Never heard of Rant Sports, but it is a pretty nice piece. Where I take issue with it is in Randy Holt's assumption that Patrick Kane isn't going anywhere. No, he might not be. But Randy doesn't talk to the same people I do (evidently) and the people I talk to, who are closer to the real poop than Randy is, say Kane can and very well might be dealt at some point. Randy sounds like a One Goaler when he puts stuff like that out there. - John Jaeckel
I'm sure he can be dealt at some point, but I've given up on the idea of it being this year. I am convinced that all the 4 major core forwards are going to be here a long time and they will continue to think the core players are not any kind of problem and just need more grinders to win the Cup
Agreed, but can't happen with an egomaniacal, control freak as the GM's boss.
That's how you end up with the timid, afraid to fail, "ask for permission" bean counter as GM. - John Jaeckel
JJ just wondering what exactly you would have liked Bowman to do this offseason that you're constantly criticizing him and the "one goalers"?
I don't get what everyone wanted from this offseason. Not talking about his lack of movement on trade deadlines or anything in the past. Simply THIS offseason. There were only two FAs worth getting at any cost and according to JJ bowman did everything he could to get them here. There are 29 other teams that didn't land the big fish of this FA class.
Outside of Parise and Suter what exactly out there helped fill our hole of a 2nd line center and starting goalie? Olli Jokinen was the closest thing to a legitimate 2nd line center and he would have been a terrible fit being a shoot first center.
If you want to say we should be looking to trade for this center, then Im with ya. Otherwise there was nothing out there that filled those needs. Filling the bottom lines with mclements and winniks doesn't help the biggest problems.
I don't want an "ask for permission bean counter as gm" but you also don't want a gm that makes knee jerk decisions. One of the most crippling things a team can do is go out and try to fill holes with the wrong people. You don't bring in another 3rd line center and hope he or bolland can play a 2nd line role. You don't go out and sign a bottom pairing Dman and put him in a top 4 role. A perfect example of this is the Flyers. Everyone thought they were doomed after trading Richards and Carter. They ended up being a better team bc now you weren't trying to fit round pegs into square holes. The centers now played center and the wingers played wing. Gioux moved from the right side to center. Briere moved up from 3rd line C to 2nd where he belonged and carter who was playing W but wanted to play C was now gone. The Ranges did the same thing by getting Nash. Last year they had stepan up and down centering the 2nd and 3rd line and anisimov moved from Center to wing constantly. Now they have their top 3 centers set in stone with richards, stepan, boyle. This alone makes them better than last year.
The best bet for the Hawks right now is to stay the course and go into the season with Toews, Kruger, Bolland as their top 3. They will be fine for a cpl months like that and could move kane to Center if need be on that second line. Then during the trade deadline go out and see if an upgrade can be made via trade to solidify that spot if kruger can't handle it. If you can go ahead and trade for one now than obviously you do that. But all the complaining and whining for lack of signings this offseason is mind boggling to me given this FA class.
JJ, have you caught wind of the players being dissatisfied with management. Is this the reason Mayers & Carcillo were signed early because management knew guys like Winnik didn't want to play here?
JJ, have you caught wind of the players being dissatisfied with management. Is this the reason Mayers & Carcillo were signed early because management knew guys like Winnik didn't want to play here? - southernhawk
Do we know thats a fact? And if the management has so bad reputation, why did even Brookbank sign with the Hawks? I don´t buy that Blackhawks management is so poor that players don´t want to sign with them. But I never thought Blackhawks were the only destination in free agents minds either.
Never heard of Rant Sports, but it is a pretty nice piece. Where I take issue with it is in Randy Holt's assumption that Patrick Kane isn't going anywhere. No, he might not be. But Randy doesn't talk to the same people I do (evidently) and the people I talk to, who are closer to the real poop than Randy is, say Kane can and very well might be dealt at some point. Randy sounds like a One Goaler when he puts stuff like that out there. - John Jaeckel
I stopped reading after Montador was mentioned as the 2nd most likley..
Not only the no trade clause but he considered damaged goods with his contract until proven otherwise.
JJ, have you caught wind of the players being dissatisfied with management. Is this the reason Mayers & Carcillo were signed early because management knew guys like Winnik didn't want to play here? - southernhawk
I think those two were resigned becasue Bowman considered them a priority....Especially Carcillo.
I don't see how resigning Cracillo and Mayers wouldn't leave room for a Winnick
A lot of assumptions there either way ...I can't have an opinion unless I know the contract offer was of equal value.
I don't get what everyone wanted from this offseason. Not talking about his lack of movement on trade deadlines or anything in the past. Simply THIS offseason. There were only two FAs worth getting at any cost and according to JJ bowman did everything he could to get them here. There are 29 other teams that didn't land the big fish of this FA class.
Outside of Parise and Suter what exactly out there helped fill our hole of a 2nd line center and starting goalie? Olli Jokinen was the closest thing to a legitimate 2nd line center and he would have been a terrible fit being a shoot first center.
If you want to say we should be looking to trade for this center, then Im with ya. Otherwise there was nothing out there that filled those needs. Filling the bottom lines with mclements and winniks doesn't help the biggest problems.
- Bhawks35
I'm not JJ (nor do I play him on TV), but here's what I wanted.
A LEGITIMATE top 4 defender to help lessen the strain on the top 2 and, y'know, improve the D.
A LEGITIMATE #2 C, preferrably someone with some size. shore up the top 6, maybe have a guy that can bang a bit in front of the net at even strength, or (GASP!!) the power play.
A bottom 6 checking forward.
I never really got all that excited about the "big name" UFAs this year particularly when the salaries & contract lengths got way out of control really fast.
I just wanted strategic, smart upgrades that make this team more of a threat for the cup as opposed to maybe getting into the second round.
Hopefully Stan has the cojones to try and improve this team via trade. I wouldn't put money on it, but that seems to be what we're left with. There is a huge group of good UFAs going into 13-14. I hope that isn't what Stan & Co are banking on...next year's off season.
I'm not JJ (nor do I play him on TV), but here's what I wanted.
A LEGITIMATE top 4 defender to help lessen the strain on the top 2 and, y'know, improve the D.
A LEGITIMATE #2 C, preferrably someone with some size. shore up the top 6, maybe have a guy that can bang a bit in front of the net at even strength, or (GASP!!) the power play.
A bottom 6 checking forward.
I never really got all that excited about the "big name" UFAs this year particularly when the salaries & contract lengths got way out of control really fast.
I just wanted strategic, smart upgrades that make this team more of a threat for the cup as opposed to maybe getting into the second round.
Hopefully Stan has the cojones to try and improve this team via trade. I wouldn't put money on it, but that seems to be what we're left with. There is a huge group of good UFAs going into 13-14. I hope that isn't what Stan & Co are banking on...next year's off season.
- InvisibleOrange
I agree those are all needs but those #2centers didnt exist in this FA class. In next years FA class those are plentiful, not this year. There was literally not a single legitimate #2 C to be had. (outside of maybe jokinen)
Top four D there were a cpl more options. Carle is a top 4 but came at a hefty price.
A bottom line checking winger (ala winnik) sure he would have been a nice addition but it would have been at the cost of a bickell/carcillo/stalberg/shaw/frolik or whoever else you want to put on the bottom 2 lines. He definitely would have been a nice pickup but would the difference between him and whoever he replaced been THAT great? Probably not. Certainly not making this team, who most ppl think are a one and done into a contender.
Location: 230 years was a good run, IL Joined: 01.20.2012
Jul 28 @ 4:43 PM ET
Barry "sign Joe Corvo" Rozner on WSCR this afternoon thinks the CBA will be resolved, and the season will be saved. Don't recall if he mentioned the lose of any games.
In an ironic twist, he thinks Don Fehr being a tough negotiator will actually expedite the negotiations.
Can't say I agree with him, but all I can do as a fan is hope for the best.
StLBravesFan Season Ticket Holder Chicago Blackhawks
Location: IL Joined: 07.03.2011
Jul 28 @ 4:55 PM ET
Barry "sign Joe Corvo" Rozner on WSCR this afternoon thinks the CBA will be resolved, and the season will be saved. Don't recall if he mentioned the lose of any games.
In an ironic twist, he thinks Don Fehr being a tough negotiator will actually expedite the negotiations.
Can't say I agree with him, but all I can do as a fan is hope for the best. - ArlingtonRob
Heard that - he also said that it was less a fight between league and players than one between rich and poor teams - which is one thing Al has said before.
Line 1: Patrick Sharp, Jonathan Toews, Marian Hossa
Line 2: Brandon Saad, Patrick Kane, Viktor Stalberg
Line 3: Dan Carcillo, Dave Bolland, Andrew Shaw
Line 4: Bryan Bickell, Marcus Kruger, Michael Frolik
The Blackhawks still have a lot of talent on the top two lines and will have even more if Saad is ready to be a full-time NHLer. Bolland remains one of the better third line centers in the league. If he stays healthy, Carcillo is a solid grinder/agitator. Even the fourth line is capable.
Line 1: Patrick Sharp, Jonathan Toews, Marian Hossa
Line 2: Brandon Saad, Patrick Kane, Viktor Stalberg
Line 3: Dan Carcillo, Dave Bolland, Andrew Shaw
Line 4: Bryan Bickell, Marcus Kruger, Michael Frolik
The Blackhawks still have a lot of talent on the top two lines and will have even more if Saad is ready to be a full-time NHLer. Bolland remains one of the better third line centers in the league. If he stays healthy, Carcillo is a solid grinder/agitator. Even the fourth line is capable.
From the bleacher report... - southernhawk
If Saad makes the team it will be in the top 6, but I really hope the Hawks don't rush the kid. On those lines above I'd switch Hossa with Stalberg and Carcillo with Frolik.
If Saad makes the team it will be in the top 6, but I really hope the Hawks don't rush the kid. On those lines above I'd switch Hossa with Stalberg and Carcillo with Frolik. - DarthKane
I wouldn't mind seeing car bomb with Shaw and Bolly .....the nucks would hate that
Line 1: Patrick Sharp, Jonathan Toews, Marian Hossa
Line 2: Brandon Saad, Patrick Kane, Viktor Stalberg
Line 3: Dan Carcillo, Dave Bolland, Andrew Shaw
Line 4: Bryan Bickell, Marcus Kruger, Michael Frolik
The Blackhawks still have a lot of talent on the top two lines and will have even more if Saad is ready to be a full-time NHLer. Bolland remains one of the better third line centers in the league. If he stays healthy, Carcillo is a solid grinder/agitator. Even the fourth line is capable.
If Saad makes the team it will be in the top 6, but I really hope the Hawks don't rush the kid. On those lines above I'd switch Hossa with Stalberg and Carcillo with Frolik. - DarthKane
While Ive made it clear that I'm not a fan of carcillo, I would like to see the Carcillo-Kane-Hossa line get another shot.
Kane excels on the perimeter, if you can have a guy that makes some room around the net (carcillo) it would open the ice up a bit for Kane and Hossa, which can't be a bad thing.
This post from hfboards is something that has to be shared here:
I didn't say anything about stats being everything. It was to counter the idea that some people seem to have, that the team is now made up of five NHL forwards and and then filled out w/ Mexican league castoffs. Offense has not really been the problem, it's consistency and special teams. They found other guys that can score. Not every team can.
Byfuglien was never going to score 50+ points as a defenseman here; he was never even going to go back to playing that position. Ladd was never going to score ~30 goals here; he would have remained a 15-20 goal checker. Versteeg was never going to score 50+ points here. Those spots were filled, that icetime was already assigned to other players, so they had to go for salary reasons.
It's what happens when a team wins, and not always just when they win a championship. Other teams want those players, those coaches, those scouts. They are considered winners, even if their contribitions were minimal. And teams give them up, either because they can't pay them anymore or because they think they can replaced by others.
The essential problem here is that too many people have elevated the 2010 team to legendary status. They went from "this team will never win, they're cursed" to "why don't they win every year?" People do the same thing w/ the 1985 Bears team -- they were The Greatest Team Ever and could beat the Hall of Fame team even w/ all of HoFers in their prime. No.
The in between has been lost; they're the best ever or junk -- players, teams, coaches, GMs, everyone. Great or garbage, and there's no such thing are good or pretty good or anything else. But most things and people are in between. Very little is completely amazing or completely worthless.
The constant "the team is soooo deep" never really came up, either among Chicago fans or anyone else, until right before they won (or maybe after). If they had lost to Philadelphia, the reason would have been that Philadelphia was the team that was "so deep" and that the Blackhawks didn't have enough good players, and were forced to use Colin Fraser, Adam Burish, Ben Eager, a broken down John Madden, and other "nobodies" as their depth.
Almost all the people who complained about Tallon when he was the GM switched positions after the win, and the only thing they hold against him is contracts. Everything else he did was the most amazing move ever ... except that he traded Radim Vrbata for Kevyn Adams, traded Anton Babchuk for Danny Richmond, traded Jaroslav Spacek for Tony Salmelainen, waived Craig Anderson, signed FA duds like Curtis Brown and Matthew Barnaby and then bought them both out. He got two high picks to work out quickly (Toews and Kane), made two trades for players who couldn't fit in w/ their old teams (Sharp and Versteeg), and signed two UFAs to big long contracts (Hossa and Campbell). If even one of those things doesn't work out for the Blackhawks, they don't win the Cup and they might not make it to 2nd or 3rd round of the playoffs.
And, somehow, the only good thing Bowman has done is trade Barker for Leddy. Everything else is the worse thing anyone could ever do.
If Stalberg had been the one on the 2010 winning team and then he was traded for Versteeg, people would be longing for Stalberg to come back and calling Versteeg a turnover machine who can never be counted on as a core player. If it had been Bickell standing in front of goalies and scoring a few game-winners in the playoffs, he would be the hero and his replacement (Dustin Byfuglien) would be some fat guy who doesn't try hard enough.