I'm not optimistic at all. I think play resumes January 1st. What sucks is that many of the Hawks questions won't be answered by a half season. IMO the season will feel empty.

You're off by 10.
- StLBravesFan

Partial credit for being close at least? Date was completely off the top of my head.

JJ....Thanks for going with the Frolik picture today.

Over Twitter I asked Frolik's agent what he plans to do during the lockout, but so far he hasn't replied.
- DarthKane

I will answer it for you: he will continue to flood Twitter with his points of view and over the top promotion of his players.

I will answer it for you: he will continue to flood Twitter with his points of view and over the top promotion of his players.
- John Jaeckel

I know Walsh usually does that, he's always pimped his big name players such as Fleury and Michalek but he rarely tweets anything about Frolik. I've said something to him in the past about this but agan, there was no reply.

Partial credit for being close at least? Date was completely off the top of my head.
- Beaver-Warrior

Don't know about the date - it should be "54-40 or fight".

But full credit for the reference.

You're my favorite Canuck fan.
- EKolb13

Vantel will be so broken hearted

Thirty teams means:

1. More jobs for players - good for the NHLPA
2. TV contracts have more value - good for the NHL

For those two reasons, contraction will never happen.

Best solution is revenue sharing combined with relocation of financially worst teams.

1. Nuke Phoenix and the next worst balance sheet and move them to Hamilton and Quebec.

2. You remove the worst bleeders and actually reduce the revenue sharing needed to keep them afloat.

But that will never happen because the Leafs will never let an NHL team in their market, Bettman seems destined to not admit failure in some of the US markets, and most importantly, the most financially successful franchises are greedy bastardos who won't share a nickel.

I say the players should put forth this exact proposal and be prepared to take Bettman's Winter Classicgasm away until they get it.

Actually there are no victims as no one forces a fan to watch a game or go to the stadium.

Since both activities are not regulated by the state, federal or municipal government regarding the consumer the fan enters a "free" contract with the players and owners who are supplying entertainment.

Because this is a "free" contract the fan is not obliged or required by law to pay for said entertainment and can redirect incomes to entertainment he/she feels is a better use of their income.

On the flip side owners are free to charge what they believe is fair price as long as demand is met. Also, players are able to negotiate what they feel is a fair wage or take their services elsewhere when their contract is up.

In a free market system like that where owners make a profit, players are paid a fair wage and prices are set such that demand is satisfied there are no victims. If a team cannot satisfy all of those requirements the ownership would need to raise prices, lower prices, cut wages, increase wages or relocate the team to an environment more friendly to the type of business they would like to run.
- fattybeef

Your analysis is spot on....

I have been very pessimistic about a quick settlement. Despite a loss season and a 50% increase in revenues since then. Bettman is zeroed in correcting his "mistakes" from 8 years ago. Good luck. Fehr and the players are not going to dance to his tune this time. Everything I am reading has the players angry and psssed off at Bettman.

This article lays out Bettman's dilemna: what happens after about 8 games are lost at/or around 11/1.
http://www.sportsnet.ca/h...l_nhlpa_midnight_strikes/

Actually there are no victims as no one forces a fan to watch a game or go to the stadium.

Since both activities are not regulated by the state, federal or municipal government regarding the consumer the fan enters a "free" contract with the players and owners who are supplying entertainment.

Because this is a "free" contract the fan is not obliged or required by law to pay for said entertainment and can redirect incomes to entertainment he/she feels is a better use of their income.

On the flip side owners are free to charge what they believe is fair price as long as demand is met. Also, players are able to negotiate what they feel is a fair wage or take their services elsewhere when their contract is up.

In a free market system like that where owners make a profit, players are paid a fair wage and prices are set such that demand is satisfied there are no victims. If a team cannot satisfy all of those requirements the ownership would need to raise prices, lower prices, cut wages, increase wages or relocate the team to an environment more friendly to the type of business they would like to run.
- fattybeef

This.

Sadly our free market system has been pretty (frank)ing far from being truly free for a long time, and continues to become less free every day.

I don't feel sorry for the players or the owners during this labor dispute, but I do feel sorry for all the support workers that are employed by each club. There are plenty of "average Joes/Janes" that work within the NHL umbrella and probably think they have a dream job working for their local NHL team. Now many employees have either lost their job or taken a reduction in pay. The players and owners are millionaires and billionaires, it's not right that somebody making $35,000 a year and trying to support a family loses their job. I would honestly never work for an NHL team's head office for this very reason.

Thirty teams means:

1. More jobs for players - good for the NHLPA
2. TV contracts have more value - good for the NHL

For those two reasons, contraction will never happen.

Best solution is revenue sharing combined with relocation of financially worst teams.

1. Nuke Phoenix and the next worst balance sheet and move them to Hamilton and Quebec.

2. You remove the worst bleeders and actually reduce the revenue sharing needed to keep them afloat.

But that will never happen because the Leafs will never let an NHL team in their market, Bettman seems destined to not admit failure in some of the US markets, and most importantly, the most financially successful franchises are greedy bastardos who won't share a nickel.

I say the players should put forth this exact proposal and be prepared to take Bettman's Winter Classicgasm away until they get it.
- Return of the Roar

1) Forget all about Hamilton permanently - they have a 27 year old arena not up to NHL standards and it is a distressed city with a decayed downtown core and an eroded tax base because many thousands of steel industry jobs went away. Trust me on this, I grew up there. And it is within Buffalo and Toronto's territorial boundary.

2) How does 30 teams make TV contracts more valuable? When do you ever see a game on U.S. National TV that doesn't involve Pittsburgh, Philly, Boston, Chicago, Washington, Detroit or the Rangers? The rest of the teams don't matter in the U.S. And in Canada, nobody could care less about watching teams from the false hockey markets of the U.S. South and Columbus, New Jersey etc.

Thirty teams means:

1. More jobs for players - good for the NHLPA
2. TV contracts have more value - good for the NHL

For those two reasons, contraction will never happen.

Best solution is revenue sharing combined with relocation of financially worst teams.

1. Nuke Phoenix and the next worst balance sheet and move them to Hamilton and Quebec.

2. You remove the worst bleeders and actually reduce the revenue sharing needed to keep them afloat.

But that will never happen because the Leafs will never let an NHL team in their market, Bettman seems destined to not admit failure in some of the US markets, and most importantly, the most financially successful franchises are greedy bastardos who won't share a nickel.

I say the players should put forth this exact proposal and be prepared to take Bettman's Winter Classicgasm away until they get it.
- Return of the Roar

I'm thinking Quebec and Seattle myself. Seattle would be a natural rival to the evil empire just to the north. The Portland Rose Garden would be a repeat of the Peg, small venue requiring high tix prices to stay afloat.

This.

Sadly our free market system has been pretty (frank)ing far from being truly free for a long time, and continues to become less free every day.
- Ogilthorpe2

Ogi,

The only problem with a purer free market approach to hockey is that if balance sheets ruled the sport, there would only be half as many teams, and likely no national TV contract.

That is not a prescription for growing the sport over the long haul. All of the other major sports have proven this to be true.

Would fans ultimately be content with a ten to twelve team league where we go back to the days of pay per view with no prospect of growing the sport?

At the end of the day the $10MM a year plus TV contract deals and the exposure that goes with them are the best path to growth. It is all in how the pot is split that the success of a league will be determined.

Until the Torontos, Chicagos, Bostons and Phillys of the world understand it is in their franchises' best interests to ensure the health of other teams, we will continue to revisit work stoppages.

2) How does 30 teams make TV contracts more valuable? When do you ever see a game on U.S. National TV that doesn't involve Pittsburgh, Philly, Boston, Chicago, Washington, Detroit or the Rangers? The rest of the teams don't matter in the U.S. And in Canada, nobody could care less about watching teams from the false hockey markets of the U.S. South and Columbus, New Jersey etc.
- RickJ

Total potential viewership is the metric used by networks to sell ads. Grow the sport and you grow the audiences.

I think within 5 years that Quebec City and Seattle will have NHL teams. Both cities are building new NHL arenas.

Your analysis is spot on....

I have been very pessimistic about a quick settlement. Despite a loss season and a 50% increase in revenues since then. Bettman is zeroed in correcting his "mistakes" from 8 years ago. Good luck. Fehr and the players are not going to dance to his tune this time. Everything I am reading has the players angry and psssed off at Bettman.

This article lays out Bettman's dilemna: what happens after about 8 games are lost at/or around 11/1.
http://www.sportsnet.ca/h...l_nhlpa_midnight_strikes/
- bogiedoc

Have you ever met a union employee that is not angry with management? Without angry employees the union doesn't exist.

I think within 5 years that Quebec City and Seattle will have NHL teams. Both cities are building new NHL arenas.
- dan9189

Those 2 cities would be on the top of my list for new franchises, I think Seattle would do particularly well.

Total potential viewership is the metric used by networks to sell ads. Grow the sport and you grow the audiences.
- Return of the Roar

Here's the facts:

1) 9 Teams in the NHL make money; about 5 or 6 of those 9 make big money. I think we can guess who those teams are.

2) The remaining 21 are losers financially regardless of TV revenue etc. In those markets, winning is the only thing that really raises interest and awareness to watch in person or on TV.

So TV may want 30 teams so they have programming, but the reality is there are probably not more than 20 big league markets in North America for NHL hockey.

And Bettman has been trying to grow the sport and audiences in too many obscure markets for too long without any success.

Have you ever met a union employee that is not angry with management? Without angry employees the union doesn't exist.
- moylander

So the solution is easy - employers should make employees happy.

Here's the facts:

1) 9 Teams in the NHL make money; about 5 or 6 of those 9 make big money. I think we can guess who those teams are.

2) The remaining 21 are losers financially regardless of TV revenue etc. In those markets, winning is the only thing that really raises interest and awareness to watch in person or on TV.

So TV may want 30 teams so they have programming, but the reality is there are probably not more than 20 big league markets in North America for NHL hockey.

And Bettman has been trying to grow the sport and audiences in too many obscure markets for too long without any success.
- RickJ

DING DING DING DING

Because he thought the game could be expanded by simply putting it in novel markets—while doing nothing to legitimately expand the appeal of the game, ie, expanding it culturally.

All the expansion happened in the U.S., a place where the Asian, hispanic and African-American communities are growing much faster than the white population. Yet the game remains almost completely lily white and really only accessible to wealthy kids (in America—which then also means mostly white kids).

Legitimate geographic expansion cannot happen until cultural expansion—and therefore expansion in demand—happens. Until then, there will be a semi-welfare state in the NHL propping up Gary the Clown's mistakes.

DING DING DING DING

Because he thought the game could be expanded by simply putting it in novel markets—while doing nothing to legitimately expand the appeal of the game, ie, expanding it culturally.

All the expansion happened in the U.S., a place where the Asian, hispanic and African-American communities are growing much faster than the white population. Yet the game remains almost completely lily white and really only accessible to wealthy kids (in America—which then also means mostly white kids).

Legitimate geographic expansion cannot happen until cultural expansion—and therefore expansion in demand—happens. Until then, there will be a semi-welfare state in the NHL propping up Gary the Clown's mistakes.
- John Jaeckel

But you need TV as an important component to facilitate the cultural change. Sadly....

So the solution is easy - employers should make employees happy.
- Return of the Roar

Generally, brands/companies that succeed over time do just that.

But you need TV as an important component to facilitate the cultural change. Sadly....
- Return of the Roar

You need:

- increased exposure of minority players/stars
- more rinks, cheaper access to equipment and ice time
- more promotion in minority communities

It takes money and time. Hockey is for Everyone is a good, albeit small start.

It's good that's all you have to say because you don't know what you're talking about. Without a union you get fu@#ed.

For the 2010-11 season, the NHL's average player salary was $2.4 million and the minimum wage was $500,000. Just prior to the formation of the National Hockey League Players Association (NHLPA) in 1967, it was rumored that players averaged about $10,000 to $15,000 per year, with no pension or healthcare plans. It was also common for pre-union NHLers to work summer jobs to support their families. In 1955, Tim Horton, star defensemen for the Toronto Maple Leafs, summer construction worker and namesake of the popular coffee-and-doughnut franchise, broke his leg in a game. If a player missed a game, which Horton did miss several, he wasn't paid. And with no healthcare plan and no income, the Horton family struggled mightily to pay the bills. After the injury, Horton wasn't as effective, to which the Leafs management cried "indifferent play" and cut his salary the following year.

Such treatment inspired the Detroit Red Wings' Ted Lindsay to rally the players to form a union during the late 1950s. To cripple the movement, the Red Wings traded Lindsay to Chicago, where he was less effective in organizing key players to join him. Other influential players across the league were also traded away or banished to the minor leagues. Lindsay was successful in creating a small association of players, but the group folded shortly after Lindsay was traded. It wasn't until 1967 that the players were able to unite in enough numbers to convince the owners to recognize the demands of the NHLPA, and not punish players for being members.
- fattyboubatty

+1

Not to get too political here, but wishing unions to go away is equal to wishing the Middle Class to to away. I would bet most people who are anti-union are well above the Middle Class. Every day the great divide between the rich and the poor in this country is widening, and one day in the not-to-distant future it will come to a head.

Back to hockey... (Frank) the Owners!!

Generally, brands/companies that succeed over time do just that.
- John Jaeckel

Yep. Just visited that correlation in an executive leadership course last week.