Bernier's NHL GAA is a third of a goal better. that's a pretty big difference IMO.
- DoubleDown

Nope, when you consider that Bernier is a backup and playing weaker opposition and is on a stronger team. It's extremely close. Reimer's S% is >.

Luongo would cost a 1st round pick. There is no way Gillis ships him off without a 1st coming back.

To us, that first is too precious and Burke wouldn't give it up (i hope). To a team that finishes in the playoffs, it would be worth it.

I personally would trade our first if it was top 10 protected.
- mfreedman

Maybe if it means Lombardi AND Komisarek are in the deal...aside from that, I strongly disagree. Sorry my man, typically were on the same page, but Gillis can ask for 7 1st rounders he wont get a single. (seriously going to eat my words if this happens...)

Quantity not Quality right?
- wolfos412

Brian Burke - President & General Manager
Dave Nonis - Senior Vice-President of Hockey Operations
Dave Poulin - Vice-President of Hockey Operations
Claude Loiselle - Assistant General Manager
Cliff Fletcher - Special Advisor
Jim Hughes - Director of Player Development
Steve Staios - Player Development Advisor
Reid Mitchell - Director, Hockey & Scouting Administration
Dave Griffiths - Team Services Manager

Is this quantity or quality?

That makes 9 in Management

add in 8 in the coaching staff

and 23 scouts

more management than players, lol
- LeafMan

and yet none of them can play center....

Nope, when you consider that Bernier is a backup and playing weaker opposition and is on a stronger team. It's extremely close. Reimer's S% is >.
- burn

And I said earlier Reimers 2.8 inluded his Cuncussed season this year which he had a 3.1Gaa... before the concussion he was a 2.6

Thing is, I agree that Luongo has value and I agree hes a better option than Bernier...but where the disconnect is between us two seems that youre not considering that Vancouver has VERY limited trading partners for Luongo where as LA has a bunch, arguably. Not much risk in Bernier, and he has potential with his age. Most teams would rather take on Bernier.
- Colin Dambrauskas

I don't see how he would get more or even close to what Luongo would fetch. He was lucky to be a back up on a Stanley cup winning team. I don't think that ring adds any real trade value to Berniers worth.

Brian Burke - President & General Manager
Dave Nonis - Senior Vice-President of Hockey Operations
Dave Poulin - Vice-President of Hockey Operations
Claude Loiselle - Assistant General Manager
Cliff Fletcher - Special Advisor
Jim Hughes - Director of Player Development
Steve Staios - Player Development Advisor
Reid Mitchell - Director, Hockey & Scouting Administration
Dave Griffiths - Team Services Manager

Is this quantity or quality?
- LeafMan

Based on the results so far: Quantity, without question. I would bet there there are teams with 1/3 as much front office staff (and probably 1/10 the salary paid to them) who have far more success.

Based on the results so far: Quantity, without question. I would bet there there are teams with 1/3 as much front office staff (and probably 1/10 the salary paid to them) who have far more success.
- deerow84

Nonis is Quality.

Maybe if it means Lombardi AND Komisarek are in the deal...aside from that, I strongly disagree. Sorry my man, typically were on the same page, but Gillis can ask for 7 1st rounders he wont get a single. (seriously going to eat my words if this happens...)
- Colin Dambrauskas

I think Gillis gets crucified if he doesn't get a first or some kind of equivalent to that first (i.e a Kadri type unproven first) in a deal where Gillis has to take back at least one dead weight type player as well (Conolly or Komi)

Nonis is Quality.
- wolfos412

I like Nonis. But he could easily replace about three or four of those jobs himself (including GM as far as I'm concerned).

Maybe if it means Lombardi AND Komisarek are in the deal...aside from that, I strongly disagree. Sorry my man, typically were on the same page, but Gillis can ask for 7 1st rounders he wont get a single. (seriously going to eat my words if this happens...)
- Colin Dambrauskas

I never mentioned a top 1st, but if A guy like Versteeg got us a 1st and a 3rd with how he played, then a goalie that consistently has one of the top save percentages in the lague during the regular season is going to cost a 1st.

Like I said, maybe not a high first, but mid 1st at least.

However, I dont think he'll be traded anytime soon, so we may never know.

Brian Burke - President & General Manager
Dave Nonis - Senior Vice-President of Hockey Operations
Dave Poulin - Vice-President of Hockey Operations
Claude Loiselle - Assistant General Manager
Cliff Fletcher - Special Advisor
Jim Hughes - Director of Player Development
Steve Staios - Player Development Advisor
Reid Mitchell - Director, Hockey & Scouting Administration
Dave Griffiths - Team Services Manager

Is this quantity or quality?
- LeafMan

= dozzer - omnipotent being

and i'm aaaalllll quality baby

are you a comic purist? i've noticed purists not being thrilled with the trilogy.
- DoubleDown

Not really, I usually like most of the movies, I think so far, The Avengers was the best of the three recent releases between The Amazing Spiderman, Dark Knight Rises. It is Bale that makes me not like the Nolan trilogy all that much.

Based on the results so far: Quantity, without question. I would bet there there are teams with 1/3 as much front office staff (and probably 1/10 the salary paid to them) who have far more success.
- deerow84

Too many cooks in the kitchen?

I don't see how he would get more or even close to what Luongo would fetch. He was lucky to be a back up on a Stanley cup winning team. I don't think that ring adds any real trade value to Berniers worth.
- LeafsOwnHabs

Bernier - 23 years old, 11th overall pick, bunch of awards and rather decent numbers. Potential for teams who need a goalie....no real cap/salary issues.

Luongo - 33 years old, many think hes inconsistent/buckles under pressure, 10 year contract, 5.3M cap hit and if acquired means any goalies behind him will likely be sitting for a few solid years.

This is exactly why Berniers value will rise, because hes competing with Luongo, who can essentially only be moved to 1/2 teams.

Based on the results so far: Quantity, without question. I would bet there there are teams with 1/3 as much front office staff (and probably 1/10 the salary paid to them) who have far more success.
- deerow84

I just put the list out there to see what you guys think, I actually like Dave Nonis and Dave Poulin, stand up guys with the media, Poulin you will see at a lot of Marlies games talking to the fans.

I never mentioned a top 1st, but if A guy like Versteeg got us a 1st and a 3rd with how he played, then a goalie that consistently has one of the top save percentages in the lague during the regular season is going to cost a 1st.

Like I said, maybe not a high first, but mid 1st at least.

However, I dont think he'll be traded anytime soon, so we may never know.
- mfreedman

Versteeg could score goals and is 26 years old (was 25). Had a mediocre salary and had value...was traded because he just didnt fit. Not really comparable imo.

I think Gillis gets crucified if he doesn't get a first or some kind of equivalent to that first (i.e a Kadri type unproven first) in a deal where Gillis has to take back at least one dead weight type player as well (Conolly or Komi)
- LeafsOwnHabs

I'd do Komi + Kadri for Luongo. I know people will have a mental breakdown about it (they already are about Frattin, who is 24 and still hasn't solidified a spot on one of the worst teams in the NHL and probably has a ceiling of a third line grinder who puts up the odd point) but Luongo is going to help us a lot more than Kadri this season, next season, the season after that, etc. etc....plus we'd get rid of Komi in the process.

I like Nonis. But he could easily replace about three or four of those jobs himself (including GM as far as I'm concerned).
- deerow84

They need to simplify and give more control to less people. I hope Nonis steps in for Burke when he's done. I also have a feeling that the plethora of staff could also be sympathy jobs for people who just got canned or are looking for work.

= dozzer - omnipotent being

and i'm aaaalllll quality baby
- Dozzer

haha

Bernier - 23 years old, 11th overall pick, bunch of awards and rather decent numbers. Potential for teams who need a goalie....no real cap/salary issues.

Luongo - 33 years old, many think hes inconsistent/buckles under pressure, 10 year contract, 5.3M cap hit and if acquired means any goalies behind him will likely be sitting for a few solid years.

This is exactly why Berniers value will rise, because hes competing with Luongo, who can essentially only be moved to 1/2 teams.
- Colin Dambrauskas

I guess we really won't find out who's right until both get traded so we can compare the players they were traded for. I wonder if both get traded before next season starts.

haha
- LeafMan

why does everyone laugh when i say that?!

I never mentioned a top 1st, but if A guy like Versteeg got us a 1st and a 3rd with how he played, then a goalie that consistently has one of the top save percentages in the lague during the regular season is going to cost a 1st.

Like I said, maybe not a high first, but mid 1st at least.

However, I dont think he'll be traded anytime soon, so we may never know.
- mfreedman

True, but Versteeg was a deadline deal. People overpay at the deadline compared to deals made in the offseason. Was Paul Gaustad worth a 1st round pick? Was Quincey worth a D and a 1st round pick? simply no, but deadline deals get more value than offseason deals

I'd do Komi + Kadri for Luongo. I know people will have a mental breakdown about it (they already are about Frattin, who is 24 and still hasn't solidified a spot on one of the worst teams in the NHL and probably has a ceiling of a third line grinder who puts up the odd point) but Luongo is going to help us a lot more than Kadri this season, next season, the season after that, etc. etc....plus we'd get rid of Komi in the process.
- deerow84

The above is why I'm so surprised that Colin wouldn't think Luongo would fetch at least that and a 2nd rounder.

Versteeg could score goals and is 26 years old (was 25). Had a mediocre salary and had value...was traded because he just didnt fit. Not really comparable imo.
- Colin Dambrauskas

Different situation maybe, but at the time I would say that he had less value that Luongo does now.

Not much we can really do by arguing it, I guess we'll just have to wait until the trade. In the end, neither of us really knows