They are very tough: to take all the abuse they get and rarely miss games.
- Vagabond

By dog is tough too...she takes a beating and keeps coming back...the only difference is she isn't afraid to make eye contact afterwards

I would love to punch you in the mouth.
- Blazed

Every single Vancouver thread these days is flooded with Leaf trolls.

This site has really come down to Hockey Futures level of drivel and crap. I'm so sick of reading Leaf fans spout off about a team 3000 miles away that most of you don't stay up to watch.
Yeah yeah Burke and Nonis sure built this back to back presidents trophy winning team. Because evey year we had Burke we had hall of fame tenders Cloutier, Skoudra, Potvin, Essensa, Snow, Auld, Irbe, And so on and so on. We got so far with one of the most Dynamic scoring lines in how many years?

No mention of how Vancouver became younger and faster after moving away from slow defenders like Ohlund and Mitchell to give Hamhuis and Edler bigger roles.
How about grabbing a top center who mentored Kesler from the 3rd line scrub with stone hands into the Selke winning 40 goal scoring center he is now.
How about signing Burrows, Higgins, Lapierre, and even Luongo to below market value cap hits?


Let's be honest here, there was some good pieces left behind, but what Burke left could be seen as on par with what he inherited in Anaheim to make 1 move and ride a hot goaltender with a Conn Smythe win under his belt already.

Now let's look at his moves in Toronto, I see a hole in #1 Center and #1 Goaltender. Compare that to where they were when he got there, lacking the exact same things than. Hasn't he been there 5 years now? How many playoff appearances has that team made? How many of those top draft picks are making significant contributions?
What about those free agent acquisitions? Blake long gone, Komi is the whipping boy for how long?

Like Comeon Blazed, your argument can be met and matched by Canuck fans since we got to witness his bullpoop and drivel he spews out his fat mouth all the time. We know his game and dance. Very nice.

Oooooooooooooooooooooooh.
- Vagabond

Ya ya I know too far I'm risking ban territory. Anyways I have no intentions of trolling save for my little verbal slip I just want to talk hockey. A VAN and TOR fan can debate hockey and make counter arguments without it descending into trolling, there's been some points with merit both ways I'd say.

Ya ya I know too far I'm risking ban territory. Anyways I have no intentions of trolling save for my little verbal slip I just want to talk hockey. A VAN and TOR fan can debate hockey and make counter arguments without it descending into trolling, there's been some points with merit both ways I'd say.
- Blazed

fine, what is luongo worth in a trade with tor. Bozak, Gunnersson and Ashton. Toronto gets an elite netminder and van gets depth players.

Specious argument there.

1. Luongo is not "valueless" in any way like you state.

2. A 5.3 cap hit for an elite goalie does not make a bad contract -- in fact, it's excellent value. The tough part is the term. However, most hockey people doubt he will play the whole term -- likely 6 years max. So the term probably lowers value, but not to the ridiculous "valueless" that you stated.
- Vagabond

While he's not valueless yet per se he's becoming dangerously close. As is it seems there are only 3 times interested FLA TOR and CLB and all three seem content moving forward without Luo.

His contract is risky say whatever you want but it is. No one doubts his ability but he is in decline with years left on his contract. It is entirely possible if traded he could be pushed out of a starter role within 2 years then what? Teams are very hesistant to take on that contract.

We overpaid Daniel? One of the dumbest things I've ever seen. He won the (frank)ing scoring title last year.
- hertzman

He doesn't do alot when he is not playing with Hank. He won it two years ago not last year. It's funny if Burrows or anyone else has a career season it is because of the Sedins . What if Daniel played with Kesler all year do you think he is in the Hart or Art Ross. Maybe Hank is carrying Daniel on his coattails.

fine, what is luongo worth in a trade with tor. Bozak, Gunnersson and Ashton. Toronto gets an elite netminder and van gets depth players.
- Bieksa#3

At this point (I wouldn't pay this) a fair deal would be a 2nd and that's pushing it for that contract.

The problem is that Luongo is getting progressively worse and is signed at a super high cap hit for a very long time. No one wants to add that problem to their team. And the few who are so desperate that they are willing to entertain it, you try to fleece as if the $ had nothing to do with it.

This isn't a fantasy draft, there are cap implications and an actual market of supply and demand. You guys will look silly next year in the playoffs when you are having the goalie debate again because you weren't willing to jump on one of the few AND DIMINISHING chances to move this guy.

Do you think Luongos value will increase with him riding the pine? What will happen to his value if he only plays backup and underperforms in that role? Will a team be as willing to trade for a goalie sitting on the bench for a year? You act like it is no big deal for a team to add a 7+M$ Goalie, even when he isn't good enough to start on his own team, has had nightmare playoff performances, and is continuing to atrophy in ability.

How will you feel when you are paying the cap penalties for a buyout which is what will inevitably have to occur when the window closes on this. Or will you argue that you can play Luongo to keep his value high. And to that I will say that you would be starting your second best goalie in order to protect your pride and the fact that you were too stubborn to do what is right and reasonable at the time it needed to be done.

Face the facts, his contract(lenght and amount) + his stats + his history of choking = not as much as you think you should get.
- Sabretooter

Then I guess we should just keep him then.

How can u not say your trolling. The fact that you can read and write.......while write anyway, makes you smarter then this. Thus making you a troll
- Bieksa#3

How is that trolling I see that as fair for both sides. A soft deal that doesn't dump any garbage contract, frees up cap space, increases flexibility and adds a pretty decent asset.

I were VAN I'd prefer Theodore and a 3rd from FLA for extra insurance in nets considering the team is in win now mode obviously.

If that's trolling I don't know. What's your honest opinion of fair value from TO considering his contract?

Then I guess we should just keep him then.
- VANTEL

For how long? The remainder of his career?

How is that trolling I see that as fair for both sides. A soft deal that doesn't dump any garbage contract, frees up cap space, increases flexibility and adds a pretty decent asset.

I were VAN I'd prefer Theodore and a 3rd from FLA for extra insurance in nets considering the team is in win now mode obviously.

If that's trolling I don't know. What's your honest opinion of fair value from TO considering his contract?
- Blazed

I'm going to agree with dreger, Mac and the tsn crew. They said Bozak, Gunnersson/Franson and Ashton/Percy. I don't know those guys are insiders. I think they know more then you or I about the trade market and NHL hockey in general.

For how long? The remainder of his career?
- Blazed

I for one don't know why fans of other teams take so much interest in Luongo and the Canucks. Seems they have doing a decent job for the last 5 years or so. Every one tells us how to run our team to be successful as their teams miss the playoffs .Buffalo and Tor Fans today. Edmonton also have a lot of input and advice fo us . I think you can see the irony?

I'm going to agree with dreger, Mac and the tsn crew. They said Bozak, Gunnersson/Franson and Ashton/Percy. I don't know those guys are insiders. I think they know more then you or I about the trade market and NHL hockey in general.
- Bieksa#3

While I disagree with that value and have never seen them claim that why would you want that? Where do they fit on the Canucks roster who replaces who? I don't understand the resistance against a soft deal.

Maybe a prospect like Ashton sure but your not going to snag a top 6 guy like Versteeg or Kulimen (potential top 6) so why not take the cap space.

While I disagree with that value and have never seen them claim that why would you want that? Where do they fit on the Canucks roster who replaces who? I don't understand the resistance against a soft deal.

Maybe a prospect like Ashton sure but your not going to snag a top 6 guy like Versteeg or Kulimen (potential top 6) so why not take the cap space.
- Blazed

Low priced depth guys. Bozak=3rd line center
Gunnersson= very good #5 d
Ashton= prospect
Edit: this is a soft deal. Save 4-5 players in the entire leafs organization, any deal with them is.

If we have Lou at the start of the season. I think he ends up in Detroit when they realize that without lidstrom there guarding Howard they actually need goaltending. 1st round pick plus Abdelkater and you have a deal.

If we have Lou at the start of the season. I think he ends up in Detroit when they realize that without lidstrom there guarding Howard they actually need goaltending. 1st round pick plus Abdelkater and you have a deal.
- Sirfunkyton

Could very well happen. This is the thing most of us are saying wait a bit and the teams that need a goalie will appear.

While I disagree with that value and have never seen them claim that why would you want that? Where do they fit on the Canucks roster who replaces who? I don't understand the resistance against a soft deal.

Maybe a prospect like Ashton sure but your not going to snag a top 6 guy like Versteeg or Kulimen (potential top 6) so why not take the cap space.
- Blazed

The problem is Toronto's talent pool is extremely limited. There are only about 3 players on the Leafs that could help the Canucks and they are all off limits . So dealing with Tor will be slim to none,and slim just left town.

He doesn't do alot when he is not playing with Hank. He won it two years ago not last year. It's funny if Burrows or anyone else has a career season it is because of the Sedins . What if Daniel played with Kesler all year do you think he is in the Hart or Art Ross. Maybe Hank is carrying Daniel on his coattails.
- VANTEL

He won it last year.

This thread should be locked for how freaking stupid some of your opinions are.

He won it last year.
- hertzman

I don't know if Danny is overpaid, but Hank is far and away a better player

This thread should be locked for how freaking stupid some of your opinions are.
- Boinker

Did you see that Tallon asked for Schroader in a Luongo deal?

I would say Henrik Sedin.

This thread should be locked for how freaking stupid some of your opinions are.
- Boinker

<- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

I voted for Daniel Sedin only because the team played alot better when he was in the lineup and I still believe that if duncan didn't headshot him we would have had a good chance against the kings.

The problem is Toronto's talent pool is extremely limited. There are only about 3 players on the Leafs that could help the Canucks and they are all off limits . So dealing with Tor will be slim to none,and slim just left town.
- VANTEL

Ya seeing the money tied up on VAN D I couldn't see any interest in a dman. Gunnar is nice with his cap hit but he is a minute muncher and I'm sure you'd rather those minutes going to the big money guys.

Up front there is value I wouldn't say it's extremely thin it's just mostly in the mid level range very little high end talent and most guys are a poor fit. The only 3 I think would fit in VAN and improve the team are Kessel, Loops and Kulimen.

Don't see any deal between the Leafs and Van mostly because of the amiosity between Burke and Gillis.