McNabb is GOING to be a solid d-man (3/4/5 range). Gagner IS a solid top 6 player. One is proven, the other is not. Sorry, but in terms of straight up value, I almost certain that Gagner is worth more.
- MaximumBone

McNabb's upside far outweighs what Gagner brings to the table. You're right in the sense that one's proven (Gagner) but he just hasn't proven that much.

wow! now your stretching me! he just had a career year with 47 points and 18 goals. during a contract year. 17 points came in 4 games. 8 points coming in 1 night 4g/4a. 44 games without a point. nothing like datsyuk
- joshs

Gags does not = RNH

Gags does not = RNH
- BigDre

ahh thought it was about gag's i was like wait...what...o no he didn't! (finger snap/head bob) i am wrong. sorry.

McNabb's upside far outweighs what Gagner brings to the table. You're right in the sense that one's proven (Gagner) but he just hasn't proven that much.
- Pairo11

Hmmmm,

Second best player in his draft year...

Lets compare to the Sedins first NHL years...

Daniel:

00-01: 20-14-34
01-02: 9-23-32
02-03: 14-17-31
03-04: 18-36-54

Henrick:

00-01: 9-20-29
01-02: 16-20-36
02-03: 8-31-39
03-04: 11-31-42

I guess he has reached his peak though right? nope.

I think Gags is right on pace for development. I see him breaking out this year with some good wingers for a full year. I hope we keep him.

McNabb's upside far outweighs what Gagner brings to the table. You're right in the sense that one's proven (Gagner) but he just hasn't proven that much.
- Pairo11

I wouldn't say it FAR outweighs Gagner's potential. McNasty is a great prospect, but I just don't see his ceiling as being higher than a solid #3 d-man. Gagner has already proven his ability to play in an impact role (albeit, inconsistently). Both are still young with room to grow, though. It's good to hear other team's fans' stances on the value of both their own players and our players!

And yet everyone considers Gagner small at 5'11" 195 lbs.
- Al Hacker

5'10
180..mayyyybe 185


he's a small player. there's no two ways about it.
he may have added some bulk, but hes very short and small for the nhl.
one doesnt need to look it up to know this.
just watch a game or two.

now if he was st.louis good, that'd be a different story. but hes far far from it.
why do these facts upset oiler fans so much?

Depends on the player, yes. Trust me, I live in London so I see Carter, Perry, Kadri, Schremp, Prust etc. all the time. They list Kadri at 188, he is lucky if he is 160 (maybe bigger now since he is working out with Roberts).

I am 6' weigh 160lbs work out every day and have 8% body fat and I look like a beast next to Kadri & Ganger
- jsam7

LMAO are you kidding? 160lbs isn't a beast no where near it. Forget the 8%body fat crap that is more important to body builders or shirt stuffers. For example my body fat % is high but before my operation I was running at 5'9 210lbs Working with steel and pipes you need some meat on your bones. Now after 3 years of inactivity due to back operation I am now 5'9 245lbs. My arms and chest have dropped a bit to my belly instead of a 34 waist I now have a 40 waist. But back then I would put my fair share of young shirt stuffers on their 8% body fat A$$ in a fair fight.

For sure. Schneider is worth far more than just Gagner. The Canucks would never do that trade -- it's laughable. How about Raymond and Ballard for Eberle? That's almost as fair, right?
- Vagabond

Dude, I'm with you. Read the blog, Cloutier said he wouldn't do Gagner for Schneider, I'm saying we'd be fools not to jump all over it (and that it would never be offered).

Me and 21 of my friends signed up for the cause today... We all want to thank you for spearheading the cause.

When did we start souring on Armia? And Gagner isn't that much of an upgrade over what we already have at center so trading both McNabb and Armia for him is a complete rip off for the Sabres.

When did we start souring on Armia? And Gagner isn't that much of an upgrade over what we already have at center so trading both McNabb and Armia for him is a complete rip off for the Sabres.
- sabresfan365

We're not souring on him. Cloutier was dead wrong.

Here's a link from a couple days ago. Cloutier really should have done his homework before posting what he did.


http://www.nhl.com/ice/blogpost.htm?id=10971

Dubnyk may or may not be a starter. Enroth may be amazing. Point is that one may stumble, or worse, one may get injured. Teams like Boston and Vancouver have done really well having a strong backup. I don't think the Oilers would be wrong to have a 1B goalie. I am not sure that Dubnyk has proven he is a top 20 goalie and with Edmonton's defense it would help to have him competing for the position. As for leopold, I hope he is a throw in and the real dman is one of the others mentioned. Eklund said that wasn't the whole picture so maybe there is another asset from either side to balance it better.

In terms of Paajarvi... I would hate to see him go. I really would but someone has to. Edmonton can't hold on to everyone. They can't and right now they have 12 possible NHL ready players trying for the bottom 6 positions. Paajarvi has value and the oilers need to add to their back end. He might be good but he might have to be traded to fill a need the team has and it might be him because no one else is wanted.

as much as I feel he's overrated (not bad) I agree that buffalo gets the better of this deal. the argument that enroth has only played 41 games becomes irrelevent when pvr has played so little games as well. gagner for leopold is an over payment for leopold... but not so bad that edm gets "hosed" 2 quick things... one get that website up rich so I can sign up for your movement!
2... goes back to the last blog and the cba... I think RFA compensation should be changed. instead of 4 1sts for the higher contracts, the comp should be based on the next 2 years drafts. i.e. weber would have gotten nashville philly's 1st, 2nd, 3rd rounders in 2013 and their 1st and 2nd in 2014. A team loosing a star player needs replacements in the near future, not 3-4 years down the line. any thoughts?

as much as I feel he's overrated (not bad) I agree that buffalo gets the better of this deal. the argument that enroth has only played 41 games becomes irrelevent when pvr has played so little games as well. gagner for leopold is an over payment for leopold... but not so bad that edm gets "hosed" 2 quick things... one get that website up rich so I can sign up for your movement!
2... goes back to the last blog and the cba... I think RFA compensation should be changed. instead of 4 1sts for the higher contracts, the comp should be based on the next 2 years drafts. i.e. weber would have gotten nashville philly's 1st, 2nd, 3rd rounders in 2013 and their 1st and 2nd in 2014. A team loosing a star player needs replacements in the near future, not 3-4 years down the line. any thoughts?
- ChrisMS

As a Sabres fan, I can't understand why the Oil would want Leo, at this stage in his career. He is 32, and is one year away from UFA status. Sekera makes more sense for you guys. Also, I would rather keep Leo. He was one of our top d-men last year, and loves it in Buffalo apparently. Probably would re-sign here, if we offered.

As a Sabres fan, I can't understand why the Oil would want Leo, at this stage in his career. He is 32, and is one year away from UFA status. Sekera makes more sense for you guys. Also, I would rather keep Leo. He was one of our top d-men last year, and loves it in Buffalo apparently. Probably would re-sign here, if we offered.
- Powerslave

I completely agree Sekera makes much more sense. I would understand Gagner/Paajarvi for Enroth/Sekera and assets/picks to balance. Maybe a third round from Buffalo. Tough to tell who is winning this because truth is, they both have such a need that it all comes down to who negotiates better.

I do know this. If Dubnyk gets injured, Edmonton is screwed and if Buffalo doesn't get help at center it doesn't matter how the rest of their team looks. Carolina proved that when they one the cup. Keep puck possession and good things will eventually come to you. It starts with the face off.

I completely agree Sekera makes much more sense. I would understand Gagner/Paajarvi for Enroth/Sekera and assets/picks to balance. Maybe a third round from Buffalo. Tough to tell who is winning this because truth is, they both have such a need that it all comes down to who negotiates better.

I do know this. If Dubnyk gets injured, Edmonton is screwed and if Buffalo doesn't get help at center it doesn't matter how the rest of their team looks. Carolina proved that when they one the cup. Keep puck possession and good things will eventually come to you. It starts with the face off.
- bsteinley

It really seems like we have two teams here who could really help each other out, and both are dealing from positions of strength. I think Sekera would do really well in Edm. Great skater, and Edm has, year in and year out, the best sheet of ice in the NHL.

Gagne would either help us out at center, be an asset we use in a subsequent trade, or make someone else on our roster (Ennis? Though I would rather keep Ennis) expendable.

Then again, it's not so much what he IS worth, but what he's worth to the organization. In this situation, I guess I can understand the overvaluing. With Luongo on the way out, and no direct help past Schneids, his value is ten-folded to the 'Nucks organization. To other teams, though, he likely has just a tad more value than Dubnyk.


I see what you did there
- MaximumBone

I think Schneider has far, far more value than Dubnyk. Schneider is a potential franchise goaltender, Dubnyk has not shown anything close to that.

I think Schneider has far, far more value than Dubnyk. Schneider is a potential franchise goaltender, Dubnyk has not shown anything close to that.
- Vagabond

while i agree cory certainly has more value at this point, and has to be considered the better goaltender, i think you're going along with the hype more than actual facts.

cory has also played in a few more high profile games and been successful on a very good team which of course has helped his stock.

considering the number of starts, vast differences in quality of team in front of them, and dubnyks decent numbers, id say the gap isnt quite as huge as you've suggested.

they'll both start this year. ill think any assessment will be much more fair after the grind of 60+ starts

while i agree cory certainly has more value at this point, and has to be considered the better goaltender, i think you're going along with the hype more than actual facts.

cory has also played in a few more high profile games and been successful on a very good team which of course has helped his stock.

considering the number of starts, vast differences in quality of team in front of them, and dubnyks decent numbers, id say the gap isnt quite as huge as you've suggested.

they'll both start this year. ill think any assessment will be much more fair after the grind of 60+ starts
- hugefemale dog77

I've seen Dubnyk play many times in the past seasons and he's not developing all that positively. I'm not sure what 'facts' you're referring to -- certainly the numbers don't support Dubnyk becoming elite. Last season the main reason the Canucks won the President's trophy was their goaltending. So you actually have it backwards: Schneider and Luongo made the Canucks an elite team last season; the team did not make Schneider's numbers better. Sorry, but I cannot see them at even close to the same level. Schneider's potential is as an elite franchise goalie while Dubnyk's is a decent starting goalie. IMO, of course.

LMAO are you kidding? 160lbs isn't a beast no where near it. Forget the 8%body fat crap that is more important to body builders or shirt stuffers. For example my body fat % is high but before my operation I was running at 5'9 210lbs Working with steel and pipes you need some meat on your bones. Now after 3 years of inactivity due to back operation I am now 5'9 245lbs. My arms and chest have dropped a bit to my belly instead of a 34 waist I now have a 40 waist. But back then I would put my fair share of young shirt stuffers on their 8% body fat A$$ in a fair fight.
- longbottom

This is why I want you to be our ref.

I've seen Dubnyk play many times in the past seasons and he's not developing all that positively. I'm not sure what 'facts' you're referring to -- certainly the numbers don't support Dubnyk becoming elite. Last season the main reason the Canucks won the President's trophy was their goaltending. So you actually have it backwards: Schneider and Luongo made the Canucks an elite team last season; the team did not make Schneider's numbers better. Sorry, but I cannot see them at even close to the same level. Schneider's potential is as an elite franchise goalie while Dubnyk's is a decent starting goalie. IMO, of course.
- Vagabond

so you're saying that vancouver wasnt elite without goaltending?
no doubt is was a strong point on their team, but they also had many strong parts.
basically the same team that came within 1 win of the cup the previous year.
in my estimation the only team that truly pushed the eventual champs this year.
every game was incredibly close, and imo, if it wasnt for quick, the results may have been very different.

dubnyks numbers arent bad at all. especially considering having possibly the worst defence in the league in front of him. but ive got it backwards??? ummm, no.

it's easy to say that "ive watched dubs alot" to use as your retort. but judging from your response, it's clear this isnt true. he wasnt even a starter last year until the end! how did u see him lots? they get 1 or 2 games a month on hnic, and u live in quebec.

anyway, yes schneider looks to have the better pedigree right now as i said, but dubs is far from nowhere near his league.
as i also said, ill reserve the judgement after watching them both start, instead of running with exactly what the media tells me to think.

so you're saying that vancouver wasnt elite without goaltending?
no doubt is was a strong point on their team, but they also had many strong parts.
basically the same team that came within 1 win of the cup the previous year.
in my estimation the only team that truly pushed the eventual champs this year.
every game was incredibly close, and imo, if it wasnt for quick, the results may have been very different.

dubnyks numbers arent bad at all. especially considering having possibly the worst defence in the league in front of him. but ive got it backwards??? ummm, no.

it's easy to say that "ive watched dubs alot" to use as your retort. but judging from your response, it's clear this isnt true. he wasnt even a starter last year until the end! how did u see him lots? they get 1 or 2 games a month on hnic, and u live in quebec.

anyway, yes schneider looks to have the better pedigree right now as i said, but dubs is far from nowhere near his league.
as i also said, ill reserve the judgement after watching them both start, instead of running with exactly what the media tells me to think.
- hugefemale dog77

!. In a way, yes, I am saying that. Most of their forwards had sub-par years (for various reasons). They still would have won their Division and ended up third but point-wise might have had fewer points than most of the other playoff teams. Luongo and Schneider were the main reasons they won that (useless) president's thing.

2. It's funny that when a goalie does well it's him doing well; yet when he doesn't it's because of the crappy team in front of him.

3. The Canucks were going nowhere in the playoffs last season for the same reason they lost to the Bruins: not nearly enough goals scored by them. They only had any chance against LA because of Schneider and Luongo (yes, he played well even getting beat twice). They could not score.

4. Dubnyk started 42 games last season (35 or so the season before), so although he's not a workhorse (yet) it's a pretty good sample.

5. I am a bit of a night owl and have centre ice and watch tons of hockey. I have seen Dubnyk play enough to base my opinion with decent credibility.

6. It's disappointing that you seem to think my opinion is based on "what the media tells me to think". I thought you had more sense than that. Guess I was wrong. Is it because that's how you base your opinions? See how easy it is to jump to that instead of accepting another's point of view?