i'm starting to lose it a bit myself.
- hammarby31

I feel and am acting like I'm 12....

Let's not forget they talked numerous times before the sheet, too. For Poile to seem serious in his effort, he had to have ownership take a few days to analyze things financially.
- Jsaquella

If your Nashville why trade Weber if you dont get back Schenn or Couturier? Everyone is saying they have the money to match this offer sheet so why accept a trade that doesnt include one of the young guys that they want. Just hang onto Weber for the year and take it from there.

I think Baicker does a good job trying to actually cover the sport. And she plays, so she understands the rules, which is an advantage she seems to have over the other folks. I thought Bowen was good, but now he's on football. And I thought Moran was good but now he's coaching rowing. I don't think there's much to choose from in the Philadelphia media. Seravelli had promise, but he seems to have come under the thrall of the TMZ- inspired Carchidi and Panotch.
- bodiva88

I understand where you are coming from Bill. I guess if Schenn or Couturier aren't part of a deal, the Flyers will be winners here, I think if there never was an offer sheet I would be willing to give up a significant package for Weber, but being that it appears he can be had for what essentially is the equivalent of 4 late round picks that is the preferred route.
- PLindbergh31

Even with Couturier or Schenn, there's still a scenario where I'd do the trade (but it wouldn't much make sense for Nashville, IMO):

Predators get one or the other. In return they agree to no match on the Weber OS, Preds keep 2013 1st rounder, Philly gets back 2014 first rounder with option of swapping it back to Predators for Nashville's first rounder (quite possibly moving up 10+ spots in the draft held in Philly), Philly gets back 2015 and 2016 first rounders.

To me, the Voracek, Meszaros, Gus or MAB plus a first-rounder staying with Preds type of arrangement sounds a lot more palatable to Preds.

At any rate, my main point is that no one except Giroux should be absolutely off limits in an agreement for a no-match on Weber. It all depends on what the entire agreement would look like.

- hammarby31

Frank the Tank, with a gaggle of skank.

While we value him that much, I don't know of the Preds do. They need outright offensive superstars, not a Coots.
- wilsonecho91

that's a good point, but is that really what they need? i hope you're right.

I feel and am acting like I'm 12....
- JoeRussomanno

this conversation could go in a lot of different directions right now.

Even with Couturier or Schenn, there's still a scenario where I'd do the trade (but it wouldn't much make sense for Nashville, IMO):

Predators get one or the other. In return they agree to no match on the Weber OS, Preds keep 2013 1st rounder, Philly gets back 2014 first rounder with option of swapping it back to Predators for Nashville's first rounder (quite possibly moving up 10+ spots in the draft held in Philly), Philly gets back 2015 and 2016 first rounders.

To me, the Voracek, Meszaros, Gus or MAB plus a first-rounder staying with Preds type of arrangement sounds a lot more palatable to Preds.
- bmeltzer

I get the feeling you think Weber will be a Flyers via the trade route of roster players. I guess that seems most logical. Not sure how this plays out, but it sure will be interesting.

If Nashville matches, it pretty much because they want to avoid the scrutiny from the media, and the criticism from their fans. Their bean counters know this doesn't make sense financially for the stability of their franchise.

I'm of the opinion if they let Weber go for the picks, they will be a 75-80 point team this year, and then if they package the picks for players, draft well, and use their significant cap room to sign free agents, they will be a 100+ point team in short order.

They have a top 5 goaltender in the NHL, that alone right there ensures they will be somewhat competitive.
- PLindbergh31

If they let Weber go for picks, then turn around and trade for a solid defenseman and decent top six winger, they'll still have an OK team next season. They're going to have to reach the floor, which was a large part of why I suggested trading Voracek, Meszaros for two of the picks. Voracek signs for near $4mm, and there's two solid NHLers taking up $8mm in cap room.

Throw another first and prospect at Calgary for Bouwmeester and you've brought in two solid replacements for Weber and Suter, added a top six forward with potential and still have an extra 1st rounder. It closes the gap to the salary floor almost completely and you're paying the cap hits, not massive bonuses.

Frank the Tank, with a gaggle of skank.
- PLindbergh31

that's not very nice, sir.

If they let Weber go for picks, then turn around and trade for a solid defenseman and decent top six winger, they'll still have an OK team next season. They're going to have to reach the floor, which was a large part of why I suggested trading Voracek, Meszaros for two of the picks. Voracek signs for near $4mm, and there's two solid NHLers taking up $8mm in cap room.

Throw another first and prospect at Calgary for Bouwmeester and you've brought in two solid replacements for Weber and Suter, added a top six forward with potential and still have an extra 1st rounder. It closes the gap to the salary floor almost completely and you're paying the cap hits, not massive bonuses.
- Jsaquella

Exactly. They have a bunch of options. If they match this contract, what are their legitimate options? Seems like they will be hamstrung.

this conversation could go in a lot of different directions right now.
- hammarby31

I care, I want Shea Weber!

For real, though, it wouldn't be the end of the world. That said, I'm in favor of a fair deal to assure they don't match.
- BulliesPhan87

last 4 years running i ALWAYS have s. weber as my #1 d guy in fantasy hockey

i am a big fan of his...

but still.. if we don't get him it's ok. i like our team.

Even with Couturier or Schenn, there's still a scenario where I'd do the trade (but it wouldn't much make sense for Nashville, IMO):

Predators get one or the other. In return they agree to no match on the Weber OS, Preds keep 2013 1st rounder, Philly gets back 2014 first rounder with option of swapping it back to Predators for Nashville's first rounder (quite possibly moving up 10+ spots in the draft held in Philly), Philly gets back 2015 and 2016 first rounders.

To me, the Voracek, Meszaros, Gus or MAB plus a first-rounder staying with Preds type of arrangement sounds a lot more palatable to Preds.

At any rate, my main point is that no one except Giroux should be absolutely off limits in an agreement for a no-match on Weber. It all depends on what the entire agreement would look like.
- bmeltzer

I think if it came down to a trade I could live with giving up Voracek, Mez, MAB or Gust, and a 1st. The Flyers get Weber and still can add another forward.

If your Nashville why trade Weber if you dont get back Schenn or Couturier? Everyone is saying they have the money to match this offer sheet so why accept a trade that doesnt include one of the young guys that they want. Just hang onto Weber for the year and take it from there.
- stveshdy

Several reasons.

1. I need to get to the salary floor. Couturier's deal won't do it and neither will Schenn's.

2. I also would need bodies. The best PR thing for the Preds, short of Weber staying, would be to have names to sell to the fanbase. Voracek and Meszaros alone pretty much make up the cap hit of Weber, and if there's a third piece like Gus, it helps a bit, too. Then the other firsts could be used to add other players.

I keep saying Bouwmeester because his cap hit and rumors make him a perfect guy for the Preds' situation

that's not very nice, sir.
- hammarby31

I think Seravalli fancies himself as Paulie Walnuts with that head of gray hair.

If they let Weber go for picks, then turn around and trade for a solid defenseman and decent top six winger, they'll still have an OK team next season. They're going to have to reach the floor, which was a large part of why I suggested trading Voracek, Meszaros for two of the picks. Voracek signs for near $4mm, and there's two solid NHLers taking up $8mm in cap room.

Throw another first and prospect at Calgary for Bouwmeester and you've brought in two solid replacements for Weber and Suter, added a top six forward with potential and still have an extra 1st rounder. It closes the gap to the salary floor almost completely and you're paying the cap hits, not massive bonuses.
- Jsaquella

my best case scenario is this exactly. take the flyers picks and acquire players elsewhere. hard to see this happening, imo.

One sobering thought before I log off. I just checked nhl trade history back to 2000 looking at all trades involving first round picks.

1. Most were either at draft or trade deadline
2. Most were picks in the immediate upcoming draft (some exceptions of course).
3. If not trading up/down in current draft or deadline deals, they were part of a larger deal where the team giving up the pick was also including players in the trade.
4. Some exceptions that were in the summer or early in the season. Back up goalies (Varlamov), Kessel deal.
5. Rarely was a pick 2 years away. One exception was the pick that got us Carter in the Langkow trade. That was a future pick.

The point I was checking was Bill's comment that the Preds could trade some of those picks to another team to get a more valuable roster player than Flyers want to give up. Of course it's always possible, but after looking at last 12-13 years it really seems future picks are not as valuable to NHL GM's (unlike NFL, where picks play in 1st year after draft)

Anyway, apologies to Bill if I annoyed you.

I think Seravalli fancies himself as Paulie Walnuts with that head of gray hair.
- PLindbergh31

You're not gonna believe this. He killed sixteen Czechoslovakians. Guy was an interior decorator.

my best case scenario is this exactly. take the flyers picks and acquire players elsewhere. hard to see this happening, imo.
- hammarby31

I think if Holmgren sits tight and doesn't jump the gun there is a fairly good chance of it happening. It's a game of chicken, who blinks first.

no way ed wants to walk away after coming this close unless NSH is ridonculous w/ their demands. jake and mez is a reasonable return for both sides, imo
- isaiah520

jake and mesz are two of my favorite current flyers



like big time favorites


if they = weber i do that trade 7 days a week

I think Seravalli fancies himself as Paulie Walnuts with that head of gray hair.
- PLindbergh31

he might. don't care what you say about him. it was the ladies.

last 4 years running i ALWAYS have s. weber as my #1 d guy in fantasy hockey

i am a big fan of his...

but still.. if we don't get him it's ok. i like our team.
- Don'tForgetTocchet

the last time I heard/read someone say that he was lying

You're not gonna believe this. He killed sixteen Czechoslovakians. Guy was an interior decorator.
- JoeRussomanno

Stellar character. Sirico was the best portraying Walnuts. He had me howling at least once an episode.

Exactly. They have a bunch of options. If they match this contract, what are their legitimate options? Seems like they will be hamstrung.
- PLindbergh31

That's where I think it really breaks down for the Predators. They will need an influx of cash that may turn out to be good money throw in after bad to even ice a competitive team around Weber and Rinne.