But did you listen to the parts where he kept saying that they need to add more pieces? He said now "there are no more excuses." Given that he has made noises about the Preds ownership not having the financial will to go for it all in the past year or two, I think that was revealing. I mean, what happens if the Preds don't add the extra pieces in the next two years, say?
- PT21

He has a contract and no leverage. So what do you expect a team captain making a bazillion $ to do? Become a problem in the room?

Shea will say what Shea needs to say until or if he gets a NTC and is trade eligible.

He gave them every chance to add pieces for years. Im not holding my breath.
- hereticpride

I can't imagine why Nashville would even begin to consider giving him an NTC. He can't demand one. He's accepted the OS and Nashville matched. There's no NTC/NMC possible in an OS. No matter what kind of handshake he may have had with the Flyers, it isn't binding on the Preds. They'd be foolish to offer that, now, when they may very well need flexibility at some future date when they've developed another couple of stud D.

Actually, there is absolute consistency. My point all along was that the Preds owners had the PERSONAL wealth to match the offer sheet if they were so inclined, but in terms of organizational finance and ROI, it did not make business sense to do so. I still hold by that.

The question to me was whether the Predators would seek a trade agreement or match the offer. Find me a single time where I said, "The Flyers should call the bluff because the Preds can't match it." You can't find it, because I never said it.

From a Philly standpoint, I wanted to see Philly increase the incentive for the Predators not to match by being proactive in offering an overlapping trade; and the one I proposed was a better deal than the one the Flyers offered prior to the offer sheet.

Oh and the Preds didn't "make plenty of money" last season. They LOST money and are one of the takers -- not a giver -- in the revenue-sharing pot.

Last but not least, read the code of conduct. Next time, you are banned. I don't ban often but I don't mess around when I drop the ban hammer, either.
- bmeltzer

You're alot of double talk Mr. Meltzer. I read your blog today. I had read your blog from two days ago as well. Two days ago you were talking about how they should make a trade. Today you say, "I had no doubt they'd match."

If you're going to put a disclaimer about speculation out there, especially with the extreme speculating you went into, then your writing is all for naught.


A few quotes:

1) There was never a question to me whether the Nashville Predators could match the Flyers' offer sheet to Shea Weber.

NO QUESTION? SEE BELOW

2) I would not be too surprised if there are rumblings tomorrow and/or Tuesday that the Predators' ownership has green-lighted David Poile to match the offer sheet.

WOULD NOT BE "TOO" SURPRISED? Means you would've been at least a little suprised.

3) Personally, I consider Weber enough of a difference-maker on the ice to advocate that the Flyers go the extra mile here to make sure Predators do not match the offer.

...MAKE SURE THEY DO NOT MATCH- I thought there was no doubt.

4)By the way, with the crazy way hockey's cap economics work, the Predators are actually in better position than Philly to get Voracek signed to a long-term deal than the Flyers are; especially if there's a no-match on Weber.

...IF THERE'S A NO-MATCH ON WEBER.

5) The already money-losing Predators' pride just got themselves into an almost impossible fiscal mess, with the situation a lock to get worse before it gets better.

MONEY-LOSING PREDS- You obviously have NO IDEA what you're talking about when it comes to the Preds' organization. They made ALOT of money last year. They sold out almost all of their games. They had five playoff sellouts. Corporate sponsorship went crazy. There's another new owner to the group.



Get a clue buddy. Sorry you're so butt hurt y'all failed your attempt to poach Weber away. It is what it is and Philly is going to have a not so hot season!
- TerryB

poached? we did you a favor. Your owners would have never shelled out that cash.

I can't imagine why Nashville would even begin to consider giving him an NTC. He can't demand one. He's accepted the OS and Nashville matched. There's no NTC/NMC possible in an OS. No matter what kind of handshake he may have had with the Flyers, it isn't binding on the Preds. They'd be foolish to offer that, now, when they may very well need flexibility at some future date when they've developed another couple of stud D.
- bodiva88

he could sit out and still get paid. that would be bad for them he has all the leverage in the world.

Whereas, Love It or List It is absolutely dreadful.
- bradleyc4

i hate that show. 30 minutes too long. bad writing. poorly acted.

He has a contract and no leverage. So what do you expect a team captain making a bazillion $ to do? Become a problem in the room?
- bodiva88

You mean like Rick Nash or Dany Heatley?

No kidding. There's always a "hidden problem" there's never a realistic budget to begin with and the skeevy list it guy? I'd never go into a house with him!
- bodiva88

i want to punch him in the face. the only good part about the show is seeing what random hockey equipment and paraphernalia is stashed in the basement.

...

Last but not least, read the code of conduct. Next time, you are banned. I don't ban often but I don't mess around when I drop the ban hammer, either.
- bmeltzer

I don't suppose there was any ambiguity with that point.

I've seen the word "butt hurt" more the past 2 days than I ever have in my life... mostly from Predators fans either on this site or twitter. Is this some regional lexicon I've never heard of? WTH?
- eayost

neither have i. it's so sad.

- Don'tForgetTocchet

(frank)ing meltzed to the max.

Actually, there is absolute consistency. My point all along was that the Preds owners had the PERSONAL wealth to match the offer sheet if they were so inclined, but in terms of organizational finance and ROI, it did not make business sense to do so. I still hold by that.

The question to me was whether the Predators would seek a trade agreement or match the offer. Find me a single time where I said, "The Flyers should call the bluff because the Preds can't match it." You can't find it, because I never said it.

From a Philly standpoint, I wanted to see Philly increase the incentive for the Predators not to match by being proactive in offering an overlapping trade; and the one I proposed was a better deal than the one the Flyers offered prior to the offer sheet.

Oh and the Preds didn't "make plenty of money" last season. They LOST money and are one of the takers -- not a giver -- in the revenue-sharing pot.

Last but not least, read the code of conduct. Next time, you are banned. I don't ban often but I don't mess around when I drop the ban hammer, either.
- bmeltzer

well played Bill. Us Flyers fans and many others appreciate your blogs.

he could sit out and still get paid. that would be bad for them he has all the leverage in the world.
- Philly1980

I think if he sat out the Preds could legally get their signing bonus money back. I believe there's precedence for that either in the NHL itself or certainly other leagues

I don't suppose there was any ambiguity with that point.


- 77rams

well played sir.

BTW how the heck could the flyers add both jbo and iggy? there is a cap people.

I think if he sat out the Preds could legally get their signing bonus money back. I believe there's precedence for that either in the NHL itself or certainly other leagues
- eayost

Doesn't have to go so far. His "clumsy" agents have already planted the seeds in a huge garden. A few guarded/veiled statements here and there and the weeds of rumor will start to grow w/o too much watering. If no pieces are added and NSH continues to makes early exits from post-season they will ask him if he is ok with the 'direction of franchise'. They will ask him if he is happy every time he has a string of less than dominating games. They will ask his coach, his gm if Shea's play is being subconsciously affected by his frustration from not sniffing the cup. And if he is just a tad veiled/guarded the story will have legs. And fester in the locker room. Soon it will be a full-blown distraction.

Well slap my grandmother! It is actually possible cap wise to add these guys. However, it makes 0 hockey sense for ether team to make these trades:

FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Jarome Iginla ($7.000m)
Danny Briere ($6.500m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m) / Jakub Voracek ($4.000m)
Wayne Simmonds ($1.750m) / Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Ruslan Fedotenko ($1.750m)
Tom Sestito ($0.605m) / Maxime Talbot ($1.750m) / Zac Rinaldo ($0.544m)
DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Braydon Coburn ($4.500m)
Jay Bouwmeester ($6.680m) / Bruno Gervais ($0.825m)
Nicklas Grossmann ($3.500m) / Luke Schenn ($3.600m)
Andreas Lilja ($0.738m)
GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.667m)
Michael Leighton ($0.900m)
BUYOUTS
Oskars Bartulis ($0.100m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $69,176,944; BONUSES: $2,705,000
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $1,023,056

CGY: Read, Mezzy, MAB, Cousins, (2) 1st
PHI: JBO, Iggy

Well slap my grandmother! It is actually possible cap wise to add these guys. However, it makes 0 hockey sense for ether team to make these trades:

FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Jarome Iginla ($7.000m)
Danny Briere ($6.500m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m) / Jakub Voracek ($4.000m)
Wayne Simmonds ($1.750m) / Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Ruslan Fedotenko ($1.750m)
Tom Sestito ($0.605m) / Maxime Talbot ($1.750m) / Zac Rinaldo ($0.544m)
DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Braydon Coburn ($4.500m)
Jay Bouwmeester ($6.680m) / Bruno Gervais ($0.825m)
Nicklas Grossmann ($3.500m) / Luke Schenn ($3.600m)
Andreas Lilja ($0.738m)
GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.667m)
Michael Leighton ($0.900m)
BUYOUTS
Oskars Bartulis ($0.100m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $69,176,944; BONUSES: $2,705,000
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $1,023,056

CGY: Read, Mezzy, MAB, Cousins, (2) 1st
PHI: JBO, Iggy
- coffee junkie

I find it funny you included picks in an already lopsided deal to get it work in capgeek.

For what its worth Iggy would never go for more than a 1st and prospect, if that. His deal is expiring and he's what, 38 now?

I find it funny you included picks in an already lopsided deal to get it work in capgeek.

For what its worh Iggy, would never go for more than a 1st and prospect, if that. His deal is expiring and he's what, 38 now?
- hereticpride

No the traded has little to do with the cap. I thought it would take more for this deal to get done (in magical fantasy land) because CGY would finally be admitting to being in a rebuild (which they desperately need).

BTW: I have no interest in this trade and was only entertaining myself on if it was possible to fit those players. If you like: Read, Mezzy, MAB, 1st, 2nd, 3rd (pretty much the exact deal rumored to be offered for Weber with MAB added).

Well slap my grandmother! It is actually possible cap wise to add these guys. However, it makes 0 hockey sense for ether team to make these trades:

FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Jarome Iginla ($7.000m)
Danny Briere ($6.500m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m) / Jakub Voracek ($4.000m)
Wayne Simmonds ($1.750m) / Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Ruslan Fedotenko ($1.750m)
Tom Sestito ($0.605m) / Maxime Talbot ($1.750m) / Zac Rinaldo ($0.544m)
DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Braydon Coburn ($4.500m)
Jay Bouwmeester ($6.680m) / Bruno Gervais ($0.825m)
Nicklas Grossmann ($3.500m) / Luke Schenn ($3.600m)
Andreas Lilja ($0.738m)
GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.667m)
Michael Leighton ($0.900m)
BUYOUTS
Oskars Bartulis ($0.100m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $69,176,944; BONUSES: $2,705,000
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $1,023,056

CGY: Read, Mezzy, MAB, Cousins, (2) 1st
PHI: JBO, Iggy
- coffee junkie

It can also be done by packaging Voracek/Shelley/Lilja. Picks and other players could be added to balance the deal, but those three players make enough money to let Philly add Bouwmeester and Iginla without going over the cap, once Pronger's on LTIR.

Well slap my grandmother! It is actually possible cap wise to add these guys. However, it makes 0 hockey sense for ether team to make these trades:

FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Jarome Iginla ($7.000m)
Danny Briere ($6.500m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m) / Jakub Voracek ($4.000m)
Wayne Simmonds ($1.750m) / Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Ruslan Fedotenko ($1.750m)
Tom Sestito ($0.605m) / Maxime Talbot ($1.750m) / Zac Rinaldo ($0.544m)
DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Braydon Coburn ($4.500m)
Jay Bouwmeester ($6.680m) / Bruno Gervais ($0.825m)
Nicklas Grossmann ($3.500m) / Luke Schenn ($3.600m)
Andreas Lilja ($0.738m)
GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.667m)
Michael Leighton ($0.900m)
BUYOUTS
Oskars Bartulis ($0.100m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $69,176,944; BONUSES: $2,705,000
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $1,023,056

CGY: Read, Mezzy, MAB, Cousins, (2) 1st
PHI: JBO, Iggy
- coffee junkie

Hmmmmmmmm



EDIT: Iginla still has it. Only thing sucky is the cap hit, but he can resign and drop that down a bit. 8 straight 30 goal seasons.....

Did we make a trade for the sake of a trade? I figure Nash went for nothing so the Flyers would get Ryan, JayBo, or another for a pair of skates.

Hmmmmmmmm



EDIT: Iginla still has it. Only thing sucky is the cap hit, but he can resign and drop that down a bit. 8 straight 30 goal seasons.....
- aosplayo

Ive said it before... if we have the room for him I dont care about the cap hit for one year. He'd be a fantastic addition to the team. Thing is I think Feaster still thinks he's worth top dollar.

Did we make a trade for the sake of a trade? I figure Nash went for nothing so the Flyers would get Ryan, JayBo, or another for a pair of skates.
- stveshdy

Unless it's for a top D man or an impact winger, and they can be had for picks alone I dont go the trade route right now.

Actually, there is absolute consistency. My point all along was that the Preds owners had the PERSONAL wealth to match the offer sheet if they were so inclined, but in terms of organizational finance and ROI, it did not make business sense to do so. I still hold by that.

The question to me was whether the Predators would seek a trade agreement or match the offer. Find me a single time where I said, "The Flyers should call the bluff because the Preds can't match it." You can't find it, because I never said it.

From a Philly standpoint, I wanted to see Philly increase the incentive for the Predators not to match by being proactive in offering an overlapping trade; and the one I proposed was a better deal than the one the Flyers offered prior to the offer sheet.

Oh and the Preds didn't "make plenty of money" last season. They LOST money and are one of the takers -- not a giver -- in the revenue-sharing pot.

Last but not least, read the code of conduct. Next time, you are banned. I don't ban often but I don't mess around when I drop the ban hammer, either.
- bmeltzer

I regard myself as a pretty objective hockey observer, right now this is made pretty easy by my general irritation with the direction of the Leafs over the past couple years. I tend to follow three blogs fairly regularly, Yost, Meltzer and Clouthier because the discussion tends to stick to serious hockey discussion.

In regard to the Weber affair I thought Meltzer was unfailingly objective in his opinions. He was clearly less hawkish than some Flyer fans who wanted a take it or leave it approach to the offer. He advocated a middle of the road strategy that would have the Flyers sweeten the offer. I think I remember correctly that in one blog he suggested only Giroux should be beyond consideration when talking of the potential acquisition of a player of Weber's stature. I thought that there was going to be a deal. I thought it would be announced tonight. I believe Nashville may regret acting so quickly. I was sure the final deal would include either Couturier or Schenn and I was certain Meltzer would have been the first up with a blog explaining how valuable a franchise Dman is in a quest for the Stanley Cup.

Having said that, I would ask that you be lenient with our Nashville friend. There is no doubt that some writers, bloggers and commentators have abused and trivialized the Nashville franchise. I think he may have confused Meltzer's comments with some other commentators or some of the posters following Meltzer who took a more dogmatic view. Regardless of the outcome, Meltzer has done an outstanding job of providing timely, objective and thought provoking analysis for the entire week. Flyer fans are lucky to have him.

I regard myself as a pretty objective hockey observer, right now this is made pretty easy by my general irritation with the direction of the Leafs over the past couple years. I tend to follow three blogs fairly regularly, Yost, Meltzer and Clouthier because the discussion tends to stick to serious hockey discussion.

In regard to the Weber affair I thought Meltzer was unfailingly objective in his opinions. He was clearly less hawkish than some Flyer fans who wanted a take it or leave it approach to the offer. He advocated a middle of the road strategy that would have the Flyers sweeten the offer. I think I remember correctly that in one blog he suggested only Giroux should be beyond consideration when talking of the potential acquisition of a player of Weber's stature. I thought that there was going to be a deal. I thought it would be announced tonight. I believe Nashville may regret acting so quickly. I was sure the final deal would include either Couturier or Schenn and I was certain Meltzer would have been the first up with a blog explaining how valuable a franchise Dman is in a quest for the Stanley Cup.

Having said that, I would ask that you be lenient with our Nashville friend. There is no doubt that some writers, bloggers and commentators have abused and trivialized the Nashville franchise. I think he may have confused Meltzer's comments with some other commentators or some of the posters following Meltzer who took a more dogmatic view. Regardless of the outcome, Meltzer has done an outstanding job of providing timely, objective and thought provoking analysis for the entire week. Flyer fans are lucky to have him.
- spatso