Al
Chicago Blackhawks |
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Location: , IL Joined: 08.11.2006
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Sale, Ramirez, Beckham, Flowers, Viciedo, Reed all WS draft picks who are now professionals; some having good success others just meh, but still MLB players - fattybeef
I think fans look at published minor league evaluations and the Sox grade out poorly but one reason is because the players you mentioned are current major league contributors.
An important point and same in the NHL....What is most important is not how many top prospects there are in the minors but how many actually become contributors at the big league level.
@AlCimaglia |
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MjulQvist
Chicago Blackhawks |
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Joined: 04.22.2012
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I´d rather take Luongo´s contract than give Shame Doan 7,5 mil for four years. And Luongo would fill the need more than Doan does. Just don´t think any team can win with two number 2 goalies. I say trade Leddy, Crawford, Montador and Olesz for Luongo and Ballard. |
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So the solution to the atrocious composition of last year's team was to fire Q? B.S. - all anybody gets out of firing the coach in the middle of a losing streak is about a two week performance improvement and then back into the soup after the shakeup.
The architect of the team is Bowman and he is the guy who provided Q with crap like Scott, O'Donnell, Brunette etc. If Q deserved to go because he couldn't win with the squad he had, Bowman should have been sent packing with him at the same time.
And if Q got outcoached by Dave Tippett in the playoffs, so did Peter Laviolette & Co. by the Devils and their coaching staff.
You definitely can't be characterized as impatient - how long have you been watching the Flyer's blow Stanley cup chances because they can never find a goaltender? It's up to about 35 years now. - RickJ
Disagree. I think the players executed better for Phoenix than Chicago. I would argue that Chicago had the better of the play for most of the series but failed to capitalize on numerous chances / stonewalled by a hot goalie and were victimized by some stupid defensive errors and egregious goaltending.
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Ogilthorpe2
Season Ticket Holder Chicago Blackhawks |
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Location: 37,000 FT Joined: 07.09.2009
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I´d rather take Luongo´s contract than give Shame Doan 7,5 mil for four years. And Luongo would fill the need more than Doan does. Just don´t think any team can win with two number 2 goalies. I say trade Leddy, Crawford, Montador and Olesz for Luongo and Ballard. - MjulQvist
I say you're crazy. I don't want Doan at $7.5 for 4 years either, but overpaying for Luser is no better. |
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I think fans look at published minor league evaluations and the Sox grade out poorly but one reason is because the players you mentioned are current major league contributors.
An important point and same in the NHL....What is most important is not how many top prospects there are in the minors but how many actually become contributors at the big league level.
@AlCimaglia - Al
Exactly. Which is why the younger players are irrelevant unless they are on the team and playing well enough to warrant a roster spot.
A blue chip prospect or inexperienced player is not really what the Hawks need to win today. A veteran who knows how to accept a role and perform with consistency would be a much better road to take and I feel like such a player(s) could be had with mostly prospects. |
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John Jaeckel
Chicago Blackhawks |
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Location: www.the-rink.com Joined: 11.19.2006
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I think fans look at published minor league evaluations and the Sox grade out poorly but one reason is because the players you mentioned are current major league contributors.
An important point and same in the NHL....What is most important is not how many top prospects there are in the minors but how many actually become contributors at the big league level.
@AlCimaglia - Al
DING DING DING DING
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John Jaeckel
Chicago Blackhawks |
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Location: www.the-rink.com Joined: 11.19.2006
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Disagree. I think the players executed better for Phoenix than Chicago. I would argue that Chicago had the better of the play for most of the series but failed to capitalize on numerous chances / stonewalled by a hot goalie and were victimized by some stupid defensive errors and egregious goaltending. - fattybeef
Totally, completely agree
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John Jaeckel
Chicago Blackhawks |
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Location: www.the-rink.com Joined: 11.19.2006
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I´d rather take Luongo´s contract than give Shame Doan 7,5 mil for four years. And Luongo would fill the need more than Doan does. Just don´t think any team can win with two number 2 goalies. I say trade Leddy, Crawford, Montador and Olesz for Luongo and Ballard. - MjulQvist
I tend to agree, but I don't think Gillis will take on more than one bad contract.
The problem here is this is a high stakes game. Bowman would have to give up real value or significant potential value for an upgrade in goaltending. I see him being more content to see if Crawford can not just rebound but maintain a high level, or see how Kent Simpson or Whitney or Carruth pan out 2-3 years from now. Which I think is letting your fear drive your brain. But . . . |
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RickJ
Chicago Blackhawks |
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Location: Burlington, ON Joined: 01.12.2010
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I tend to agree, but I don't think Gillis will take on more than one bad contract.
The problem here is this is a high stakes game. Bowman would have to give up real value or significant potential value for an upgrade in goaltending. I see him being more content to see if Crawford can not just rebound but maintain a high level, or see how Kent Simpson or Whitney or Carruth pan out 2-3 years from now. Which I think is letting your fear drive your brain. But . . . - John Jaeckel
This whole business of the Bowman's don't believe in paying a lot of money for goaltending is crap.
When Scotty was coaching the Red Wings he had about 15 of the top players in the NHL and other teams couldn't get the puck off of them to mount any offence. An OK goalie was just fine and that's how a very average goaltender like Osgood compiled 400 wins. The Hawks are quite a different team than those Red Wings. |
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Ogilthorpe2
Season Ticket Holder Chicago Blackhawks |
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Location: 37,000 FT Joined: 07.09.2009
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I believe I've put together the perfect package for the Hawks to acquire Lu...
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Ogilthorpe2
Season Ticket Holder Chicago Blackhawks |
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Location: 37,000 FT Joined: 07.09.2009
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I tend to agree, but I don't think Gillis will take on more than one bad contract.
The problem here is this is a high stakes game. Bowman would have to give up real value or significant potential value for an upgrade in goaltending. I see him being more content to see if Crawford can not just rebound but maintain a high level, or see how Kent Simpson or Whitney or Carruth pan out 2-3 years from now. Which I think is letting your fear drive your brain. But . . . - John Jaeckel
Kruger, Saad, Emery, 1st round pick for Stastny and Giguere.
Done.
If they want Frolik or Stalberg they can have one of them too. |
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miked23
Chicago Blackhawks |
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Location: Chicago, IL Joined: 03.05.2009
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Disagree. I think the players executed better for Phoenix than Chicago. I would argue that Chicago had the better of the play for most of the series but failed to capitalize on numerous chances / stonewalled by a hot goalie and were victimized by some stupid defensive errors and egregious goaltending. - fattybeef
I didnt hear much talk of Maloney putting a better squad on the ice last year.. But, maybe Gillis the year before (of course stan had the summer of cap hell)
Tippett's a great coach, but I didnt hear much about Q getting outclassed last year. ANd I think he held his own against AV in the 7 gms 2 yrs ago.
Yet, our top 3 players Toews, Keith and Hossa havent really shown up on the score sheet. A good game here or there, sure. But no where NEAR the consistent performance that is expected of players of their stature. Regardless of who the coach is; Jonathon Toews needs to dominate. Quietly winning FO, board battles and solid 3 zone play are the work of today's second line center. In the last 2 playoff years that's what he has become. He's played with Hossa, Sharp, or Kane. Yet he cant score, help them score, or generate success on the PP. If he's our Captain and best player I want him doing what NO ONE else can do. Lately he seems unable to lift himself or his teammates to the level of play required. We btiched about Bollig, and Bickell, and Frolik forever last year. They all had decent playoffs. Toews did not.
Who are the top teams in the league? Where does our center fit? Is he better than Pits.? LA's? How about Vancouver (he's a 3rd liner there). Carolina? Detroit? Is he even better than Backes in Stl anymore? NY Rangers? Captain Serious? How about Captain, seriously, can you play any better?
Sure we can fire the coach, replace the GM. But our core is where it's at. And no one can tell me that they've been blameless in this. I need more from Toews. I need more from Hoss, I need more from Keith. If they play well AND we lose, I'll look at the front office. But I believe we lost BECAUSE of them...not in spite of.
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Al
Chicago Blackhawks |
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Location: , IL Joined: 08.11.2006
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Totally, completely agree - John Jaeckel
Yep...The Coyotes are able to play the same effective game more consistently than the Hawks.
Not as many round pegs in square holes as Chgo, which leads to Q. getting outcoached because he was the one doing the scrambling.
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miked23
Chicago Blackhawks |
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Location: Chicago, IL Joined: 03.05.2009
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Kruger, Saad, Emery, 1st round pick for Stastny and Giguere.
Done.
If they want Frolik or Stalberg they can have one of them too. - Ogilthorpe2
I'm with you, kinda...why do you want Giggy so much?
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DarthKane
Chicago Blackhawks |
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Location: 5.13.4.9 Joined: 02.23.2012
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I´d rather take Luongo´s contract than give Shame Doan 7,5 mil for four years. And Luongo would fill the need more than Doan does. Just don´t think any team can win with two number 2 goalies. I say trade Leddy, Crawford, Montador and Olesz for Luongo and Ballard. - MjulQvist
You want no piece of Ballard, trust me. I've seen him play lots and he's not worth a quarter of his salary. |
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Al
Chicago Blackhawks |
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Location: , IL Joined: 08.11.2006
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I didnt hear much talk of Maloney putting a better squad on the ice last year.. But, maybe Gillis the year before (of course stan had the summer of cap hell)
Tippett's a great coach, but I didnt hear much about Q getting outclassed last year. ANd I think he held his own against AV in the 7 gms 2 yrs ago.
Yet, our top 3 players Toews, Keith and Hossa havent really shown up on the score sheet. A good game here or there, sure. But no where NEAR the consistent performance that is expected of players of their stature. Regardless of who the coach is; Jonathon Toews needs to dominate. Quietly winning FO, board battles and solid 3 zone play are the work of today's second line center. In the last 2 playoff years that's what he has become. He's played with Hossa, Sharp, or Kane. Yet he cant score, help them score, or generate success on the PP. If he's our Captain and best player I want him doing what NO ONE else can do. Lately he seems unable to lift himself or his teammates to the level of play required. We btiched about Bollig, and Bickell, and Frolik forever last year. They all had decent playoffs. Toews did not.
Who are the top teams in the league? Where does our center fit? Is he better than Pits.? LA's? How about Vancouver (he's a 3rd liner there). Carolina? Detroit? Is he even better than Backes in Stl anymore? NY Rangers? Captain Serious? How about Captain, seriously, can you play any better?
Sure we can fire the coach, replace the GM. But our core is where it's at. And no one can tell me that they've been blameless in this. I need more from Toews. I need more from Hoss, I need more from Keith. If they play well AND we lose, I'll look at the front office. But I believe we lost BECAUSE of them...not in spite of. - miked23
The core has left a lot to be desired but sooner or later the tank runs dry.
The core is leaned on every game here no matter what month...
In the playoffs a successful team needs all hands on deck and everyone on the same page. Until the core players aren't counted on to win every game all yr. long and 1/2 the roster keeps turning over each season, similar results will be seen.
The best thing/only thing about no moves this summer is because maybe, just maybe there will be more continuity. |
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Ogilthorpe2
Season Ticket Holder Chicago Blackhawks |
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Location: 37,000 FT Joined: 07.09.2009
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I'm with you, kinda...why do you want Giggy so much? - miked23
Because I think that he's one of, if not the best goalie out there who could likely be had without paying through the nose...and more importantly, I really want Stastny, so a package deal makes sense.
Giguere is third among active goalies, behind Thomas and Quick in career post season save %. Enough said. |
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Al
Chicago Blackhawks |
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Location: , IL Joined: 08.11.2006
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This whole business of the Bowman's don't believe in paying a lot of money for goaltending is crap.
When Scotty was coaching the Red Wings he had about 15 of the top players in the NHL and other teams couldn't get the puck off of them to mount any offence. An OK goalie was just fine and that's how a very average goaltender like Osgood compiled 400 wins. The Hawks are quite a different team than those Red Wings. - RickJ
This whole business of the Bowman's don't believe in paying a lot of money for goaltending is crap.
It might be crap but until the Hawks swing big on a goalie they won't...The problem might be more an unwillingness to adjust....In a few ways. |
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Al
Chicago Blackhawks |
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Location: , IL Joined: 08.11.2006
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Because I think that he's one of, if not the best goalie out there who could likely be had without paying through the nose...and more importantly, I really want Stastny, so a package deal makes sense.
Giguere is third among active goalies, behind Thomas and Quick in career post season save %. Enough said. - Ogilthorpe2
I am all in on Stastny and Giguere was a Cup winner. |
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miked23
Chicago Blackhawks |
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Location: Chicago, IL Joined: 03.05.2009
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The core has left a lot to be desired but sooner or later the tank runs dry.
The core is leaned on every game here no matter what month...
In the playoffs a successful team needs all hands on deck and everyone on the same page. Until the core players aren't counted on to win every game all yr. long and 1/2 the roster keeps turning over each season, similar results will be seen.
The best thing/only thing about no moves this summer is because maybe, just maybe there will be more continuity. - Al
Toews gets to play with Kane and/or Hoss and/or Sharp. Better wingers than MOST of the top centers in the league. Keith plays with Seabrook. The REST of the roster can make "continuity" excuses. Not Toews and Keith. |
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miked23
Chicago Blackhawks |
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Location: Chicago, IL Joined: 03.05.2009
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Because I think that he's one of, if not the best goalie out there who could likely be had without paying through the nose...and more importantly, I really want Stastny, so a package deal makes sense.
Giguere is third among active goalies, behind Thomas and Quick in career post season save %. Enough said. - Ogilthorpe2
cool thanks...you can take the 'kinda" out of my previous post. |
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John Jaeckel
Chicago Blackhawks |
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Location: www.the-rink.com Joined: 11.19.2006
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I didnt hear much talk of Maloney putting a better squad on the ice last year.. But, maybe Gillis the year before (of course stan had the summer of cap hell)
Tippett's a great coach, but I didnt hear much about Q getting outclassed last year. ANd I think he held his own against AV in the 7 gms 2 yrs ago.
Yet, our top 3 players Toews, Keith and Hossa havent really shown up on the score sheet. A good game here or there, sure. But no where NEAR the consistent performance that is expected of players of their stature. Regardless of who the coach is; Jonathon Toews needs to dominate. Quietly winning FO, board battles and solid 3 zone play are the work of today's second line center. In the last 2 playoff years that's what he has become. He's played with Hossa, Sharp, or Kane. Yet he cant score, help them score, or generate success on the PP. If he's our Captain and best player I want him doing what NO ONE else can do. Lately he seems unable to lift himself or his teammates to the level of play required. We btiched about Bollig, and Bickell, and Frolik forever last year. They all had decent playoffs. Toews did not.
Who are the top teams in the league? Where does our center fit? Is he better than Pits.? LA's? How about Vancouver (he's a 3rd liner there). Carolina? Detroit? Is he even better than Backes in Stl anymore? NY Rangers? Captain Serious? How about Captain, seriously, can you play any better?
Sure we can fire the coach, replace the GM. But our core is where it's at. And no one can tell me that they've been blameless in this. I need more from Toews. I need more from Hoss, I need more from Keith. If they play well AND we lose, I'll look at the front office. But I believe we lost BECAUSE of them...not in spite of. - miked23
Mike, you are an example of a guy I disagree with on a bit, but you aren't a hyper-critical, name-calling jerk. So there you go. And on this, we disagree quite a bit:
Toews: really? Guy comes back form a concussion and got better every game in the playoffs, scored a huge goal (I believe forcing an OT).
Hossa: was in the running for the Hart Trophy til the ASG where I was told he pulled a groin and had to battle that the the rest of the season, slowing him down (a bit). Hard to contribute when your neck's ion a brace and you're in a dark room.
Keith: yeah, but history shows when you keep his minutes and situations inline, he's a great defenseman. And hold on that thought.
THAT'S the issue.
When you ask Toews to take more draws on the PP and especially the PK because you have only one other guy who is over 50% (a 37 year old 4th liner named Mayers) . .
When you ask Keith to play 29 minutes a night because you dealt away Brian Campbell (and waited until March) to do anything with the cap room). . .
When Kane and Toews don't have a complementary winger who can create space and maybe keep other team's hitters a bit more honest, because Brouwer was deemed too expensive ion light of Michal Frolik's contract demands . . .
That is all about a lack of a supporting cast.
People want to blame Q, and maybe he did over-juggle (I think so). But maybe he had no choice. As we so often say here: insanity is trying the same thing the same way over and over again and expecting a different result.
And it seems to me the arrows point back at Stanley Bowman.
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Hawkswin
Chicago Blackhawks |
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Location: IL Joined: 02.06.2012
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I believe I've put together the perfect package for the Hawks to acquire Lu...
- Ogilthorpe2
+ a bad contract (Frolik or Olesz or Monty) |
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John Jaeckel
Chicago Blackhawks |
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Location: www.the-rink.com Joined: 11.19.2006
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+ a bad contract (Frolik or Olesz or Monty) - Hawkswin
My info. (as much as some of the phantoms want to imply it's all "made up") was that the Hawks have had some conversations with Gillis on this. How serious, I don't know. But you can safely assume, players were mentioned. To think the Hawks didn't start with Montador and/or Olesz is kind of silly. And hey, although these conversations allegedly took place 6-7 weeks ago, no deal. Point being: the Hawks will not get Lu (or any other goalie of his caliber) for Montador and/or Olesz. Gillis might be over a barrel but he's just not doing that.
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John Jaeckel
Chicago Blackhawks |
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Location: www.the-rink.com Joined: 11.19.2006
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I am all in on Stastny and Giguere was a Cup winner. - Al
In theory, I agree.
In reality, there has to be some reason at this point that this deal has not been discussed and/or consummated.
Stastny checks too many boxes for the Hawks and I suspect Giguere is at least an upgrade over Emery. Chances are, Colorado does not want to deal Stastny within the conference, or not for anything less than a premium price (and Bowman—reputationally at least— approaches trades with what some feel is overvaluing his prospects and pieces).
Or there is some stink on Stastny that has the Hawks shying away? Just my thoughts. |
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