Here is the second list

Coaching Staff

Randy Carlyle - Head Coach
Dave Farrish - Assistant Coach
Scott Gordon - Assistant Coach
Greg Cronin - Assistant Coach
Francois Allaire - Goaltending Consultant
Barb Underhill - Skating Consultant
Chris Dennis - Assistant Coach/Video
Adam Jancelewicz - Video Coordinator

The above is why I'm so surprised that Colin wouldn't think Luongo would fetch at least that and a 2nd rounder.
- LeafsOwnHabs

Agreed. Maybe third line grinder as his ceiling is a bit low, although realistically I'd say that's where he ends up, I'd say his ceiling is basically Clark MacArthur. Anyone with a brain cell would do Mac + 2nd for Luongo. Well, maybe not Gillis but if that was the asking price and we turned it down we'd be stupid.

And, yeah, a salary dump as well going to Vancouver.

why does everyone laugh when i say that?!
- Dozzer

Definitely quality when you're not coma inducing, how's that? lol

no he's not.

nash is over rated and will crash and burn. staal is the better player. they're both canadian, but if I have to choose one it's not rick i can't get a hat trick and my name's not steve nash. rangers will send him to the minors to play with redden before all is said and done.
- therealagent

wow. think you need to pick a new sport - you don't know a damn thing about this one

Bernier - 23 years old, 11th overall pick, bunch of awards and rather decent numbers. Potential for teams who need a goalie....no real cap/salary issues.

Luongo - 33 years old, many think hes inconsistent/buckles under pressure, 10 year contract, 5.3M cap hit and if acquired means any goalies behind him will likely be sitting for a few solid years.

This is exactly why Berniers value will rise, because hes competing with Luongo, who can essentially only be moved to 1/2 teams.
- Colin Dambrauskas

I could easily change this around.

Bernier - 41 total games of NHL experience. Has asked his team to be moved before the end of the summer. Played behind a Stanley Cup winning team, spoorting only a .911 sv%. ,

Luongo - Gold medal winner, 4-time Vezina trophy finalist. Recently took his team to the Stanley Cup finals. Starting goalie of the 2009-2010 President's trophy winners. Career .919 sv%. One of the top 5 most consistent goaltenders in the NHL the last 8 years.

Here is the second list

Coaching Staff

Randy Carlyle - Head Coach
Dave Farrish - Assistant Coach
Scott Gordon - Assistant Coach
Greg Cronin - Assistant Coach
Francois Allaire - Goaltending Consultant
Barb Underhill - Skating Consultant
Chris Dennis - Assistant Coach/Video
Adam Jancelewicz - Video Coordinator
- LeafMan

my friend is on that list

I guess we really won't find out who's right until both get traded so we can compare the players they were traded for. I wonder if both get traded before next season starts.
- LeafsOwnHabs

given that both have publicly asked for a trade, it would be incredibly stupid of the GM's to allow those players back into the locker rooms.

Agreed. Maybe third line grinder as his ceiling is a bit low, although realistically I'd say that's where he ends up, I'd say his ceiling is basically Clark MacArthur. Anyone with a brain cell would do Mac + 2nd for Luongo. Well, maybe not Gillis but if that was the asking price and we turned it down we'd be stupid.

And, yeah, a salary dump as well going to Vancouver.
- deerow84

For some reason Mac and a 2nd would probably seem less to some people than Frattin and a 2nd.
People see young hard working players and always over value and over estimate their ceiling. I think Frattin maxes out at being a MacArthur type player. Actually the Leafs would be pleased if Frattin ever reached that level.

True, but Versteeg was a deadline deal. People overpay at the deadline compared to deals made in the offseason. Was Paul Gaustad worth a 1st round pick? Was Quincey worth a D and a 1st round pick? simply no, but deadline deals get more value than offseason deals
- ILoveLamp

Agree, but then again, how much more value does Luongo have to Gaustad and Quincey? Value drops, but not as mucha s you are saying.

Regardless, I don't want the LEafs to get him, I just think he will cost at least a 1st rounder.

id say the team is better than it was any of the last 7 years.
- big_dion

The Leafs are a better team, at least on paper than the team that finished the season.

So if you compare the teams in the rest of the division, who has upgraded their team. Unless i'm wrong, the Leafs are the only team in the division that has actually upgraded itself since the end of the season.

Am I wrong?

Bernier, huh? Interesting.

Burkie going back on his word...doesn't seem to happen to often

my friend is on that list
- big_dion

You don't have friends! Good one.

I could easily change this around.

Bernier - 41 total games of NHL experience. Has asked his team to be moved before the end of the summer. Played behind a Stanley Cup winning team, spoorting only a .911 sv%. ,

Luongo - Gold medal winner, 4-time Vezina trophy finalist. Recently took his team to the Stanley Cup finals. Starting goalie of the 2009-2010 President's trophy winners. Career .919 sv%. One of the top 5 most consistent goaltenders in the NHL the last 8 years.
- mfreedman

dude,

Young goalie with very high potential ceiling

vs

old goalie who just lost his job and demanded a trade with an albatross of a contract.

Value is pretty close. And if you're giving the same package for either player, I'd rather have Bernier, even though he's still a bit of a question mark.

Agree, but then again, how much more value does Luongo have to Gaustad and Quincey? Value drops, but not as mucha s you are saying.

Regardless, I don't want the LEafs to get him, I just think he will cost at least a 1st rounder.
- mfreedman

It absolutely will. Personally, I don't think Burke will out bid Howson for Bernier, so I wouldn't worry about it

Bernier, huh? Interesting.

Burkie going back on his word...doesn't seem to happen to often
- celata29

for what it's worth, it was only "speculated" by Burger's buddy that it was Bernier...
Which really doesn't mean a damn thing. It is more likely Luongo.

Definitely quality when you're not coma inducing, how's that? lol
- LeafMan

I don't think we can say whether or not Toronto has quantity or quality. Most of this staff came with Burke. The coaching staff is new this year. and the Scouts have had limited draft picks to work with.

Until we have 6 full seasons, we cannot evaluate whether we are progressing or not.

I say this because of all the tools being utilized will take time to see results. Scouts will require time to make their picks and those picks will take time to develop. Carlyle's coaching systems will take time to be implemented and more so, Wilson's systems habits will take time to be broken. I'm willing to give two more seasons to this rebuild. By then, my expectations are that we are sitting 5-8 in the conference, and we're on the brink of bringing in the big players that will put us over the edge.

Bernier, huh? Interesting.

Burkie going back on his word...doesn't seem to happen to often
- celata29

Until it happens I don't give it any credit really, it is mor ejust discussing the idea.

People already started giving Burke flak for trying to acquire Luongo... People seem to hate him when the media suggests he might trade for someone they dont like, even though there has been no indication he is actually trying for them.

Toronto media is sickening.

dude,

Young goalie with very high potential ceiling

vs

old goalie who just lost his job and demanded a trade with an albatross of a contract.

Value is pretty close. And if you're giving the same package for either player, I'd rather have Bernier, even though he's still a bit of a question mark.
- Big_Lightnin

This

The contract being the only reason.

Hockeyy Insiderr ‏@HockeyyInsiderr
Rumor update: #LAKings and #Leafs closing in on a deal that would send Bernier to TO for a package centered around Frattin. "Deal close".

Until it happens I don't give it any credit really, it is mor ejust discussing the idea.

People already started giving Burke flak for trying to acquire Luongo... People seem to hate him when the media suggests he might trade for someone they dont like, even though there has been no indication he is actually trying for them.

Toronto media is sickening.
- mfreedman

I know it's just speculation, but just mean if it's true, that it is very interesting.

This also serves as a response to Big_Lightnin too

This

The contract being the only reason.
- celata29

that and he could be your starting goalie for years to come.

Hockeyy Insiderr ‏@HockeyyInsiderr
Rumor update: #LAKings and #Leafs closing in on a deal that would send Bernier to TO for a package centered around Frattin. "Deal close".
- mfreedman

I hear a lot about Frattin, is he a projected 3rd line type of grinder?

Until it happens I don't give it any credit really, it is mor ejust discussing the idea.

People already started giving Burke flak for trying to acquire Luongo... People seem to hate him when the media suggests he might trade for someone they dont like, even though there has been no indication he is actually trying for them.

Toronto media is sickening.
- mfreedman

It is the same way here when bloggers reference it, or even twitter, people go ballistic on the GM for a rumour, it is very comical to see.

I know it's just speculation, but just mean if it's true, that it is very interesting.

This also serves as a response to Big_Lightnin too
- celata29

I agree, but his quote was somthing along the lines of:

"We are not willing to ship out key pieces for an unproven goaltender"

People took this as they won't trade for someone unproven.

The part I focussed on was "Will not trade key pieces"

If he ships out a 2nd and a mid level prospect, then its not too bad.

Hockeyy Insiderr ‏@HockeyyInsiderr
Rumor update: #LAKings and #Leafs closing in on a deal that would send Bernier to TO for a package centered around Frattin. "Deal close".
- mfreedman

man I hope not.

Not that Frattin's a future 1st liner or anything, but he's the only prospect that plays with any grit, right now, and he's ready.