[quote=blackhawk24]What, no Tommy Lysiak?

Tommy was big centreman who liked his powder...

If that was the case (and I have no reason to believe it wasn't) I would have let Amonte walk too.

But it doesn't take away from all the good things he did with the Hawks; 40+ goals 3 times, 30+ goals 6 times, approx 0.86 PPG, played 5 consecutive years without missing a game (would have been 6 but he missed a game in 1995-1996). These are impressive offensive numbers, especially considering the fact that during his tenure here Amonte didn't have a lot of talent to play with.
- DarthKane

....He got pretty close to $6 mill per for two yrs from the Fly Boys...$5.8 per...was hurt one year but totaled a combined 40 pts in two seasons...

And that was a lot less than the $8 mill his buddy JR was getting in the same seasons.

Salaries were soaring and Bill Wirtz wasn't ready to fully adjust.

Mush March needs more votes. He was an icon in the city. And Mosienko's 3 goals in 21 seconds will never be broken.
- acmidd28

And Mosienko put up some pretty nice numbers in a 6 team league!I was thinking Larmer all the way until I looked up Bills' stats.But I still go with the ironman Larmer.Probably only bacause Mosienko's best years were during the war and I have no idea if that watered down things?Close though,

Larmer because of how long he was here...and how the refused to ever pay him his worth.

Hossa is unquestionably the most skilled RW they have had in the modern era...

Dirk Graham gets mentioned for what he brought every night.

Kenny Wharran was the best blue line pass receiver..if he played the way they are "given" the blue line THEN, he would have been a much bigger scorer.

Murray Balfour (obtained for cash from Montreal) was a smaller frenchmen who played big and made space for the big guy on the Million Dollar babies, Bobby Hull.

Eric Nesterenko, who they got for cash from the Toronto system was an extremely underated cerebral player, who actually scored some big goals in Blackhawk history besides being so good defensively against Gordie.Kane has got to figure in there based on the big goals in Blackhawk history he already has scored, and the ability level.

Roenick played wing a lot his first year...

just nobody say Chico Maki, ok, because then you fall in the category of Chet Koppick and the radio hockey expert Dan McNeal, who seemed to mention Maki's name more than they every had a clue about anything...

Daze was a wussy plain& simple...but he was nice to his wife (who sat near us) and bought he new boobns, nose, and beauty treatments and clothes.
I used to love that Nylander Dumont Daze line...they would out finesse the poop out of the otehr team getting lots of early chances...then they started attacking, checking, and hitting them and the tails went between their legs and they disappeared during the part of the night the hawks needed goals in those horrible years...

oh, Ken Hodge wasn't bad in his early on years playing physical...I will NEVER understand that trade with Freddie Stanfield & Phil Esposito..

Amonte was a sniper, but did he REALLY ever commit defensively?
- wiz1901

Nesterenko somehow squeezed a 20 season NHL career out of that body, even after Gordie punished him severely a couple of times.

He wound up playing amateur hockey for the Trail Smoke Eaters into his 40's - guess he didn't want to go back to his hometown of Flin Flon, Manitoba.

Is he still alive?

Larmer because of how long he was here...and how the refused to ever pay him his worth.

Hossa is unquestionably the most skilled RW they have had in the modern era...

Dirk Graham gets mentioned for what he brought every night.

Kenny Wharran was the best blue line pass receiver..if he played the way they are "given" the blue line THEN, he would have been a much bigger scorer.

Murray Balfour (obtained for cash from Montreal) was a smaller frenchmen who played big and made space for the big guy on the Million Dollar babies, Bobby Hull.

Eric Nesterenko, who they got for cash from the Toronto system was an extremely underated cerebral player, who actually scored some big goals in Blackhawk history besides being so good defensively against Gordie.

Kane has got to figure in there based on the big goals in Blackhawk history he already has scored, and the ability level.

Roenick played wing a lot his first year...

just nobody say Chico Maki, ok, because then you fall in the category of Chet Koppick and the radio hockey expert Dan McNeal, who seemed to mention Maki's name more than they every had a clue about anything...

Daze was a wussy plain& simple...but he was nice to his wife (who sat near us) and bought he new boobns, nose, and beauty treatments and clothes.
I used to love that Nylander Dumont Daze line...they would out finesse the poop out of the otehr team getting lots of early chances...then they started attacking, checking, and hitting them and the tails went between their legs and they disappeared during the part of the night the hawks needed goals in those horrible years...

oh, Ken Hodge wasn't bad in his early on years playing physical...I will NEVER understand that trade with Freddie Stanfield & Phil Esposito..

Amonte was a sniper, but did he REALLY ever commit defensively?
- wiz1901

oh, Ken Hodge wasn't bad in his early on years playing physical...I will NEVER understand that trade with Freddie Stanfield & Phil Esposito

That trade happened becasue Espo liked to have a few pops and was outspoken...

He called it like it was and Billy Reay and Tommy Ivan costs the Hawks at least one Cup if not more...Espo told them both after having more than a few that those two would screw the team up.....And he turned out being correct.

Supposedly the trade was supposed to include Cheavers but the Bruins said no at the last minute and Ivan and Reay were so hell bent on getting Espo out of Chgo...plus Stanfield and Hodge were vg players...The trade went through anyway.

That was the worst trade in Chgo sports history in my opinion. Espo was vg as a Hawk and all signs were he would get better.

Worse than Brock for Broglio....

You brought up Balfour who the Hawks missed after they traded him....He died a young man a couple years later of lung cancer.

He never smoked and never drank...He would come over for dinner and wouldn't even put black pepper on his food. Another player that was quite a physical specimen.

Nesterenko somehow squeezed a 20 season NHL career out of that body, even after Gordie punished him severely a couple of times.

He wound up playing amateur hockey for the Trail Smoke Eaters into his 40's - guess he didn't want to go back to his hometown of Flin Flon, Manitoba.

Is he still alive?
- RickJ

Yes and looks good for his age.

oh, Ken Hodge wasn't bad in his early on years playing physical...I will NEVER understand that trade with Freddie Stanfield & Phil Esposito

That trade happened becasue Espo liked to have a few pops and was outspoken...

He called it like it was and Billy Reay and Tommy Ivan costs the Hawks at least one Cup if not more...Espo told them both after having more than a few that those two would screw the team up.....And he turned out being correct.

Supposedly the trade was supposed to include Cheavers but the Bruins said no at the last minute and Ivan and Reay were so hell bent on getting Espo out of Chgo...plus Stanfield and Hodge were vg players...The trade went through anyway.

That was the worst trade in Chgo sports history in my opinion. Espo was vg as a Hawk and all signs were he would get better.

Worse than Brock for Broglio....

You brought up Balfour who the Hawks missed after they traded him....He died a young man a couple years later of lung cancer.

He never smoked and never drank...He would come over for dinner and wouldn't even put black pepper on his food. Another player that was quite a physical specimen.
- Al

The Brock for Broglio trade was a disaster but IMO the Esposito trade was just as bad if not worse. Maybe that will be a topic for another day.

For sure but...

I think many fail to realize how good the Cup team of the 60's was...

In the mid 60's the Hawks had Mikita, Hull, Wharram, Pilote and Hall on the starting All Star team. ...Plus Vasko made the 2nd team squad.

5 out of 6 starters to play against the Cup winners was very impressive.

6 team league or not I don't know if that ever happened before or after again.

On Twitter@AlCimaglia
- Al

Wasn't Moose the biggest player in the league at about 200 lbs.?

The Brock for Broglio trade was a disaster but IMO the Esposito trade was just as bad if not worse. Maybe that will be a topic for another day.


- jhawk159

Brock for Broglio turned out to be a disaster, but wasn't terrible when it happened: sending a not-yet-proven player for an in-his-prime proven winner.

Dealing Esposito and Hodge was bad from the beginning.

The Brock for Broglio trade was a disaster but IMO the Esposito trade was just as bad if not worse. Maybe that will be a topic for another day.


- jhawk159

For sure....But in the big picture Brock was not as a good of a player at the time of the deal as Espo..

Brock for Broglio turned out to be a disaster, but wasn't terrible when it happened: sending a not-yet-proven player for an in-his-prime proven winner.

Dealing Esposito and Hodge was bad from the beginning.
- StLBravesFan

And Stanfield was a better all around player than Hodge.

Wasn't Moose the biggest player in the league at about 200 lbs.?
- StLBravesFan

Well the 200 lbs was in his younger days...

But he was the biggest until Peter Maholovich...who was taller, but by that time Moose was probably closer to 240lbs than 200 lbs.

A really underrated player....Until today Pilot still credits Moose because he took a lot of chances and needed a strong partner.

On Twitter@AlCimaglia

oh, Ken Hodge wasn't bad in his early on years playing physical...I will NEVER understand that trade with Freddie Stanfield & Phil Esposito

That trade happened becasue Espo liked to have a few pops and was outspoken...

He called it like it was and Billy Reay and Tommy Ivan costs the Hawks at least one Cup if not more...Espo told them both after having more than a few that those two would screw the team up.....And he turned out being correct.

Supposedly the trade was supposed to include Cheavers but the Bruins said no at the last minute and Ivan and Reay were so hell bent on getting Espo out of Chgo...plus Stanfield and Hodge were vg players...The trade went through anyway.

That was the worst trade in Chgo sports history in my opinion. Espo was vg as a Hawk and all signs were he would get better.

Worse than Brock for Broglio....

You brought up Balfour who the Hawks missed after they traded him....He died a young man a couple years later of lung cancer.

He never smoked and never drank...He would come over for dinner and wouldn't even put black pepper on his food. Another player that was quite a physical specimen.
- Al

Don't know if you remember this one fron the 60's, but once a year there would be a bench clearing brawl at Maple Leaf Gardens. Two big ones were with the Hawks involved. One of them started because Eddie Shack and Reggie Fleming were trying to carve each other up with their sticks.

These were the days when the players on both teams went to the same penalty box and the PA announcer would sit between 2 players. Often times fights would break out in the penalty box between players and fans would get involved too. On this night, Fleming was sent from the box to the Hawk dressing room by the ref for his own safety and as he went by the Leaf bench a few players took swings at him and then the benches emptied into a full scale brawl that went for half hour at least.

Shack knocked Mikita cold with a sucker punch and Murray Balfour wound up alone with Carl Brewer. They fell threw one of the doors at the players bench and Balfour wound up on top of Brewer and was about to kill him when somebody hit him and cut his head wide open. Nobody knew who hit Balfour but the Hawks claimed it was the Leaf's trainer.

Years later it was revealed that a guy named Richard Shatto who played for the Toronto Argonauts football team was the guilty party and he did it because his son's favourite player was Carl Brewer and he was about to get killed by Balfour.

You sure don't get that kind of compelling entertainment these days in Gary Bettman's NHL.

For sure....But in the big picture Brock was not as a good of a player at the time of the deal as Espo..
- Al

Your right about that Al. I took a look at Espo's numbers in his three years with the Hawks and he had scored over 20 goals and more than 25 assists in each season. Those are not shabby numbers in any era. What in the world were the Hawks thinking in trading him away?

what about Jack Skille?? javascript:emoticon('') oops

Don't know if you remember this one fron the 60's, but once a year there would be a bench clearing brawl at Maple Leaf Gardens. Two big ones were with the Hawks involved. One of them started because Eddie Shack and Reggie Fleming were trying to carve each other up with their sticks.

These were the days when the players on both teams went to the same penalty box and the PA announcer would sit between 2 players. Often times fights would break out in the penalty box between players and fans would get involved too. On this night, Fleming was sent from the box to the Hawk dressing room by the ref for his own safety and as he went by the Leaf bench a few players took swings at him and then the benches emptied into a full scale brawl that went for half hour at least.

Shack knocked Mikita cold with a sucker punch and Murray Balfour wound up alone with Carl Brewer. They fell threw one of the doors at the players bench and Balfour wound up on top of Brewer and was about to kill him when somebody hit him and cut his head wide open. Nobody knew who hit Balfour but the Hawks claimed it was the Leaf's trainer.

Years later it was revealed that a guy named Richard Shatto who played for the Toronto Argonauts football team was the guilty party and he did it because his son's favourite player was Carl Brewer and he was about to get killed by Balfour.

You sure don't get that kind of compelling entertainment these days in Gary Bettman's NHL.
- RickJ

Your specific memory is better than mine...Although I remember the highlight of my week was watching those Saturday night Hawk games.

Murray Belfour was like a choir boy...No drink, no smoke, no cussing but strong as an ox.

Your right about that Al. I took a look at Espo's numbers in his three years with the Hawks and he had scored over 20 goals and more than 25 assists in each season. Those are not shabby numbers in any era. What in the world were the Hawks thinking in trading him away?
- jhawk159

You are correct...20 goals back then meant you were a player..

In those days personal grudges were taken care of by shipping players off.

My father would tell me later on how Chgo was thought as the Siberia of the NHL....Farthest away from Canada and many times players sent via trade were here to be punished...Glenn Hall and Ted Lindsay are two prime examples.

Other times players were sent to the minors and the owners all would hold hands and never attempt to call them up ever again.

The Hawks were a bad team until Ivan did his best work ever and acquired the entire St. Catherines Jr. team....It was flush with All Stars and HOF players but....
Actually Hawks had the pipeline going from there from the mid 50's...before they owned it.

Espo, Stanfield and Hodge came after in the early 60's.

Espo was brought through the Hawks sysytem but he was a cocky kid who spoke his mind and even more so when he was drinking.

He embarassd Ivan and Reay at team get together and was soon sent packing.

I wonder how different NHL history would have been if those three stayed in Chgo...

On Twitter@AlCimaglia

You are correct...20 goals back then meant you were a player..

In those days personal grudges were taken care of by shipping players off.

My father would tell me later on how Chgo was thought as the Siberia of the NHL....Farthest away from Canada and many times players sent via trade were here to be punished...Glenn Hall and Ted Lindsay are two prime examples.

Other times players were sent to the minors and the owners all would hold hands and never attempt to call them up ever again.

The Hawks were a bad team until Ivan did his best work ever and acquired the entire St. Catherines Jr. team....It was flush with All Stars and HOF players.

Espo was brought through the Hawks sysytem but he was a cocky kid who spoke his mind and even more so when he was drinking.

He embarassd Ivan and Reay at team get together and was soon sent packing.

I wonder how different NHL history would have been if those three stayed in Chgo...

On Twitter@AlCimaglia
- Al

When did Norris and Wirtz end their dual ownership of the Hawks and Wings?

I've read that they would stock the Wings at the expense of the Hawks, a major reason why the Hawks were so bad until the Tommy Ivan success.

When did Norris and Wirtz end their dual ownership of the Hawks and Wings?

I've read that they would stock the Wings at the expense of the Hawks, a major reason why the Hawks were so bad until the Tommy Ivan success.
- StLBravesFan

Not sure exact yr....but back then it was a tight knit club to say the least.

I think Norris might have had an interest in 3 different teams at the same time... but you are correct he had a say in Det and Chgo ownership at the same time.

On Twitter@AlCimaglia

You brought up Balfour who the Hawks missed after they traded him....He died a young man a couple years later of lung cancer.

He never smoked and never drank...He would come over for dinner and wouldn't even put black pepper on his food. Another player that was quite a physical specimen.

Yeah, when he was in the press box, he would come down and talk to the older guys whom my father trusted me to to go to the games. (My father never went to a game, he was too busy fixing wreck cars at night to turn over,after pumping gas all day.)

One time Murray had this very loud sweater on and said he paid $30 in Canada for it, and Frankie Schiola (one of guys) said he bought the same sweater at K-mart for $3 dollars. (i learned the game as a kid from Frank, his brother Rocco, Don Damagoni, and the Swede...they were going to the games since the 40's...they were never quiet in their seats and they pointed stuff out thought we where and what to look at)

On to Phil: The version I heard from a certain person whose tonque loosened after several wines, was that Phil Bobby and Chico and others were inone of their hotel rooms, and Reay did a bed check hearing several loud voices partying started hammering knocks on the door to open it and Phil told him to go (frank) himself and they never opened the door.
Reay went to GM Ivan and said he wanted Phil gone, none of the others...
The thing ws WITH EXPANSION TO 12 teams from 6 the team thought that they would be exposing their surplus at forward w/o a return, and that Denis Dejordy who they thought would be the heir apparant to Glenn Hall actually was great minor league goalie, but sucked as in the 6 team league....so....knowing that Boston had a surplus of goalies (Favell Parent and Jack Norris...I don't think Cheevers was on the table as he and Eddie Johnston were their tandem...because Johnston was older and never a horse type and needed resting... ), the HAWKS expanded Espo to C Stanfield & RW Hodge to get d-man Gilles Marotte (who was like 22 and short but solid skater/hitter and expendable because Orr was coming or had already arrived the year before) AND the 5 ' 8" Pit Martin who was really quick and shifty compared to Phil who wasn't.

Clearly GM IVAN and his scouts were unable to get the best of the three tenders and the other two became attractive selections in the expansion draft...

And even though some of you would think I am talking out of my assm the players lost theri respect for Reay and never felt he was a good coach and actually blamed him for playoff loses because he shook up conventional lines with ones that didn't click...the players may not admit this a convention now out of respect for the past Reay, but they loved Rudy b/c the "St Cath's kids" got preferental treatment as long time players with Rudy...

Not sure exact yr....but back then it was a tight knit club to say the least.

I think Norris might have had an interest in 3 different teams at the same time... but you are correct he had a say in Det and Chgo ownership at the same time.

On Twitter@AlCimaglia
- Al

Norris FAMILY owed the Madison Square Garden, Witchita arena St. Louis arena and the Vancouver area and bought most in the dression for 5 cents on the dollar,
Jim and half brother's Bruce daddy Norris (a grain dealer who was partners with the Wirtz family since 1929 in grain dealerships = booze) got Detroit franchise with Wirtz in 1932. One brother Bruce ran Wings as a separated business, in 1946, Bill ran Chicago and had partners minority investors Bill Tobin (football Tobin) and the Arthur Wirtz family. Wirtz left the wings in 1951 to join the Hawks board.
Wirtz & Norris families were entwined from 1929,


Norris was president of the International Boxing Club of New York from 1949 to 1958. The IBC dominated boxing in the U.S. in the 1950s, but was dissolved by the courts, which ruled it to be a monopoly. As president of the IBC, Norris was involved with organized crime figures. Norris was responsible for fixing numerous bouts. Besides match fixing, he was also unofficially managing many boxers (usually against their will) and persuading them to hire his associates as advisors.[2]
Among his investments, James Norris held interests in the Rock Island Railroad, the Chicago Furniture Mart, and Chicago's Bismarck Hotel. Norris also owned Thoroughbred racehorses and Spring Hill Farm in Paris, Kentucky. His horses raced at tracks in the United States and in Canada where his colt, Rocky Royale, won the 1960 Canadian International Stakes. In 1938 his horse Danger Point, ridden by Eddie Arcaro, won the Metropolitan Handicap.
Like his father, Norris suffered from heart problems and had two heart attacks. He died in Chicago in 1966 at age 59, with a reported net worth of $250 million. Shortly before his death, Norris had arranged for an NHL franchise to be awarded to St. Louis, Missouri, even though no one from St. Louis applied for a franchise. Norris owned the St. Louis Arena.

Arthur Wirz became controlling partner of Hawks soon after that.

It was that "closeness" rgar brought Mr. Goalie here.

In 1957, James Norris along with his half brother Bruce Norris and other NHL owners of the time, were accused of union busting activities related to the attempt by Ted Lindsay and a group of NHL players to form an NHL Players Association. Mr. Norris's role in those affairs are dramatized in the movie, Net Worth.

Well the 200 lbs was in his younger days...

But he was the biggest until Peter Maholovich...who was taller, but by that time Moose was probably closer to 240lbs than 200 lbs.

A really underrated player....Until today Pilot still credits Moose because he took a lot of chances and needed a strong partner.

On Twitter@AlCimaglia
- Al

Unfortunately Moose was an alcoholic before he was passed his prime.
Yeah he game Pilote room to roam, and literally would rock and shake and rattle board like Bobby Baun when he coaught you with a solid hip and body check and there was no board call for that. Boarding was when you violently did it and it seemed out of the actual course of attempting to play defense...
IF the presnet rules couls in some way try and distingushes teh cheapies from actually defense, and the refs were given that same type of leeway, the game would be policed better, imo.

Murray Balfour
Yeah, when he was in the press box, he would come down and talk to the older guys whom my father trusted me to to go to the games. (My father never went to a game, he was too busy fixing wreck cars at night to turn over,after pumping gas all day.)

One time Murray had this very loud sweater on and said he paid $30 in Canada for it, and Frankie Schiola (one of guys) said he bought the same sweater at K-mart for $3 dollars.

On to Phil: The version I heard from a certain person whose tonque loosened after several wines, was that Phil Bobby and Chico and others were inone of their hotel rooms, and Reay did a bed check hearing several loud voices partying started hammering knocks on the door to open it and Phil told him to go (frank) himself and they never opened the door.
Reay went to GM Ivan and said he wanted Phil gone, none of the others...
The thing was WITH EXPANSION TO 12 teams from 6 the team thought that they would be expousing their surplus at forward w/o a return, and that Denis Dejordy who they thought would be the heir apparant to Glenn Hall actually was great minor league goalie, but sucked as in the 6 tem league....so....knowing that Boston had a surplus of goalies (Favell Parent and Jack Norris...I don't think Cheevers was on the tabke as he and Eddie Johnston were their tandem...becasue Jonstom was older and never a horse type and needed resting... ), the HAWKS expanded Espo to C Stanfield & RW Hodge
to get d-man Gilles Marotte (who was like 22 and short but solid skater/hitter and expendable becasue Orr was coming or had already arrived the year before) AND Pit Martin who was really quick and shifty compared to Phil who wasn't.

Clearly GM IVAN and his scouts were unable to get the best of the three tenders and the other two became attractive selections in the expansion draft...

And even though some of you would think I am talking out of my assm the players lost theri respect for Reay and never felt he was a good coach and actually blamed him for playoff loses because he shook up conventional lines with ones that didn't click...the players may not admit this a convention now out of respect for the past Reay, but they loved Rudy b/c the "st cath's" kids got preferental treatment as long time players with Rudy...
- wiz1901

[quote=blackhawk24]What, no Tommy Lysiak?

Tommy was big centreman who liked his powder...
- wiz1901

I know because I did too...while he was at Ill Masonic I visited him..
sniff

[quote=blackhawk24]What, no Tommy Lysiak?

Tommy was big centreman who liked his powder...
- wiz1901

Wasn't referring to his off-ice issues (never heard of them until well after) but that of his 'gesture' a couple times to the linesman before a faceoff in the game vs the Blues in '82, not tripping the linesman in '83 during the Whalers game.