the debate right there.
- systemtool

Thanks for living up to the Toronto stereotype. And you guys really wonder why the rest of Canada hates you.

Thanks for living up to the Toronto stereotype. And you guys really wonder why the rest of Canada hates you.
- woopstash

... said the Canucks fan

... said the Canucks fan
- Big_Lightnin

Penguins fan since the late 80's, smart guy.
Don't care much for the Canucks as we don't get much of their coverage here. Leafs and their fans on the other hand...

Penguins fan since draft day 2005
- woopstash

... said the Canucks fan
- Big_Lightnin

As much fun as these Vancouver vs. Toronto battles have become, this one is particularly pathetic.

[quote=markmark]

Wrong again. Poor, poor Leafs fans.
Saw the Pens win their Cups in 91 and 92. Won't find a bigger Lemieux fan than me.

As much fun as these Vancouver vs. Toronto battles have become, this one is particularly pathetic.
- Two_For_Truth

It's actually not an argument. We simply concluded that Toronto is a Leafs market, not a hockey market.

It's actually not an argument. We simply concluded that Toronto is a Leafs market, not a hockey market.
- woopstash

Is that right?

Toronto is not a hockey town. Or sports town. They show up to Leaf games and that's it. Can't blame them. All their teams suck.
- woopstash

I was commenting to the guy who said Toronto is a "major league sports town." and they don't support anything unless it's major league.
Yet they don't even support their major league teams.
- woopstash

Run along before you dig your hole of shame deeper.

Is that right?





Run along before you dig your hole of shame deeper.
- Two_For_Truth

Wow, a sensative bunch you Leaf fans are.

Yes, I did say,

"Toronto is not a hockey town. Or sports town. They show up to Leaf games and that's it. Can't blame them. All their teams suck."

That's considered an argument? Are you trying to tell me that Toronto teams don't suck?

Next:

"I was commenting to the guy who said Toronto is a "major league sports town." and they don't support anything unless it's major league." Yet they don't even support their major league teams."

Again, are you going to tell me they DO support their teams? I was simply stating the facts. Now run along before you get proven wrong again.

Penguins fan since the late 80's, smart guy.
Don't care much for the Canucks as we don't get much of their coverage here. Leafs and their fans on the other hand...
- woopstash

ok... said the guy who spent all night in the Leafs thread...

Saw they were calling you a Nucks fan earlier - and with all the riot references it really seemed to fit.


Since you kept asking and nobody else really answered, I'm just going to assume you genuinely want to know - so here's a couple reasons why the GTA doesn't support other levels of hockey in attendance.

1 - most Marlies games are televised, so I can watch for free at home rather than go there and... yes, tickets are cheap, but beers are still $10 a pint. Same for the OHL games in Brampton and Sauga, and several of their games are also televised on community TV.

2 - in non-lockout years... other leagues games are often the same nights as Leaf games. When the option is Stay home and watch the Leafs, or go to a Battalion game... well that's not much of a decision. GF-wife factor here too - 3-4 nights per week watching NHL hockey and another 1-2 nights per week playing beer league hockey pretty much matches the quota for most guys wives and GF's.

3 - most Leaf fans will never see the Leafs play live - fact of being a Leafs plan - many of us don't get the chance to watch our favourite team play live, and therefore don't watch much live hockey.

4 - OHL specific - no Torontonian is going to drive 40 minutes to go watch Brampton or Mississauga play unless they are related to someone on the team. Can't offer an excuse for those that live in those regions of GTA, however.

It's a fickle fan base. Fair weather fans.
- woopstash

Really? From a Pens fan? Isn't that the team that almost folded after a few down years, and almost certainly would have, had they not lucked out and gotten the best player on the planet?

You didn't really just say that, did you?

On top of that, calling Leaf fans fair weather is possibly the most absurd thing ever said on this site.

Again, are you going to tell me they DO support their teams? I was simply stating the facts. Now run along before you get proven wrong again.
- woopstash

Explain how they don't support their teams?

Toronto is the only Canadian city that can hold all four major North American sports leagues.

Does Vancouver have an MLB team? Nope.

Does Vancouver have an NBA team? Not anymore. Couldn't support it.

Does Vancouver have an NFL team? Hasn't even been tried yet.

So big round of applause for the one team Vancouver can support.

Do yourself a favour and get out while you still can.

ok... said the guy who spent all night in the Leafs thread...

Saw they were calling you a Nucks fan earlier - and with all the riot references it really seemed to fit.

But I guess you just had your facts wrong on that one...

Since you kept asking and nobody else really answered - couple reasons GTA doesn't support other levels of hockey in attendance.

1 - most Marlies games are televised, so I can watch for free at home rather than go there and... yes, tickets are cheap, but beers are still $10 a pint. Same for the OHL games in Brampton and Sauga, and several of their games are also televised on community TV.

2 - in non-lockout years... other leagues games are often the same nights as Leaf games. When the option is Stay home and watch the Leafs, or go to a Battalion game... well that's not much of a decision. GF-wife factor here too - 3-4 nights per week watching NHL hockey and another 1-2 nights per week playing beer league hockey pretty much matches the quota for most guys wives and GF's.

3 - most Leaf fans will never see the Leafs play live - fact of being a Leafs plan - many of us don't get the chance to watch our favourite team play live, and therefore don't watch much live hockey.

4 - OHL specific - no Torontonian is going to drive 40 minutes to go watch Brampton or Mississauga play unless they are related to someone on the team. Can't offer an excuse for those that live in those regions of GTA, however.
- Big_Lightnin

There was only one riot reference. And it was by another Leaf fan. I simply replied by asking about the Toronto riots.

At least you gave some well thought out answers of your own. Seems most Leaf fans just begin harassing other fans as soon as they say something to hurt their feelings.
I don't but the televised factor. Toronto has a lot of people. The fact is they should be able to get more fans out to Marlies games, especially since they are the self proclaimed hockey centre of the universe. If CFL fans can do it, Marlies fans can do it.
I'm not sure I understand your third reason. People don't get to see Leafs games live so they don't go to Marlies games either?

Really? From a Pens fan? Isn't that the team that almost folded after a few down years, and almost certainly would have, had they not lucked out and gotten the best player on the planet?

You didn't really just say that, did you?

On top of that, calling Leaf fans fair weather is possibly the most absurd thing ever said on this site.
- prock

Where did I say Penguins fans are not fickle or fair weather? Enlighten me.
I'm a Pens fan living in Canada.
And I said Toronto sports fans are fickle and fair weather, not Leaf fans. Try again.

Its actually an interesting point..... what other cities, in any sport really, support a team that is in the second best league in their city? Places like Halifax or Quebec City, sure, they'll go to Moose head and Rem parts games. But that's the best they have to offer.

What's the attendance Ike for the Montreal junior team?

Explain how they don't support their teams?

Toronto is the only Canadian city that can hold all four major North American sports leagues.

Does Vancouver have an MLB team? Nope.

Does Vancouver have an NBA team? Not anymore. Couldn't support it.

Does Vancouver have an NFL team? Hasn't even been tried yet.

So big round of applause for the one team Vancouver can support.

Do yourself a favour and get out while you still can.
- Two_For_Truth

Do you honestly still think I'm a Canuck fan in Vancouver?
That's great that Toronto is a large city. I know that. Torontoians love to pound their chest about that. Big deal. You have a bunch of poopty pro sports teams. You must be proud. And didn't Vancouver's NBA team leave cause of ownership issues? And didn't Toronto have to give away thousands of tickets when the Bills came to play in Toronto? We were never arguing about being able to support sports teams yet you have to make a scene and give the typical Toronto response about how the mighty Toronto has several sports teams. I guess it's easier than talking about how crappy each and every one of those teams is. It's simple. Toronto is a big city, they have more pro sports teams. No body is arguing that. But good for you. Would you like a trophy?

Its actually an interesting point..... what other cities, in any sport really, support a team that is in the second best league in their city? Places like Halifax or Quebec City, sure, they'll go to Moose head and Rem parts games. But that's the best they have to offer.

What's the attendance Ike for the Montreal junior team?
- prock

What about Calgary, Edmonton and Vancouver? They all support their junior teams even more than Toronto supports an AHL team.

Where did I say Penguins fans are not fickle or fair weather? Enlighten me.
I'm a Pens fan living in Canada.
And I said Toronto sports fans are fickle and fair weather, not Leaf fans. Try again.
- woopstash

You live in Canada, yet support an american team that your nowhere near. Nice logic, some support that is.

You live in Canada, yet support an american team that your nowhere near. Nice logic, some support that is.
- Mapleleafs_91

...You've never been to Halifax have you?
I'd love to hear what you think it's like out here. Everyone cheers for whatever sports team they're closest to? Is that really how you think it works?

We were never arguing about being able to support sports teams

It's simple. Toronto is a big city, they have more pro sports teams. No body is arguing that.
- woopstash

Actually you did. You said Toronto doesn't support their teams. They do. You were wrong. Again.

Where did I say Penguins fans are not fickle or fair weather? Enlighten me.
I'm a Pens fan living in Canada.
And I said Toronto sports fans are fickle and fair weather, not Leaf fans. Try again.
- woopstash

he biggest faction of toronto sports fans would be Leaf fans. "Toronto sports fans" is 80% Leaf fans. By calling Toronto sport fans fair weather, you're calling Leaf fans fair weather.

80% of the people you just called fair weather are possibly the most loyal fans in the world to the Leafs.

Or are you trying to tell us that you think toronto sports fans are fair weather when it comes to the teams that aren't their favourite?

...You've never been to Halifax have you?
I'd love to hear what you think it's like out here. Everyone cheers for whatever sports team they're closest to? Is that really how you think it works?
- woopstash

You support no one. Hockey does not exist for you as of now. Carry on

There was only one riot reference. And it was by another Leaf fan. I simply replied by asking about the Toronto riots.

At least you gave some well thought out answers of your own. Seems most Leaf fans just begin harassing other fans as soon as they say something to hurt their feelings.
I don't but the televised factor. Toronto has a lot of people. The fact is they should be able to get more fans out to Marlies games, especially since they are the self proclaimed hockey centre of the universe. If CFL fans can do it, Marlies fans can do it.
I'm not sure I understand your third reason. People don't get to see Leafs games live so they don't go to Marlies games either?
- woopstash

We take a lot of poop from a lot of fan bases. Fuses are short around here.

Lot of people don't associate watching hockey with going to the game. "Going out to watch a game" is going to a bar. It just isn't something that you think to do...unless you have kids or are really looking for it.

Marlies were better last year, and attendance numbers grew as the season went on. Season ticket sales are up this year, and once season starts I'd expect to see strong attendance while there's no Leafs, and better attendance than Last year even when Lockout is over if the team stays on top of the division. They were in a playoff slump of their own for a few years - only natural fans don't some out when there isn't much to watch. You Pens are a prime example of that.

Actually you did. You said Toronto doesn't support their teams. They do. You were wrong. Again.
- Two_For_Truth

That moment when hes a pens fan