- Sabretooter

I removed the text to save space...

You make some valid points, but a couple things:

1) Only players that sign a contract for longer than one year who are already over the age of 35 count against the cap when they retire. So it doesn't matter when Luongo retires, there are no cap consequences.

2) Luongo has played more than 700 career NHL games and his .919 s% is better than Martin Brodeur, Patrik Roy, Ed Belfour, Curtis Joseph, Chris Osgood, Mike Vernon... And while I don't have the stats to back it up, I would wager this is also better than Terry Sawchuk, Jacques Plante, Tony Esposito, Glenn Hall, Grant Fuhr, Andy Moog... Niemi has played all of 170 games in the NHL, far from a career standard.

At the end of the day, Luongo will go into the HHOF as (likely) the third most winning goalie in NHL history, so while there are certainly things about his current situation which lessen his value in a trade negotiation, there are also many positives.

Read this article a few years backin the sportsnet forums, a guy was reading this book (cant remember it) but it was about sponsorship and corporate buying teams

Anyways in the future of sports it would be more like the gillette blue jays and the
coca-cola canucks, that kinda thing....

Funny I scoffed it then but not so much anymore looking forward
- MindFr3eak

I just heard something about that, some professional league in North America is allowing jersey sponsorship, like the EPL... Can't remember what it was though.

Here is a newsflash! Luongo only has a career 9.19 save percentage Niemi has a .915 and everyone says he is terrible. Vancouver's Mgmt signed Luongo for way too long a term which detracted from any future trade value. IT WAS A MISTAKE! If Luongo were signed for only three more years, there would probably be teams willing to overpay on the chance he might regain a form that he once demonstrated earlier in his career. Even though anyone not a fan of your team, but pragmatically thinking, would assert that Luongo's statistics have been dramatically improved because of the talent of the team he was playing on.

IMO you are going to have to ask a lot less, and maybe take on a bad contract from another team in order to move him.

Maybe the reason fans from other teams undervalue Luongo in the opinion of many of those in your fanbase is because all fans are naturally homers. They love their team and their players, while the rest of the league sees things without emotion invovled.
- Sabretooter

Here's a number for you. .913 - Martin Brodeur's Career Save %.

I'll say it right now, Brodeur is a much better goalie than Luongo.

Brodeur is also 40, If Luongo plays to 40, the contract isn't bad. It's a big if. And this is the question I pose to everyone.

How long, in your opinion, does Luongo play?

He's never had a season threatening injury, played fewer games the last few seasons with no drop in numbers and has changed styles with goalie coaches with no real change to the results. Could he be the next Roloson or will he be a Marty Turco?

Here's a number for you. .913 - Martin Brodeur's Career Save %.

I'll say it right now, Brodeur is a much better goalie than Luongo.

Brodeur is also 40, If Luongo plays to 40, the contract isn't bad. It's a big if. And this is the question I pose to everyone.

How long, in your opinion, does Luongo play?

He's never had a season threatening injury, played fewer games the last few seasons with no drop in numbers and has changed styles with goalie coaches with no real change to the results. Could he be the next Roloson or will he be a Marty Turco?
- Troutback

Marty Turco isn't too bad didn't he start sucking in his late 30's.

I removed the text to save space...

You make some valid points, but a couple things:

1) Only players that sign a contract for longer than one year who are already over the age of 35 count against the cap when they retire. So it doesn't matter when Luongo retires, there are no cap consequences.

2) Luongo has played more than 700 career NHL games and his .919 s% is better than Martin Brodeur, Patrik Roy, Ed Belfour, Curtis Joseph, Chris Osgood, Mike Vernon... And while I don't have the stats to back it up, I would wager this is also better than Terry Sawchuk, Jacques Plante, Tony Esposito, Glenn Hall, Grant Fuhr, Andy Moog... Niemi has played all of 170 games in the NHL, far from a career standard.

At the end of the day, Luongo will go into the HHOF as (likely) the third most winning goalie in NHL history, so while there are certainly things about his current situation which lessen his value in a trade negotiation, there are also many positives.
- 1970vintage

Problem is you have to be willing to pay him for the full length of the contract right?

Well, tried to read this thread but got four or five pages in and I wanted to throttle leafs fans and chicago fans....is it seriously ok to post like they do? I mean it's painful.

Problem is you have to be willing to pay him for the full length of the contract right?
- walshyleafsfan1

No, if he retires he does not get paid, nor does his salary count against the cap. Boston is in a weird situation where Thomas has stated that he will "take a year off". Thomas' contract is a 35+ contract, meaning his $5 million cap hit counts next year whether he plays or not.

Luongo is, however, getting paid $6.7 million for his $5.33 cap hit as stated earlier, so for teams on a budget, it's not really a great fit. This is one of the reasons I think a deal to Florida is a problem, more so than what goalies are under contract or who is going to be the next great net minder. For Florida to take on this salary (with lower cap hit) they are likely looking at offering a lower return. Rich teams should be all over this, that's why the Canucks signed him to the contract in the first place. At the time, Luongo was among the very best in the league, and the only way to get him the $10 million for the first year and $7 million for a few more years was to sign him until he gets a gold care card.

You see that's the best part no one and I mean no one has any idea how garrison or Kuba will do. Samuelson was nice to have but he just on the team to dump booths salary. So it will really depend on if huberdeau can do what everyone believes he can do so who knows. But I would hardy say we have gotten worse thou.
- Crazycaboose

Well based on Kuba's long career and what Garrison did last year, it's tough to say Kuba will bring what Garrison brought last year at this point in his career. He's a fine depth guy and can handle minutes with an offensive stud (like Campbell) but he's not the shooter Garrison is.

Regardless of how Samuelsson got there, he was very good secondary scoring. Can't really say he didn't contribute or that his production won't be missed.

Rookies have different benchmarks for success. If Huberdeau isn't a liability, that'll be a good season. But expecting a lot out of a undersized 19 year old is not the best plan.

It's pretty easy to say the Panthers have gotten worse, they've lost players and their replacement aren't as good. On paper, they look weaker. How it plays out has yet to be seen.

Reading the argument that Ian has made in his blog, I believe that he is failing to take into consideration all of the facts, that are available for everyone to see, when arguing that Toronto and others are unwilling to pay what he conceptualizes is fair value for Luongo.
To start I will say that Luongo ranked 12th in the league in save percentage actually he was tied with two others so I could also say 14th. I think it is worth considering that he played on one of the best teams while obtaining these numbers, a very good defensive team. A team so good that we see that another goalie on this team outperform Luongo, .937 to .919, in save percentage, good for second in the league in 2011/2012 according to NHL.com. So, Luongo has middle of the league stats, playing on a team that allows a lesser known talent to rank 2nd in the league.

In addition, his contract, basically pays him 6.7 million a year until he retires. I know the cap hit is less, but Luongo is 33 now and signed for 10 more years at a cap hit higher than 5 million. He is signed past 40 years old which means that if he retires you will still have cap implications, and if he decides not to retire the buyout would immensely penalize the team that trades for him.

So, in addition to:
1. having to pay a salary that is higher than the cap hit, what will amount to the third highest goalie salary in the NHL next year, for a goalie who only has average stats on a great team.
2. taking on a contract that was signed for a much longer term than most teams would consider signing someone in the 30's.
3. trading for a player who has a shaky history of performing under pressure(whether or not you argue that he was hung out to dry by team mates or not, the history is there)
4. taking a chance on a goalie who is statistically closer to the 38th ranked goalie in the league than the 2nd(his own teammate)

In addition to all of the risk and long term commitment that a club has to take on for a goalie whose stats over the last few years are easily replaceable, and in no way elite, In addition to all that, the team that trades for him has to overpay too?

Here is a newsflash! Luongo only has a career 9.19 save percentage Niemi has a .915 and everyone says he is terrible. Vancouver's Mgmt signed Luongo for way too long a term which detracted from any future trade value. IT WAS A MISTAKE! If Luongo were signed for only three more years, there would probably be teams willing to overpay on the chance he might regain a form that he once demonstrated earlier in his career. Even though anyone not a fan of your team, but pragmatically thinking, would assert that Luongo's statistics have been dramatically improved because of the talent of the team he was playing on.

IMO you are going to have to ask a lot less, and maybe take on a bad contract from another team in order to move him.

Maybe the reason fans from other teams undervalue Luongo in the opinion of many of those in your fanbase is because all fans are naturally homers. They love their team and their players, while the rest of the league sees things without emotion invovled.
- Sabretooter

Broduer's career S% is .913. I guess Niemi is better.

I'm sorry but Hamhuis is way better the Ehrhoff. I think Hamhuis is a #2, but Ehrhoff isn't close to a 2. He was clearly behind Edler, Hamhuis and Bieksa. Not even close. Ehrhoff is a good pp QB. Nothing more.
- Bieksa#3

Nobody, I mean nobody on this team could start a rush out of our end 5-5 like Ehrhoff could. The fact that you overlook this underlines why Bieksa is your favourite player. If you look at how the Canucks take the zone now without Ehrhoff, all you see is curl back curl back followed by an ill timed dump... a Bieksa pattented move btw.

Nobody, I mean nobody on this team could start a rush out of our end 5-5 like Ehrhoff could. The fact that you overlook this underlines why Bieksa is your favourite player. If you look at how the Canucks take the zone now without Ehrhoff, all you see is curl back curl back followed by an ill timed dump... a Bieksa pattented move btw.
- boonerbuck

There is no doubt that the nucks missed the offensive abilities of Erhoff. The canucks never replaced his 50 pts and his ability to start the rush. Remember the nucks were about to trade bieksa all of last year and when the injuries to salo got worse they decided to keep him.

Well, tried to read this thread but got four or five pages in and I wanted to throttle leafs fans and chicago fans....is it seriously ok to post like they do? I mean it's painful.
- rune_74

I can get you some Vikaden to ease the pain and need to throttle.....

Nobody, I mean nobody on this team could start a rush out of our end 5-5 like Ehrhoff could. The fact that you overlook this underlines why Bieksa is your favourite player. If you look at how the Canucks take the zone now without Ehrhoff, all you see is curl back curl back followed by an ill timed dump... a Bieksa pattented move btw.
- boonerbuck

you must love talking out of both sides of your mouth One sec your complaining about somebody, Being to soft, or no effort and diving. The next time you want those types of players. I'll agree he moved the puck well. But he is not better then Bieksa, Edler or Hamhuis. Look at Ehrhoff in the cup run. To say he was pathetic is an understatement.

There is no doubt that the nucks missed the offensive abilities of Erhoff. The canucks never replaced his 50 pts and his ability to start the rush. Remember the nucks were about to trade bieksa all of last year and when the injuries to salo got worse they decided to keep him.
- Bluechip23

I don't think there was any credible soarces saying Bieksa would be dealt. Please post one.

I don't think there was any credible soarces saying Bieksa would be dealt. Please post one.
- Bieksa#3

Im sorry I dont save every single article I read or PVR all the hockey shows. It was mentioned numerous times on TSN and on the radio that Bieksa would be dealt if a suitable deal was uncovered. After salo got injured near the deadline they stopped shopping him denying this is just ridiculous and ruins your credibility.

Im sorry I dont save every single article I read or PVR all the hockey shows. It was mentioned numerous times on TSN and on the radio that Bieksa would be dealt if a suitable deal was uncovered. After salo got injured near the deadline they stopped shopping him denying this is just ridiculous and ruins your credibility.
- Bluechip23

like I said show me a credable soarce. It was mentioned "numerous" times, so it should be simple to find Because I didn't here something doesn't make me less credible. To suggest something as such is showing a lack of confidence. Maybe it was mentioned and I missed it. It could have been mentioned on 1040, but since I don't live in BC I don't listen. Clearly though as it was mentioned on tsn "numourous" times you can post a link.

Hamhuis is a number 3 d-man. Comparing him to a stud like Chara shows how much of a homer you are. They had a number 2 d-man, but let Erhoff go to Buffalo. They have no number 1. Great trade of Hodgson btw. Gilis proves he must be the most overrated gm in NHL history. Takes over a Burke and Nonis team, and he is ruining them with bad trades. Consider that the Nucks played 5 more games than the Leafs this past season All the core pieces were in place for him, and he can't lead them to the cup.
- Allstarzz

Pulling out all the stops, eh.

I pity all the unfortunate individuals who have to put up with you on a semi-regular/regular basis. Must be especially awful in person.

Pulling out all the stops, eh.

I pity all the unfortunate individuals who have to put up with you on a semi-regular/regular basis. Must be especially awful in person.
- Fosco

Problem is you have to be willing to pay him for the full length of the contract right?
- walshyleafsfan1

This is the problem with this arguement.

We tell you the money that the Leafs make from making it to the playoffs will pay his salary . Then Leaf fans chime in, Leafs don't need the money they are stinkin rich and then you complain that you would have to bury 6 mil over the last 4 years (1.5 average) in the minors if he decides to live out his contract? Consistency would sure help.You can't have it both ways. This is why it just seems like the same old poop every day with Leaf fans.

you must love talking out of both sides of your mouth One sec your complaining about somebody, Being to soft, or no effort and diving. The next time you want those types of players. I'll agree he moved the puck well. But he is not better then Bieksa, Edler or Hamhuis. Look at Ehrhoff in the cup run. To say he was pathetic is an understatement.
- Bieksa#3

Look, you have trouble reading or comprehending something simple....

You said Ehrhoff did nothing outside of the PP. I pointed out how he executes the rush. You are being near sighted obviously. How am I talking out both sides of my mouth? Show me where I was recently complaining about "too soft and no effort"? Show me where I said "I want those kinds of players"? You cant because YOU ARE TALKING OUT BOTH SIDES OF YOUR MOUTH.

None of the defenseman filled in what Ehrhoff offered inspite of what people think of him. Bieksa said they would do it from within...oh,,, is that so?....curl back curl back dump....

Bieksa and Ehrhoff are not comparible players at all. Saying Ehrhoff wasnt any good because he was soft is like saying Bieksa isnt any good becase he cant move the puck worth poop. Besides, you are strictly rating defenseman by defensive play alone obviously.

You don't have to make stuff up to support your favourite player. If you feel that way about him, the simple truth should be enough....

There is no doubt that the nucks missed the offensive abilities of Erhoff. The canucks never replaced his 50 pts and his ability to start the rush. Remember the nucks were about to trade bieksa all of last year and when the injuries to salo got worse they decided to keep him.
- Bluechip23

Edler had 49 .I agree that Ehrhoff could skate well out of his zone but the downside was he is as soft as butter. Gillis made the right move letting him walk

Look, you have trouble reading or comprehending something simple....

You said Ehrhoff did nothing outside of the PP. I pointed out how he executes the rush. You are being near sighted obviously. How am I talking out both sides of my mouth? Show me where I was recently complaining about "too soft and no effort" recently? Show me where I said "I want those kinds of players"? You cant because YOU ARE TALKING OUT BOTH SIDES OF YOUR MOUTH.

None of the defenseman filled in what Ehrhoff offered inspite of what people think of him. Bieksa said they would do it from within...oh,,, is that so?....curl back curl back dump....

Bieksa and Ehrhoff are not comparible players at all. Saying Ehrhoff wasnt any good because he was soft is like saying Bieksa isnt any good becase he cant move the puck worth poop. Besides, you are strictly rating defenseman by defensive play alone obviously.

You don't have to make stuff up to support your favourite player. If you feel that way about him, the simple truth should be enough....
- boonerbuck

I said Erhoff was behind the other 3 on the depth chart. The first post I failed to mention he moves the puck well, but said he does in my 2nd post. I never once said we replaced him, or that anybody can. How am I talking about of both sides of my mouth? My issue is you whining about other guys playing soft, diving and mailing it in in the big games. Yet defending Ehrhoff. I never nice raved about Bieksa in my post. Merely stated he is above Ehrhoff on the depth chart

like I said show me a credable soarce. It was mentioned "numerous" times, so it should be simple to find Because I didn't here something doesn't make me less credible. To suggest something as such is showing a lack of confidence. Maybe it was mentioned and I missed it. It could have been mentioned on 1040, but since I don't live in BC I don't listen. Clearly though as it was mentioned on tsn "numourous" times you can post a link.
- Bieksa#3

http://bleacherreport.com...uver-canucks-on-the-block

There you go it did take me 2 seconds to find this. There is a reason why he asked for a NTC when he resigned. I do listen to the Team all the time while I drive so lots of guys like gallagher, friedman come on all the time and mention things.

this is another one.


Without a no-trade clause in his contract with the Canucks and seen as an emerging offensive defencemen throughout the NHL, Bieksa was routinely the subject of trade rumours.[40] In the 2009 off-season, one such trade rumour was central in a feud between general managers Mike Gillis of Vancouver and Brian Burke of Toronto.[41] On a Leafs TV documentary on the 2009 NHL Entry Draft that aired in September 2009, a segment involves Burke speculating that the Canucks had offered Bieksa to the Tampa Bay Lightning in a package that included forward Alexandre Burrows and a first-round draft-choice in exchange for Tampa Bay's second-overall selection.[41] The documentary was immediately pulled from airing again and the Maple Leafs received a warning from the league.[41]

Michael Olsen‏@NHLInsiderOlsen

Top 5 players on trade market remaining: B.Ryan, K.Yandle, R.Luongo, J.Bernier, J.Bouwmeester