Did you believe the owners last time as well when they said a cap would lower ticket prices?
- Blazed

I'm not saying they didn't make mistakes... Lowering ticket prices wasn't really an option. Is it their fault that players are making so much? Sure... Is it the the owner's right to renegotiate once a CBA has expired? You better believe it.

I'm not saying they didn't make mistakes... Lowering ticket prices wasn't really an option. Is it their fault that players are making so much? Sure... Is it the the owner's right to renegotiate once a CBA has expired? You better believe it.
- laughs2907

Sure they do. And though I am suspect on Fehr the owners under Bettman traditionally have not negotiated in good faith. To use the fans (lockout) as leverage 3 times is unacceptable.

Fehr is contributing to the lock out as well but why not take the optional year of the CBA and negotiate until a deal is done. 50-50 split. Bettman believes two things; the players will eventually break and the fans will come back yet again.

Sure they do. And though I am suspect on Fehr the owners under Bettman traditionally have not negotiated in good faith. To use the fans (lockout) as leverage 3 times is unacceptable.

Fehr is contributing to the lock out as well but why not take the optional year of the CBA and negotiate until a deal is done. 50-50 split. Bettman believes two things; the players will eventually break and the fans will come back yet again.
- Blazed

Both Bettman and Fehr are poison when it comes to fans. Look at both of their track-records... They both seem incredibly full of themselves as well, so I think that will hurt the negotiating process... Everyone is saying 50/50, and I agree that that's a fair deal...I don't think either of them wants to give in though.

I have to say that I respect the owners a lot more than I do the players... The players are handling this all wrong, and it's pissing off a lot of fans. It's very unprofessional to publicly bad mouth your bosses, and play the pity card when the average salary in the league is 2.4 million. Hearing guys b1tch about their million dollar salaries (for playing hockey) and then attempting to use the fans as leverage is beyond frustrating. They need to come back to planet Earth. They need to shut their (frank)ing mouths and save it for behind closed doors. They're not doing themselves any favors.

Both Bettman and Fehr are poison when it comes to fans. Look at both of their track-records... They both seem incredibly full of themselves as well, so I think that will hurt the negotiating process... Everyone is saying 50/50, and I agree that that's a fair deal...I don't think either of them wants to give in though.

I have to say that I respect the owners a lot more than I do the players... The players are handling this all wrong, and it's pissing off a lot of fans. It's very unprofessional to publicly bad mouth your bosses, and play the pity card when the average salary in the league is 2.4 million. Hearing guys b1tch about their million dollar salaries (for playing hockey) and then attempting to use the fans as leverage is beyond frustrating. They need to come back to planet Earth.
- laughs2907

So the owners are poor victims as well? heres the point of players being paid more... because of thankless fans like you and the rest of the playa haters... im not saying the players arent whinners, but by the owners not putting themselves out there, you have no targets to female dog about. the players are the ones who get cut, bruised have to show up to every function thats demanded of them, deal with all the whinney fans and then the pressure to preform. What do the owners do? take all the risk by buying a team? Sure theres risk, but the risks could be mitigated if they were put in strong hockey markets. Next if the owners didnt like the payouts they dont A; have to spend to the cap, and B sign these big (frank)ing contracts. Im sure theres more to it, but to say the players are the babies and all is silly. Who makes all the cash in boxing or other related sports? does GSP hand out more money to his trainer? i doubt it, if youre the one getting punched you should be paid more... plain and simple

Sure they do. And though I am suspect on Fehr the owners under Bettman traditionally have not negotiated in good faith. To use the fans (lockout) as leverage 3 times is unacceptable.

Fehr is contributing to the lock out as well but why not take the optional year of the CBA and negotiate until a deal is done. 50-50 split. Bettman believes two things; the players will eventually break and the fans will come back yet again.
- Blazed

i agree... i believe it was fehr who said they could operate under the current cba and negotiate till one is reached sans interruption of the season...

So the owners are poor victims as well? heres the point of players being paid more... because of thankless fans like you and the rest of the playa haters... im not saying the players arent whinners, but by the owners not putting themselves out there, you have no targets to female dog about. the players are the ones who get cut, bruised have to show up to every function thats demanded of them, deal with all the whinney fans and then the pressure to preform. What do the owners do? take all the risk by buying a team? Sure theres risk, but the risks could be mitigated if they were put in strong hockey markets. Next if the owners didnt like the payouts they dont A; have to spend to the cap, and B sign these big (frank)ing contracts. Im sure theres more to it, but to say the players are the babies and all is silly. Who makes all the cash in boxing or other related sports? does GSP hand out more money to his trainer? i doubt it, if youre the one getting punched you should be paid more... plain and simple
- munky123

BY FAR...

The absolute dumbest thing I have ever read on this site, and I've been here for 6 years. Congrats.

i agree... i believe it was fehr who said they could operate under the current cba and negotiate till one is reached sans interruption of the season...
- munky123

Too bad Fehr is not in charge of the owners. Good luck pulling that sh1t (publicly belittling them, and telling them you will work for an expired CBA) with your boss in real life. Actually, give that a try with your next employer, and let me know how it goes.

Too bad Fehr is not in charge of the owners. Good luck pulling that sh1t with your boss in real life. Actually, give that a try with your next employer, and let me know how it goes.


- laughs2907

There business partners not employees.

There business partners not employees.
- Blazed

Ultimately it's up to the owners.

BY FAR...

The absolute dumbest thing I have ever read on this site, and I've been here for 6 years. Congrats.
- laughs2907

i dont even know what to retort to that. The fact that my opinion is one of the dumbest things youve read says alot, cuts deep. I wsh you could have been more constructive and broke down the idiocy of my comment. I would have then either stated, "man that makes sense!!", or "dude i know how the real world works, i just dont know why the players are being poop on that anology of gsp is how i see the players in this situtaion" Seeing as ive been reading here for years, i know its not in your nature to speak logically....

If given a choice, NOBODY would pay to see Bettman. So tell me, how does he justify his salary? Maybe it is time we lock Gary out....for good.

it is what the job pays !

depends on what JOB EVALUATION methodology was used to determine salary relative to the other jobs in the NHL executive office/NHL organization/NHL industry

so is the job evaluation premised on the person's skills (they are so special no one else on Earth can do what they do) or is it premised on the job requirements (does the person have the knowledge, abilities, skills, competence relative to the other candidates to do the job)?

Too bad Fehr is not in charge of the owners. Good luck pulling that sh1t (publicly belittling them, and telling them you will work for an expired CBA) with your boss in real life. Actually, give that a try with your next employer, and let me know how it goes.


- laughs2907

Maybe its me being naive and not accepting the sport as a business... I dont relate the game in the business sense and i doubt the players do either... Sure they make money, but the sacrifice and the pressure of the sport not to mention the excitiment they get from playing im sure its more to them than a business.. I hope they get paid more, but ultimately i hope for a 50/50 split... My problem is i dont see why the players are taking heat, moreso than the owners.

Maybe its me being naive and not accepting the sport as a business... I dont relate the game in the business sense and i doubt the players do either... Sure they make money, but the sacrifice and the pressure of the sport not to mention the excitiment they get from playing im sure its more to them than a business.. I hope they get paid more, but ultimately i hope for a 50/50 split... My problem is i dont see why the players are taking heat, moreso than the owners.
- munky123

If they didn't view it as a business, they wouldn't be taking 57% right now. Don't underestimate them.

i dont even know what to retort to that. The fact that my opinion is one of the dumbest things youve read says alot, cuts deep. I wsh you could have been more constructive and broke down the idiocy of my comment. I would have then either stated, "man that makes sense!!", or "dude i know how the real world works, i just dont know why the players are being poop on that anology of gsp is how i see the players in this situtaion" Seeing as ive been reading here for years, i know its not in your nature to speak logically....
- munky123

The players get paid so well because of thankless fans like me? That doesn't even make sense. If that were the case, every politician, blogger, and person working in retail would be billionaires.

You're blaming the owners for not whining to the general public? WHAT? They're trying to go about this professionally behind closed doors... People don't want to hear players b1tch about money... It's insulting, or should be insulting to the average Joe. I thank the owners for keeping this classy and professional.

You grossly underestimate the duties of an owner. I do agree that many owners are idiots though (I dislike many of the contracts being handed out), but they do a lot, and they have an incredible amount of expenses/risks.

I don't know how much GSP pays his trainer, but I'd be interested in knowing how much of what he generates goes to the UFC.

If they didn't view it as a business, they wouldn't be taking 57% right now. Don't underestimate them.
- laughs2907

youre right, and upon reflection i have viewed this pretty black and white, i should and often rather take the more objective view. but in this case ive been more one sided... I just get a different feel... 3 lockouts in how many years, that cant be on the players. People call the players greedy, but to watch this sport you have to already accept its always about greed at the end of the day for the NHL. the players reap the rewards of a corporate world. They are lucky and have worked hard to get to where they are. (frank)ing pay them! too naive, 100% but again were not at the meetings so i can say what ever the (frank) i want!!

a quick comment on the players that are leaving, i cant help but look at it from the angle that maybe some of these guys dont care either way, they just want to play. The NHL has the best product, best fans and better cities to play in, thats why people from all over the word want to play here. You can make big if not bigger money in the khl or elsewhere if players really wanted to get paid. IF we could play make believe, at the end of the day ii think the players should get PAAAiiddd! regardless of all the filler, my black and white view, i dont see how the players are the guys who are the whiners... From what ive seen the owners first proposal was 43p/57NHL and theyve been working on that, whos being the female dog? that offer is ridiculous!!

Either way at the end of the day its a poopty position were in. I miss the days for being called an idiot for thinking the habs MIGHT actually make the playoffs and will probably be tops of the N.W

So the owners are poor victims as well? heres the point of players being paid more... because of thankless fans like you and the rest of the playa haters... im not saying the players arent whinners, but by the owners not putting themselves out there, you have no targets to female dog about. the players are the ones who get cut, bruised have to show up to every function thats demanded of them, deal with all the whinney fans and then the pressure to preform. What do the owners do? take all the risk by buying a team? Sure theres risk, but the risks could be mitigated if they were put in strong hockey markets. Next if the owners didnt like the payouts they dont A; have to spend to the cap, and B sign these big (frank)ing contracts. Im sure theres more to it, but to say the players are the babies and all is silly. Who makes all the cash in boxing or other related sports? does GSP hand out more money to his trainer? i doubt it, if youre the one getting punched you should be paid more... plain and simple
- munky123

This is the most narrow and short sighted comment I have read yet. The players who currently enjoy a 57% share of revenues are a bunch of whinners and don't care anymore about the game or fans than the owners side. When you have players and reps for the union saying they are willing to negotiate but they won't accept anything less than what they are currently getting......then you tell me, who's the problem in this situation. You can't honestly dumb down the arguement to the point where you think the only thing/risk for owners is the purchase of the team....can you? Their risks and obligations extend much further than just buying the team. The number of people employed by Nhl teams far exceeds that of the players who take the ice...the amount of work and money it takes just to give these players a place to play every night is substantial. As far as the cap issue....of course they don't have to spend to the cap, but when most teams don't the reaction of the fans is that the owner isn't commited to putting a winning team on the ice. Not only that, but you know there is pressure to sign big ufa's, particularly if a direct competitor has already done so......that's why trade deadline and jly 1 are often referred to as 'arms races'. That doesn't let them off the hook in my book....the owners bare responsibilty and accountability.

The truth of the matter is that the players do not deserve more of the revenue than the owners. A 50/50 split is equitable, because without the owners the players have nowhere to play...well I guess there's always Russia. Yes and without the players there's no league...so both sides need each other equally.

In regards to your GSP comment....please...you've got that one backwards, because in your scenario GSP is actually the employer and the trainer the employee. A more accurate analogy would have been using Dana White/UFC and GSP. Now I know you can't be so naive as to think the UFC pays it's fighters more than 50% of its revenues...can you? Maybe that's why you didn't use the proper analogy...likely because it would disprove your point.

Point is how many businesses can continue to be viable when they are spending more money then they are bringing in? The answer isn't to move every struggling team to Canada...there is such a thing as a saturation point.

Look, neither side is right in this situation. These negotiations should have started well over a year ago and both sides are to blame for that. The players though have to acknowledge that they play a game for a living and get generously compensated to do so. I mean how much is enough? Why should one 30 goal scorer make so much more than another just by the virtue of where the cap limit is raised? Both sides deserve their fair share...but i,m sorry there are a lot more financial considerations on the onwership side and hey, why aren't ALL of the owners entitled to make a profit on their business....why are the players the only one's guaranteed a profit?

The players get paid so well because of thankless fans like me? That doesn't even make sense. If that were the case, every politician, blogger, and person working in retail would be billionaires.

You're blaming the owners for not whining to the general public? WHAT? They're trying to go about this professionally behind closed doors... People don't want to hear players b1tch about money... It's insulting, or should be insulting to the average Joe. I thank the owners for keeping this classy and professional.

You grossly underestimate the duties of an owner. I do agree that many owners are idiots though (I dislike many of the contracts being handed out), but they do a lot, and they have an incredible amount of expenses/risks.

I don't know how much GSP pays his trainer, but I'd be interested in knowing how much of what he generates goes to the UFC.
- laughs2907

well said, and way to many loose ideas in one blurp...


i take the lack of respect towards the players, thankless... maybe to strong of a word tho. greed can not be apart of any rebuttal..

second, id love to hear an owners take on it, because to me this is a public enterprise. Major corps, ie pharmaceuticals, have to be transparent id love to hear an owner speak up, instead of bat boys kinda " we have the best fans in the world" rhetoric. Why is it insulting or crass of players to talk about money? we talk about their contracts and build our fantasy teams based on their money!!! Plus they deserve every (frank)ing penny...

Oh really? so owners are really have it tough? i will agree they have a poop ton of duties, but they are billionaires that make some good coin off their teams. That being said, they dont value the fan like players do, IMO. previous owners like the one in chicago, no tv rights, didnt invest whats so ever, was just an original 6 money pit for him... not to mention history of, better money over better player decisions, owners have been guilty to make over time.owners have never really had our best interests at heart. where as players, IMO, have and for the most part over hockey history been all about the fans. Why side with the owners? if we cant get a 50/50 split, till then im with players getting paid, like ive exhaust fully repeated in numerous senseless write ups...

Touche, GSP vs UFC

youre right, and upon reflection i have viewed this pretty black and white, i should and often rather take the more objective view. but in this case ive been more one sided... I just get a different feel... 3 lockouts in how many years, that cant be on the players. People call the players greedy, but to watch this sport you have to already accept its always about greed at the end of the day for the NHL. the players reap the rewards of a corporate world. They are lucky and have worked hard to get to where they are. (frank)ing pay them! too naive, 100% but again were not at the meetings so i can say what ever the (frank) i want!!
- munky123

The state of the NHL isn't as good as everyone says. 18 teams lost money last season... The record revenues were due to 5-6 super teams. I hate both sides, but I'm leaning towards the owners, because at least the owners don't pretend to care. I think the players are being unprofessional, and I think they're lying to their fans. They say they love the game, and they only want to play... LIES! They could easily reduce their share from 57%, play the game, and still be millionaires who will make more money in one season than I'll ever see in my entire life.

i dont see how the players are the guys who are the whiners... From what ive seen the owners first proposal was 43p/57NHL and theyve been working on that, whos being the female dog? that offer is ridiculous!!
- munky123

I agree, that is ridiculous... Just like the current 57/43 in favor of the players is ridiculous. I truly believe that the owners target is 50/50, but if they ask for that, they won't get it... They need to overshoot, because rarely do participants in negotiations get what they initially ask for... There will be counter offers etc etc.

Either way at the end of the day its a poopty position were in. I miss the days for being called an idiot for thinking the habs MIGHT actually make the playoffs and will probably be tops of the N.W
- munky123

I've been called an idiot more than once for being an Oilers fan. I feel your pain.

This is the most narrow and short sighted comment I have read yet. The players who currently enjoy a 57% share of revenues are a bunch of whinners and don't care anymore about the game or fans than the owners side. When you have players and reps for the union saying they are willing to negotiate but they won't accept anything less than what they are currently getting......then you tell me, who's the problem in this situation. You can't honestly dumb down the arguement to the point where you think the only thing/risk for owners is the purchase of the team....can you? Their risks and obligations extend much further than just buying the team. The number of people employed by Nhl teams far exceeds that of the players who take the ice...the amount of work and money it takes just to give these players a place to play every night is substantial. As far as the cap issue....of course they don't have to spend to the cap, but when most teams don't the reaction of the fans is that the owner isn't commited to putting a winning team on the ice. Not only that, but you know there is pressure to sign big ufa's, particularly if a direct competitor has already done so......that's why trade deadline and jly 1 are often referred to as 'arms races'. That doesn't let them off the hook in my book....the owners bare responsibilty and accountability.

The truth of the matter is that the players do not deserve more of the revenue than the owners. A 50/50 split is equitable, because without the owners the players have nowhere to play...well I guess there's always Russia. Yes and without the players there's no league...so both sides need each other equally.

In regards to your GSP comment....please...you've got that one backwards, because in your scenario GSP is actually the employer and the trainer the employee. A more accurate analogy would have been using Dana White/UFC and GSP. Now I know you can't be so naive as to think the UFC pays it's fighters more than 50% of its revenues...can you? Maybe that's why you didn't use the proper analogy...likely because it would disprove your point.

Point is how many businesses can continue to be viable when they are spending more money then they are bringing in? The answer isn't to move every struggling team to Canada...there is such a thing as a saturation point.

Look, neither side is right in this situation. These negotiations should have started well over a year ago and both sides are to blame for that. The players though have to acknowledge that they play a game for a living and get generously compensated to do so. I mean how much is enough? Why should one 30 goal scorer make so much more than another just by the virtue of where the cap limit is raised? Both sides deserve their fair share...but i,m sorry there are a lot more financial considerations on the onwership side and hey, why aren't ALL of the owners entitled to make a profit on their business....why are the players the only one's guaranteed a profit?
- Sens2k5

100% agree, i see the flaws, way to many ideas with no filler. I agree with the GSP anology, to be fair i had smoked a doob befor and didnt proof read anything i wrote It worked in my head at the time haha... Ive taken too much of a black and white approach to it, based primarily on emotion vs being objective and using common sense. Still all i was trying to comment on was to me i think the players are getting poop on more than deserved.

When hockey gets going again, all these mouthy players should get suspended for conduct detrimental to the league. Not one owner has personally attacked a player; after all, that's the fan's job!

[quote=laughs2907]The state of the NHL isn't as good as everyone says. 18 teams lost money last season... The record revenues were due to 5-6 super teams. I hate both sides, but I'm leaning towards the owners, because at least the owners don't pretend to care. I think the players are being unprofessional, and I think they're lying to their fans. They say they love the game, and they only want to play... LIES! They could easily reduce their share from 57%, play the game, and still be millionaires who will make more money in one season than I'll ever see in my entire life.

How do they pretend to care? There lies another problem i have with the owners. Why do they commit to having teams in failing markets? Is that a player problem? Sure they could release there amount from 57 i agree, but the owners arent giving up to much on how much they want it reduced to... the only thing ive really read was that 43/57 split which anyone in their right mind will say a big f u c k you!! Has the NHL confirmed they offered a 50/50 split?

This is the most narrow and short sighted comment I have read yet. The players who currently enjoy a 57% share of revenues are a bunch of whinners and don't care anymore about the game or fans than the owners side. When you have players and reps for the union saying they are willing to negotiate but they won't accept anything less than what they are currently getting......then you tell me, who's the problem in this situation. You can't honestly dumb down the arguement to the point where you think the only thing/risk for owners is the purchase of the team....can you? Their risks and obligations extend much further than just buying the team. The number of people employed by Nhl teams far exceeds that of the players who take the ice...the amount of work and money it takes just to give these players a place to play every night is substantial. As far as the cap issue....of course they don't have to spend to the cap, but when most teams don't the reaction of the fans is that the owner isn't commited to putting a winning team on the ice. Not only that, but you know there is pressure to sign big ufa's, particularly if a direct competitor has already done so......that's why trade deadline and jly 1 are often referred to as 'arms races'. That doesn't let them off the hook in my book....the owners bare responsibilty and accountability.

The truth of the matter is that the players do not deserve more of the revenue than the owners. A 50/50 split is equitable, because without the owners the players have nowhere to play...well I guess there's always Russia. Yes and without the players there's no league...so both sides need each other equally.

In regards to your GSP comment....please...you've got that one backwards, because in your scenario GSP is actually the employer and the trainer the employee. A more accurate analogy would have been using Dana White/UFC and GSP. Now I know you can't be so naive as to think the UFC pays it's fighters more than 50% of its revenues...can you? Maybe that's why you didn't use the proper analogy...likely because it would disprove your point.

Point is how many businesses can continue to be viable when they are spending more money then they are bringing in? The answer isn't to move every struggling team to Canada...there is such a thing as a saturation point.

Look, neither side is right in this situation. These negotiations should have started well over a year ago and both sides are to blame for that. The players though have to acknowledge that they play a game for a living and get generously compensated to do so. I mean how much is enough? Why should one 30 goal scorer make so much more than another just by the virtue of where the cap limit is raised? Both sides deserve their fair share...but i,m sorry there are a lot more financial considerations on the onwership side and hey, why aren't ALL of the owners entitled to make a profit on their business....why are the players the only one's guaranteed a profit?
- Sens2k5

I... I... I love you.

[quote=Sens2k5Point is how many businesses can continue to be viable when they are spending more money then they are bringing in? The answer isn't to move every struggling team to Canada...there is such a thing as a saturation point.

Look, neither side is right in this situation. These negotiations should have started well over a year ago and both sides are to blame for that. The players though have to acknowledge that they play a game for a living and get generously compensated to do so. I mean how much is enough? Why should one 30 goal scorer make so much more than another just by the virtue of where the cap limit is raised? Both sides deserve their fair share...but i,m sorry there are a lot more financial considerations on the onwership side and hey, why aren't ALL of the owners entitled to make a profit on their business....why are the players the only one's guaranteed a profit?


i can agree with all of that, but they dont all have to move to canada tho. more northern American cities could work and they could benefit from cross border fans. Once those new markets are established slowly move more south... The owners should make moneys, no argument there, but ive previously said that players i think take more punches, thus they should get more of our money. Greed aside

I think the EXPANSION teams that are failing are a direct result of poor management on the NHL and the owners part. Thus arguing with them or against the players is like justifying this situation, a situation they've ultimately created. I cant agree with that...

How do they pretend to care? There lies another problem i have with the owners. Why do they commit to having teams in failing markets? Is that a player problem? Sure they could release there amount from 57 i agree, but the owners arent giving up to much on how much they want it reduced to... the only thing ive really read was that 43/57 split which anyone in their right mind will say a big f u c k you!! Has the NHL confirmed they offered a 50/50 split?
- munky123

Check out that video, and some of their Twitter comments... Blah blah blah, we're so sorry, fans. We just love the game, and all we want to do is play... This isn't our decision, this is the owner's decision...

Meanwhile, 60% of the league is losing money.

Usually when a contract/CBA is up, and most owners in an industry is losing money, a more owner friendly CBA will be negotiated.

Regarding the failing market thing, yes... It's actually a player problem and an owner problem. You can't work in an industry and only be associated with the successful segments, that's not how it works. You're a product of your entire market. I'm not saying this wasn't Bettman's/the owner's fault, but it is reality. Players have to give up a little... If they don't, they may be putting the NHL (and some of their careers) in jeopardy. I've worked for companies where I ended up having to take a pay-cut due to both internal/external factors... It's nothing new. It's business. As owners, you take chances. Sometimes they pay off, and sometimes they don't... If those markets all became huge successes, it's not like the players would be complaining that they're making too much money. They want the best of both worlds and that's not the way it works.

Check out that video, and some of their Twitter comments... Blah blah blah, we're so sorry, fans. We just love the game, and all we want to do is play... This isn't our decision, this is the owner's decision...

Meanwhile, 60% of the league is losing money.

Usually when a contract/CBA is up, and most owners in an industry is losing money, a more owner friendly CBA will be negotiated.

Regarding the failing market thing, yes... It's actually a player problem and an owner problem. You can't work in an industry and only be associated with the successful segments, that's not how it works. You're a product of your entire market. I'm not saying this wasn't Bettman's/the owner's fault, but it is reality. Players have to give up a little... If they don't, they may be putting the NHL (and some of their careers) in jeopardy. I've worked for companies where I ended up having to take a pay-cut due to both internal/external factors... It's nothing new. It's business. As owners, you take chances. Sometimes they pay off, and sometimes they don't... If those markets all became huge successes, it's not like the players would be complaining that they're making too much money. They want the best of both worlds and that's not the way it works.
- laughs2907

So then the owners are trying to fix a broken model by getting more money back only put a band aid on a big problem? would you expect a restructuring of the league at some point then?