miked23
Chicago Blackhawks |
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Location: Chicago, IL Joined: 03.05.2009
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You have clearly never been an athlete at a high level or known any.
Giroux played pretty much the whole second half of the season...
Crosby played half of march and all of April...
Those guys had time to acclimate to the speed and physicality of the game while Toews ended up straight in the fire. Returning to a high level sport after that much time of inactivity is very very difficult and your ignorance regarding those facts is laughable.
Toews has a Conn Smythe --- Something none of those other players have with as many Stanley Cups as Crosby. Glad you know what you are talking about and thanks for bringing something meaningful to the discussion. - fattybeef
the point is-and I would like to keep this a little more civil- those guys scored some 8-10 points their first few games back from concussions- and they dont have a Hossa or Kane on their wing every game.
Look, I love Jonathon Toews. He just hasnt had much of a playoff the last few years. I've said allllll along that I want 2nd line center and better goaltending. I also feel that those guys arent readily available to us (ogi's COL deal notwithstanding). So I mention that our best players toews/hoss/Keith need to be better (i think the numbers indicate, if not prove, that). This isnt laughable, silly, ridiculous, or ignorant. It isnt even that profound. And it has nothing to do with my sports background. |
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Al
Chicago Blackhawks |
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Location: , IL Joined: 08.11.2006
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Great article and Q and A stuff.
Thanks. - Lido_Shuffle \
Thanks...The questions submitted were very good.
Here's my answers to some very interesting questions. Reader's Mailbag on Fox Chgo: http://ow.ly/cBh6a
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philco28
Chicago Blackhawks |
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Location: Mississauga, ON Joined: 12.06.2011
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Thanks Phil and there were more questions but it was a long piece as it was...
Larmer..
Not sure excatly what happened but wouldn't be surprised it had something to do what you said or maybe he saw the chance to win a Cup slipping away.
Let's put it this way...A reason I heard was Larmer was getting sick of the drive from the burbs into the city for practices etc.
I have a feeling there was more to it...
He got his Cup and when the politics die down Larmer should enter the HOF as well. - Al
Thanks for this Al...interesting history there for sure...just need someone to uncover WHAT REALLY HAPPENED. Maybe Bob Verdi could do it someday.
I'm obviously biased but to me Larmer belongs in the Hall of Fame. You refer to politics being a possible obstacle for that...are you referring to the fact Larmer resigned from the NHLPA to protest Ted Saskin's presence on said body ? It appeared to be a move of principle by Larmer and further testimony that he was, is and remains a chap of the highest character and integrity. |
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Bhawks35
Chicago Blackhawks |
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Location: Chicago, IL Joined: 05.31.2012
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You can't say whether Giguere is, or isn't, an upgrade over Crawford ("Crow") at this point. He had (much) better stats last year—albeit with a different team and he's been further in the playoffs on I believe more than one occasion.
Bernier is clearly better than anything the Hawks have behind Crawford, for sure. he might or might not be better than Crawford near term. But Bowman would have to pay dearly for him with a conference rival as well.
The guy out there who is proven statistically, experientially and arguably reputationally better than Crawford is Luongo, like it or not. And there is a unique opportunity right now—not just to take on another Hossa-like contract—but also to upgrade your goaltending for another 5 years or so—moreso than anything you presently have in the system likely will. But again, it probably takes some willingness to part with prospects you've been hyping. - John Jaeckel
I agree with Luongo, I would have no problem bringing him in. I think people here forget just how good he is. It wasn't long ago people regarded him as a top 3 goalie in the league. He could still be that.
The problem with him however, is he never plays big in the big games. Every year he falters in the playoffs. He's won a gold medal but we all saw that game, they won despite him. He was fighting the puck that entire game.
I'd be willing to roll the dice on him bc he is a huge upgrade over crow but the minute he has one bad playoff series chicago will be booing him out of town.
With that said I would still rather bernier. Anyone who has followed him in the Q and in Manchester knows he is going to be a special goalie. I'll take him at 23 (I think?) and save the cap space to fill other holes. A bit of a gamble for this year taking him over luo but I believe it will pay dividends later on.
For him I would give up any prospect we have. For Luo I would have a hard time giving up Teuvo, Morin or Clendening as I think they are our top 3. |
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tomcat24
Chicago Blackhawks |
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Location: Gomer's Pyle, IL Joined: 06.04.2012
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That first one, against Nashville: The goal that didn't just change the series, but changed the entire cup run. I feel if the Preds hadn't given up the shorty late in the 3rd, they would've won Game 6 at home, Blackhawks eliminated. - 1goalLordStanley
It was luck or fate or something. Hossa took a needless major penalty with about a minute left trailing by 1. It was luck and a dumb play that allowed kane to tie it. 99 times out of a hundred the hawks wouldn't score in that situation. Plus hossa got a lucky bounce right to him off of ward, I think |
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Al
Chicago Blackhawks |
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Location: , IL Joined: 08.11.2006
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Thanks for this Al...interesting history there for sure...just need someone to uncover WHAT REALLY HAPPENED. Maybe Bob Verdi could do it someday.
I'm obviously biased but to me Larmer belongs in the Hall of Fame. You refer to politics being a possible obstacle for that...are you referring to the fact Larmer resigned from the NHLPA to protest Ted Saskin's presence on said body ? It appeared to be a move of principle by Larmer and further testimony that he was, is and remains a chap of the highest character and integrity. - philco28
NHLPA to protest Ted Saskin's presence on said body
Yes |
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Al
Chicago Blackhawks |
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Location: , IL Joined: 08.11.2006
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Thanks for this Al...interesting history there for sure...just need someone to uncover WHAT REALLY HAPPENED. Maybe Bob Verdi could do it someday.
I'm obviously biased but to me Larmer belongs in the Hall of Fame. You refer to politics being a possible obstacle for that...are you referring to the fact Larmer resigned from the NHLPA to protest Ted Saskin's presence on said body ? It appeared to be a move of principle by Larmer and further testimony that he was, is and remains a chap of the highest character and integrity. - philco28
I will ask... |
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miked23
Chicago Blackhawks |
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Location: Chicago, IL Joined: 03.05.2009
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Thanks for this Al...interesting history there for sure...just need someone to uncover WHAT REALLY HAPPENED. Maybe Bob Verdi could do it someday.
I'm obviously biased but to me Larmer belongs in the Hall of Fame. You refer to politics being a possible obstacle for that...are you referring to the fact Larmer resigned from the NHLPA to protest Ted Saskin's presence on said body ? It appeared to be a move of principle by Larmer and further testimony that he was, is and remains a chap of the highest character and integrity. - philco28
loved gramps...does he belong in the hall? I'm inclined to say yes, but i'd have to look at it closer. |
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moylander
Philadelphia Flyers |
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Location: Chicago, IL Joined: 06.14.2011
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You have clearly never been an athlete at a high level or known any.
Giroux played pretty much the whole second half of the season...
Crosby played half of march and all of April...
Those guys had time to acclimate to the speed and physicality of the game while Toews ended up straight in the fire. Returning to a high level sport after that much time of inactivity is very very difficult and your ignorance regarding those facts is laughable.
Toews has a Conn Smythe --- Something none of those other players have with as many Stanley Cups as Crosby. Glad you know what you are talking about and thanks for bringing something meaningful to the discussion. - fattybeef
Giroux played with a fractured wrist in the playoffs which he just recently called out Crosby for intentionally slashing at in that series.
Giroux scored 4 points his first game back from a concussion after a year and a half off. Crosby did as well before getting knocked out again.
No need to insult anyone.... I actually agree quite a bit with Mike. Toews has what 3 goals in his last 13 playoff games. He needs to step it up..... but more importantly he needs to elevate the play of the guys around him which he's struggling to do imo. JJ is right as well..... SB is not surrounding him with the right pieces which doesn't help. |
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EKB13
Chicago Blackhawks |
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Location: IL Joined: 07.18.2009
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Say what you want about Luongo but he is far better goaltender that he gets credit for. Yes, he has had some bad games but he is still better goalie that Hawks have had in many, many years. Belfour comes to mind. - MjulQvist
Hey, that's all fine and dandy. Does getting Luongo automatically win you a Stanley Cup? If he doesn't, then there is no sense in taking on his albatross of a contract. |
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philco28
Chicago Blackhawks |
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Location: Mississauga, ON Joined: 12.06.2011
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I will ask... - Al
Thanks AC !!!
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philco28
Chicago Blackhawks |
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Location: Mississauga, ON Joined: 12.06.2011
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Bhawks35
Chicago Blackhawks |
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Location: Chicago, IL Joined: 05.31.2012
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Hey, that's all fine and dandy. Does getting Luongo automatically win you a Stanley Cup? If he doesn't, then there is no sense in taking on his albatross of a contract. - EKolb13
I'm certainly not one dying to go out and sign Luo but does any goalie automatically win you a stanley cup? The best goalie in the league never won a cup. (Henrik) |
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John Jaeckel
Chicago Blackhawks |
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Location: www.the-rink.com Joined: 11.19.2006
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I agree with Luongo, I would have no problem bringing him in. I think people here forget just how good he is. It wasn't long ago people regarded him as a top 3 goalie in the league. He could still be that.
The problem with him however, is he never plays big in the big games. Every year he falters in the playoffs. He's won a gold medal but we all saw that game, they won despite him. He was fighting the puck that entire game.
I'd be willing to roll the dice on him bc he is a huge upgrade over crow but the minute he has one bad playoff series chicago will be booing him out of town.
With that said I would still rather bernier. Anyone who has followed him in the Q and in Manchester knows he is going to be a special goalie. I'll take him at 23 (I think?) and save the cap space to fill other holes. A bit of a gamble for this year taking him over luo but I believe it will pay dividends later on.
For him I would give up any prospect we have. For Luo I would have a hard time giving up Teuvo, Morin or Clendening as I think they are our top 3. - Bhawks35
I think maybe your first statement is a bit of an overgeneralization. Luongo's had some huge games and stretches of games int he playoffs in multiple years. And he's gone further than Crawford has, more than once. It's all about context. The best defenseman Lu's had in front of him is Dan Hamhuis or Christian Ehrhoff. Crawford's had two guys who are arguably better. Lu had the C (really didn't handle it well—maybe it was a distraction). The pressure in Vancouver is totally different and WAY more intense than it is in Chicago. Context.
I'll just say this, if I want to win a game or a series, I go with Lu over Crawford, as I think do 30 NHL GMs.
Interesting you leave Saad out of your top 3 (and not being a smarta$$ here either) or do you already have him penciled in to the NHL lineup)?
To me, the only untouchable in the system would be Teravainen.
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DarthKane
Chicago Blackhawks |
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Location: 5.13.4.9 Joined: 02.23.2012
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I think maybe your first statement is a bit of an overgeneralization. Luongo's had some huge games and stretches of games int he playoffs in multiple years. And he's gone further than Crawford has, more than once. It's all about context. The best defenseman Lu's had in front of him is Dan Hamhuis or Christian Ehrhoff. Crawford's had two guys who are arguably better. Lu had the C (really didn't handle it well—maybe it was a distraction). The pressure in Vancouver is totally different and WAY more intense than it is in Chicago. Context.
I'll just say this, if I want to win a game or a series, I go with Lu over Crawford, as I think do 30 NHL GMs.
Interesting you leave Saad out of your top 3 (and not being a smarta$$ here either) or do you already have him penciled in to the NHL lineup)?
To me, the only untouchable in the system would be Teravainen. - John Jaeckel
JJ...would you pull the trigger on a deal for Luongo, assuming it was for a reasonable price. For example, let's say Crawford, Frolik and one of McNeill/Morin/Pirri. I'm on the fence but leaning towards no.
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miked23
Chicago Blackhawks |
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Location: Chicago, IL Joined: 03.05.2009
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Giroux played with a fractured wrist in the playoffs which he just recently called out Crosby for intentionally slashing at in that series.
Giroux scored 4 points his first game back from a concussion after a year and a half off. Crosby did as well before getting knocked out again.
No need to insult anyone.... I actually agree quite a bit with Mike. Toews has what 3 goals in his last 13 playoff games. He needs to step it up..... but more importantly he needs to elevate the play of the guys around him which he's struggling to do imo. JJ is right as well..... SB is not surrounding him with the right pieces which doesn't help. - moylander
Thanks |
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EKB13
Chicago Blackhawks |
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Location: IL Joined: 07.18.2009
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I'm certainly not one dying to go out and sign Luo but does any goalie automatically win you a stanley cup? The best goalie in the league never won a cup. (Henrik) - Bhawks35
How do you sign someone that's already under contract? |
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MjulQvist
Chicago Blackhawks |
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Joined: 04.22.2012
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Hey, that's all fine and dandy. Does getting Luongo automatically win you a Stanley Cup? If he doesn't, then there is no sense in taking on his albatross of a contract. - EKolb13
No it doesn´t. But it would make chance of winning it much better.
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EKB13
Chicago Blackhawks |
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Location: IL Joined: 07.18.2009
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No it doesn´t. But it would make chance of winning it much better. - MjulQvist
So would Doan. The term is much shorter. Luser's deal will only screw things up. |
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MjulQvist
Chicago Blackhawks |
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Joined: 04.22.2012
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So would Doan. The term is much shorter. Luser's deal will only screw things up. - EKolb13
Can Doan stop pucks?
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John Jaeckel
Chicago Blackhawks |
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Location: www.the-rink.com Joined: 11.19.2006
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Hey, that's all fine and dandy. Does getting Luongo automatically win you a Stanley Cup? If he doesn't, then there is no sense in taking on his albatross of a contract. - EKolb13
They could get Crosby and that doesn't guarantee them a Cup.
Here's the bottom line: you saw in the playoffs that two horrendously soft goals maybe cost you a series where you were outplaying the competition—that was basically carried by the better goalie.
Crawford struggled all year to keep his job, where the Hawks' GAA was about half a goal higher than their goals for.
You've slightly improved the defense (a good thing). But the way to take the improvement to the next level is to improve your goaltending.
I for one, think the Hawk defense with Keith, Seabrook, Hammer and Oduya chewing most of the minutes is pretty damn good. Put an A List goalie behind it and ride the forwards to play the backcheck consistently and this would be a very, very hard team to beat.
I'll give Crawford this: he had some great games in the first round against Vancouver last year. Can't completely take that away from him. But other than that, haven't seen much. OK reg. season in 2010-11. And to me, 2011-12 reg season and especially playoffs take both off the board.
This is where I think Bowman contradicts himself and appears to be spinning in defense of himself.
In the summer of 2010, he said Niemi wasn't going anywhere. That to me says they wanted to/intended to keep Niemi, at least in part because they felt he was better than Crawford. If not, why make that public commitment? Why not say, well, we'll see but we feel we're covered regardless.
OK, circumstances got the better of him and he lost Niemi.
But now he talks about Crawford almost like they always knew he was really good. I mean, you can have it both ways. But it seems to me, Crawford was a default, and the stellar play for parts of 2010-11 were sort of a pleasant surprise. And, let's face it, the road of goalie history is littered with guys who were temporary revelations: Marc Denis, Jim Carey, Pascal LeClaire, Cristobal Huet, Michael Leighton, etc
Does anyone think Crawford is one of the top 10-15 goalies in the league? Why wouldn't you want one of those on your team—when clearly it gives you a marginally better chance to win games, series and Cups?
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EKB13
Chicago Blackhawks |
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Location: IL Joined: 07.18.2009
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Can Doan stop pucks?
- MjulQvist
Seriously...
I can't believe that I'm having an argument with a guy who thinks Beach is still a prospect. |
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MjulQvist
Chicago Blackhawks |
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Joined: 04.22.2012
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Seriously...
I can't believe that I'm having an argument with a guy who think Beach is still a prospect. - EKolb13
Hey hey, now you´re being mean to me! Fool me once..shame on you! |
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John Jaeckel
Chicago Blackhawks |
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Location: www.the-rink.com Joined: 11.19.2006
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JJ...would you pull the trigger on a deal for Luongo, assuming it was for a reasonable price. For example, let's say Crawford, Frolik and one of McNeill/Morin/Pirri. I'm on the fence but leaning towards no. - DarthKane
In a New York minute.
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ikeane
Chicago Blackhawks |
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Location: Jacksonville, FL Joined: 11.04.2005
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In a New York minute. - John Jaeckel
Are there irons in the fire, or is Stan just waiting for Doan to make up his mind? Can you tell us term/cap hit ballparks for what Stan is offering? Been a couple of days and I am sure stuff can change in a New York Minute. Has Stan cooled off his pursuit of Lu? |
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