So in other words, if a high-revenue team can get really creative with offer sheets so as to make it impossible for low-revenue teams to match with the resources they have
- Irish Blues[... and not need any assistance from any other team to do it], then have at it - and if low-revenue teams get turned into glorified feeder teams for the few that have nearly unlimited resources, that's OK.

Let's stick to reality, instead of pie-in-the-sky notions. Let's also frame this in a more general context that's applicable to all low-revenue teams, instead of having some obsessive fixation on what Nashville did.

Its not just nashville. Tampa did it with brad richards, the islanders are using the yashin buyoit as acrutch. Why should i feel sorry for small market teams cant spend or refuse to. It not the big markets fault that small market teams in the south and out west have a hard time generating fan fare.

Why do you care so much what Nashville does??It's not your damn money!!
- SouthNash

It affects the league as a whole. Even if the preds make the playoffs this year i doubt they break even. The we will have hear how matching the weber offer sheet was a lose-lose situation.

Just doing his job pointing out players make too much money.....
- Alexzanki

Wonder whose (frank)ing fault that is?

Its not just nashville. Tampa did it with brad richards, the islanders are using the yashin buyoit as acrutch. Why should i feel sorry for small market teams cant spend or refuse to. It not the big markets fault that small market teams in the south and out west have a hard time generating fan fare.
- blacksheep1

Sucks to be them, most of those cities don't even deserve teams.

It affects the league as a whole. Even if the preds make the playoffs this year i doubt they break even. The we will have hear how matching the weber offer sheet was a lose-lose situation.
- blacksheep1

Then they shouldn't have matched the offer...

Its not just nashville. Tampa did it with brad richards, the islanders are using the yashin buyoit as acrutch. Why should i feel sorry for small market teams cant spend or refuse to. It not the big markets fault that small market teams in the south and out west have a hard time generating fan fare.
- blacksheep1

Tampa had William Davidson as an owner; they were fine financially at that point. Davidson then sold to Koules and Barrier, who borrowed the money from Davidson and were morons handing out contracts and proceeded to try and run the Lightning into the ground as quickly as possible. They're now owned by Vinik, who has stabilized the team and they're sitting around 15 in terms of overall revenues. [Psst ... if they're #15 or over, they cannot get revenue sharing.] Besides, the Lightning dealt Richards off to Dallas in the 2nd year of that contract [shortly after Koules/Barrie agreed to buy the team, ... think that was a coincidence?] ... so really, it was more the Stars' problem.

The Islanders are in an antiquated arena with a terrible lease, have been terrible on the ice since the '06-07 season, and quite arguably crappy management for years. Yashin was playing like poop and the Isles had the chance to unload him for 2/3rds of his remaining contract payable over 2x the remaining length; that was an incredibly smart decision. Keeping him around would have made the team much worse, both on the ice and on the books.

BTW, please name the small market teams that "refuse to" spend. Not the ones that are struggling to be able to [there's at least 15 of them, maybe as many as 18], the ones that refuse to.

Finally, it's also not the fault of the teams in small markets that they can't grow revenues at 10-12% or more like teams in large markets. It's also not their fault that a team like Chicago had nearly basement-level revenues coming out of the lockout and are now sitting solidly in the top-10, or that the Canadian dollar has appreciated by over 25% post-lockout [to the benefit of the Canadian franchises] ... but you don't see me throwing large-market, high-revenue teams under the bus.

Sucks to be them, most of those cities don't even deserve teams.
- ShootingSemin

Can you list the criteria that determines when a city "deserves" a team? Could you then list the cities that fit that criteria?

Can the owners explain sport economics to us fans, all they are trying to say players need to make less money. Why? So they can keep increasing ticket prices and lower salaries to make a larger profit.
- roenick

larger profit? hardly half the owners are profiting... thats the problem

A key element of potential compromise is a phased-in repositioning of hockey-related revenue, going (by the NHL's revenue definition) from a 52-48 split in the players' favor in the first year, to 50-50 in year two to 48-52 in the third year and so on.
- Eklund, based on his 6:30 update remark

Yeah, no shock that the players aren't going to go for it; they progressively lose out on salary - especially if the NHL hasn't backed off of how it wants to redefine HRR.

If the NHL said "HRR stays as is, we'll split 50/50" they could probably get the NHLPA to bite, though if I'm the NHLPA I say "we'll base it off of a 50/50 split, but if you can't control yourself and overspend that you pick up half the burden." There's no reason the players should take the full hit when the owners contract for more than the pre-determined split; the owners should have to eat some of that.

speaking of hype machines..

polls ARE bs. but they do reflect opinion. people have their opinion and perceptions...that is what they measure
- Eklund

polls don't measure jack. they influence more than they measure. you keep talking about everyone's "agenda.' polls and pollsters are no different.

Just doing his job pointing out players make too much money.....
- Alexzanki

they dont make too much money, we pay to see them play for the teams we love therefore they deserve what ever they can get because the entertainment value is in them. If NHL teams had 11 year old playing for them then there wouldnt be as much revenue and salaries would be lower. that is not the case however so higher prices which we continue to pay means they deserve it.

Why should teams like Montreal and Toronto financially help other markets. It makes no sense! Does the NHL give Montreal a bigger cap to work with because of the 53% income tax players have to pay to play there?

If a city can't afford to run it's team because fans don;t show up or because their merchandise doesn't sell screw them....FOLD!

Quebec had to fold as did the Jets!

Screw Columbus TB FLO those markets don't deserve teams to begin with!

Why do you care so much what Nashville does??It's not your damn money!!
- SouthNash

No it's the Leafs, Flyers, Canadiens, and Ranger's money. Let's see average ticket to a Leafs home game is $183.45 and Nashville's average ticket price is $78.92. Not including the all you can eat seats which you can pick up for under $60

Bettman is doing exactly what the owners want him to do.
- NightTrain_AlMo

Exactly what they want him to? Ruin the sport? Take their profits and give it to the poor.

I can't see any owner in the league being happy with the Phoenix situation.

The guy is hated everywhere he goes, and wants players to make less than he does....think what you will, but I can guarantee some, if not many are getting tired of Bettman and his lock em out policy.

No league should have 3 lockouts in 15 years, let alone one that has a cba based on Bettman's ideas. This current cba was his baby, his plan, and now it has failed, he wants more from the players.

His tactics have worn thin, and I can say with confidence that Vancouver, Philly, and other big market teams are pi$$ed with his handling of the league and it's affairs.

Sounds fair, lets play hockey OR will the players just prove they are GREEDY

polls ARE bs. but they do reflect opinion. people have their opinion and perceptions...that is what they measure
- Eklund

How does a BS poll reflect genuine opinion?

Why should teams like Montreal and Toronto financially help other markets. It makes no sense! Does the NHL give Montreal a bigger cap to work with because of the 53% income tax players have to pay to play there?
- MatsNaslund

Because one day down the road, the [currently 7] Canadian teams may one again face an unfavorable exchange rate and need assistance from their brethren to the south. In face, Edmonton might arguably be on the verge of qualifying [and being able to use] revenue sharing right now; at $1.05CN = $1US Ottawa can no longer afford to spend 57% of revenues to hit the midpoint, at $1.08CN = $1US Calgary joins them, and somewhere in there Winnipeg joins them as well. At $1.19CN = $1US Edmonton can no longer afford to spend to the cap floor, and at $1.30CN = $1US Ottawa and Calgary join them [and Winnipeg has joined that group somewhere before $1.30CN].

Oh sure, I know - that will never happen, we're Canada, we've got an oil boom going, the U.S. is a financial black hole, and blah blah blah. Of course, if the U.S. goes into the black hole, Canada [who sends much of their exports and gets much of their imports from the U.S.] gets pulled in as well. Things are never going to happen - until they do; the time to start planning is not when you see the F5 tornado bearing down on your house as it obliterates your neighbor's house 2 doors down.

If a city can't afford to run it's team because fans don;t show up or because their merchandise doesn't sell screw them....FOLD!
- MatsNaslund

Yeah, you're right. We should have folded Edmonton back around 1998 when the team was teetering on the brink, no one was willing to step up, and the last option before EIG finally got together [and Bettman let them buy the team by making an exception to NHL rules regarding ownership] was an offer from Les Alexander to move the team to Houston.

:rolleyes:

Quebec had to fold as did the Jets!
- MatsNaslund

Relocation is not the same as folding. Please try to understand the difference between the two.

Screw Columbus TB FLO those markets don't deserve teams to begin with!
- MatsNaslund

I'll ask the question again: can you list the criteria that determines when a city "deserves" a team? Could you then list the cities that fit that criteria?

Exactly what they want him to? Ruin the sport? Take their profits and give it to the poor.

I can't see any owner in the league being happy with the Phoenix situation. The alternative was to open the door to someone being able to become an owner and relocate a team without the consent of the other owners by dragging a team into backruptcy, whether legitimate or done as a stunt because the BoG had already said "we don't want you in the club." I suspect the owners will take the uncertainty of the Phoenix franchise over ceding control of who gets in and where
- meduser[and when] teams can move every day of the week and thrice on Sunday.

The guy is hated everywhere he goes the owners don't care, and wants players to make less than he does you know that the NHL's offer forces players to have a maximum salary less than $8 million? Even if that's accurate, is that Bettman saying it should happen or the owners? ....think what you will, but I can guarantee some, if not many are getting tired of Bettman and his lock em out policy except the 29 owners, who have trusted Bettman to protect their interests - something he has done a great job of. Or, to put it another way, they're so disgusted with his tactics they only extended his contract another 5 years so he's under contract until 2016.

No league should have 3 lockouts in 15 years MLB had a pair of strikes and a lockout in a 10-year period under Fehr's watch; are you taking Fehr to task for any of that?, let alone one that has a cba based on Bettman's ideas really, he wrote the entire thing himself? No, the owners wanted cost certainty and though 57/43 would give everyone a chance to be profitable; everything else was negotiated between the two sides through ... collective bargaining. I sure as hell don't remember anyone saying back in 2005 that we'd see some of the things we've seen since then. This current cba was his baby, his plan see above, and now it has failed it hasn't failed - it hasn't worked as planned, but it's been a hell of a lot better than the system that was there before, he by "he" I assume you mean "the owners" wants more from the players.

His tactics have worn thin only with fans - and they don't dictate who is Commissioner, or is in charge of player discipline, or where teams are located and how they're operated, or who gets the next TV contract, ... I can keep going if need be, and I can say with confidence that Vancouver, Philly, and other big market teams are pi$$ed with his handling of the league and it's affairs Really? With confidence? If so many teams were pissed, it would only take 15 of them to get together and give him the boot; why hasn't someone stepped up and given him an ultimatum to quit or be fired?.

Comments in bold. I'm sure you'll claim I'm defending Bettman, but rest assured I can rip on both Fehr and Bettman equally well - as well as rip on the positions of both the players and owners [and have done so for quite a while now]. I just prefer facts to deliberate misinformation; others clearly prefer the latter because it fits the desired "Bettman is teh evil" mantra.

Sucks to be them, most of those cities don't even deserve teams.
- ShootingSemin

Why is that?

Dreger also reports:

NHL proposed a 6 year term today. Players Share: 2012/13 - 51.6% 2013/14 - 50.5% 2014/15 - 49.6% 2015/16 - 50% 2016/17 - 50% 2017/18 - 50%

-Garth's Blog Post

Who's source is right, Eks or Dregers?

Why should teams like Montreal and Toronto financially help other markets. It makes no sense! Does the NHL give Montreal a bigger cap to work with because of the 53% income tax players have to pay to play there?
?
If a city can't afford to run it's team because fans don;t show up or because their merchandise doesn't sell screw them....FOLD!

Quebec had to fold as did the Jets!

Screw Columbus TB FLO those markets don't deserve teams to begin with!
- MatsNaslund

The Jets and Quebec folded at the time because the Canadian dollar was almost half of what an American dollar was worth. Now, it's almost the exact opposite, why more markets want to open up in Canada

Comments in bold. I'm sure you'll claim I'm defending Bettman, but rest assured I can rip on both Fehr and Bettman equally well - as well as rip on the positions of both the players and owners
- Irish Blues[and have done so for quite a while now]. I just prefer facts to deliberate misinformation; others clearly prefer the latter because it fits the desired "Bettman is teh evil" mantra.

Jesus dude..did I pi$$ in your cornflakes?

You can have your opinions, I stated mine. I didn't think this was a board based on facts only, as it is an Eklund board.

So the cba wasn't a failure? Bettman and the owners(happy?) set out to cap players spending, lower total salary and make a lot of money. They made money yes, but the cap was Bettman's idea, and for the most part it has forced smaller market teams to raise their caps, and has forced the larger markets to pay out money to the smaller markets.

I am all for contraction. Lose 6 teams, and make the league strong. The lineup's would be loaded with talent, instead of ridiculous garbage like what Columbus iced last year. Then they whine about losing money, and do it again.

The opening shot from the owners/ Bettman was a slap to the face of the players and their fans. The only reason we go to games is for the players, and I don't see why the owners share of revenues should be higher than the investment in the product.

I couldn't give a crap about baseball, that is why I am on a hockey board.

In my opinion, Bettman thought he could run all over Fehr, and offered an insult(from the outside view, as we haven't seen all the details) as the opening shot. Fehr responded in what seems(from the outside, as we haven't seen all the details)in a smart retake of the leagues finances.


I don't like Bettman at all. I feel he has damaged the game in more ways than he has helped the game in his tenure. I heard Mike Gillis(Canuck's gm) on the TEAM 1040 in Vancouver talking about the Phoenix situation, and he said repeatedly that the Aquilini's are not happy with the Phoenix situation, and that they are shelling out their profits to pay other players on a different team. He also discussed other teams he had talked with that were unhappy with it....I guess I am still speculating..?Right from the GM's mouth....?

ah, screw it..not worth debating.....

Why should teams like Montreal and Toronto financially help other markets. It makes no sense! Does the NHL give Montreal a bigger cap to work with because of the 53% income tax players have to pay to play there?

If a city can't afford to run it's team because fans don;t show up or because their merchandise doesn't sell screw them....FOLD!

Quebec had to fold as did the Jets!

Screw Columbus TB FLO those markets don't deserve teams to begin with!
- MatsNaslund

just think about this, the nhl gave the yotes a crutch last year, yet they traded for vermette at the deadline. Think about that, 29 other teams paid the salary of not just vermette but the entire yotes team. if the islanders, preds and all the other teams that have a trouble turning profit continue down this road the big market teams and their fans will have pay through the nose in order to keep the small market teams in small market cities with their small number of fans. makes total sense, keep fighting the good fight.