I think it pretty much does. The whole reason for giving the OS is that they were at an impasse and couldn't agree to a deal. If Holmgren was prepared to give more, or give just a little more, as you put it. Why didn't he do so, rather then force an OS on Nashville? I think it's pretty obvious that they couldn't come to a compromise between the two teams positions.
- MJL

I agree with this!

EDIT: Actually, MJL, I can see Homer going a little bit beyond the offer just to get something done. When you feel like you're so close to the end in negotiations, you are willing to go that one extra step to get it done.

But I do agree that he won't completely bend over. If he truly considered Coots and Schenn untouchable then, he likely won't make that drastic of an about-face.

Okay. We're on different levels then. Your basically saying they have money to match but dont have enough to keep him long term? I'm trying to understand. I get they have options but if money isn't an issue to this franchise then why will they have to explore other options when they have money to spend? So in reality if they are having doubts about finances down the road it makes no sense to match this offer sheet unless they want to pay Weber 26m and then trade him. At that point his value will decrease bc teams know he's being shopped. I could be wrong but this is just my opinion of course.
- stveshdy

I'm sure in the grand scheme of things they can pay that sum. However what are the ramifications. I can't see how this doesn't devastate them if they match. Four first round picks are nothing to scoff at either. Look at the players the Flyers have drafted with these late first rounders. If Nash can pick up those kinds of players with those picks they become a pretty competitive team in 5 years. Also they could turn around and trade a couple back to either us or another team and get some damn good players, while remaining competitive, and keeping the check book re-order form dry.

I think it pretty much does. The whole reason for giving the OS is that they were at an impasse and couldn't agree to a deal. If Holmgren was prepared to give more, or give just a little more, as you put it. Why didn't he do so, rather then force an OS on Nashville? I think it's pretty obvious that they couldn't come to a compromise between the two teams positions.
- MJL

Since neither of us were there we don't know that for a fact.

It could also be that Homer decided on the OS to give himself more flexibility in what he eventually wants to give up to get Weber, and to eliminate the other teams in the running.

Okay. We're on different levels then. Your basically saying they have money to match but dont have enough to keep him long term? I'm trying to understand. I get they have options but if money isn't an issue to this franchise then why will they have to explore other options when they have money to spend? So in reality if they are having doubts about finances down the road it makes no sense to match this offer sheet unless they want to pay Weber 26m and then trade him. At that point his value will decrease bc teams know he's being shopped. I could be wrong but this is just my opinion of course.
- stveshdy

No that's not what I'm basically saying at all. Nor did I say that money isn't an issue.

one last thing before I go, I see all this talk about how Nashville will cease to exist if they don't match. however I've counted 3 Predator fans commenting on this very issue between this thread, the predators, and Eks. From what I see Poile and co will have a harder time selling this to Leafs, Rags and Penguin fans.

I'm sure in the grand scheme of things they can pay that sum. However what are the ramifications. I can't see how this doesn't devastate them if they match. Four first round picks are nothing to scoff at either. Look at the players the Flyers have drafted with these late first rounders. If Nash can pick up those kinds of players with those picks they become a pretty competitive team in 5 years. Also they could turn around and trade a couple back to either us or another team and get some damn good players, while remaining competitive, and keeping the check book re-order form dry.
- JoeRussomanno

The only thing to consider is the opportunity cost of lost revenue over that 5 year rebuilding span. That's why sports teams never want to use the term rebuild. The dilemma is...with a few really good, sellable prospects do I only fall 10 or 15% in revenue if I lose Weber. Or do I drop by 30 or 40% if I just take the picks.

Since neither of us were there we don't know that for a fact.

It could also be that Homer decided on the OS to give himself more flexibility in what he eventually wants to give up to get Weber, and to eliminate the other teams in the running.
- FlyerGuy

You don't have to be there to know that. Eliminating other teams is definitely one of the reasons. But if an agreeable deal was possible with Holmgren giving a little more, it would have been done already. Did you read the reports of multiple deadlines coming and going for Nashville to decide? What that means is that Holmgren upped his offer multiple times, and still wasn't able to consumate a deal. Hence the Offer Sheet.

I'm sure in the grand scheme of things they can pay that sum. However what are the ramifications. I can't see how this doesn't devastate them if they match. Four first round picks are nothing to scoff at either. Look at the players the Flyers have drafted with these late first rounders. If Nash can pick up those kinds of players with those picks they become a pretty competitive team in 5 years. Also they could turn around and trade a couple back to either us or another team and get some damn good players, while remaining competitive, and keeping the check book re-order form dry.
- JoeRussomanno

I agree. I can't grasp the concept that they have money to match but don't know down the road. They have money but they don't. So which is it? That's what I'm trying to understand what he's saying. It's like a contradiction and basically covering oneself in both situations.

If we give vorachek and read like ek is speculating, even if we sign doan, we need more scoring.

I agree. I can't grasp the concept that they have money to match but don't know down the road. They have money but they don't. So which is it? That's what I'm trying to understand what he's saying. It's like a contradiction and basically covering oneself in both situations.
- stveshdy

If your referring to me, I've offered zero contradictions.

You don't have to be there to know that. Eliminating other teams is definitely one of the reasons. But if an agreeable deal was possible with Holmgren giving a little more, it would have been done already. Did you read the reports of multiple deadlines coming and going for Nashville to decide? What that means is that Holmgren upped his offer multiple times, and still wasn't able to consumate a deal. Hence the Offer Sheet.
- MJL

It doesn't mean that at all. It could also mean that Homer was pressing Polie for a decision on the Flyers offer, and Polie was simply delaying things as he talked to other teams.

You're assuming that the best offer Homer made before the OS will also be his best offer now. That's simply not a given. Homer may very well sweeten the offer now to get the Preds to not match.

Negotiating approaches change all the time.

one last thing before I go, I see all this talk about how Nashville will cease to exist if they don't match. however I've counted 3 Predator fans commenting on this very issue between this thread, the predators, and Eks. From what I see Poile and co will have a harder time selling this to Leafs, Rags and Penguin fans.
- JoeRussomanno

The demise of the Predators is the consensus of the media castrati only. Anyone giving it more than a superficial analysis would see that that might not necessarily be the case.

It doesn't mean that at all. It could also mean that Homer was pressing Polie for a decision on the Flyers offer, and Polie was simply delaying things as he talked to other teams.

You're assuming that the best offer Homer made before the OS will also be his best offer now. That's simply not a given. Homer may very well sweeten the offer now to get the Preds to not match.

Negotiating approaches change all the time.
- FlyerGuy

Yes it does mean that. Holmgren was in negotiations all day before giving the Offer Sheet to Weber. Even telling Nashville he was going to do so, before doing so. If Holmgren was willing to better his offer, he would have done so, before sending out the OS. Sure other teams were involved. Holmgren has a final offer and a limit to what he is prepared to pay for Weber. You reach that point before sending out an OS.

The demise of the Predators is the consensus of the media castrati only. Anyone giving it more than a superficial analysis would see that that might not necessarily be the case.
- 2731color

Absolutely. As if the moving vans are going to come in the middle of the night and foreclose on the furniture in the offices if Nashville matches the offer.

The only thing to consider is the opportunity cost of lost revenue over that 5 year rebuilding span. That's why sports teams never want to use the term rebuild. The dilemma is...with a few really good, sellable prospects do I only fall 10 or 15% in revenue if I lose Weber. Or do I drop by 30 or 40% if I just take the picks.
- TheGreat28

I think you guys are overblowing how big of a hit it will be if they lose Weber. Do they really care about this that bad in Nashville? If the roles were reversed I personally would want the Flyers to not match and take the picks. You can flip two of them for pretty good players, then in two years you have four first round picks! They could be a powerhouse of a team in 5 years with a low payroll. That is the formula for a small market team to compete in any sport. Let's not forget they have one of the best goalies in the league locked up too. A good goalie like Rinne can make any team tough to beat. It's not the end all for them to lose Weber. Matching that OS could be.

I think you guys are overblowing how big of a hit it will be if they lose Weber. Do they really care about this that bad in Nashville? If the roles were reversed I personally would want the Flyers to not match and take the picks. You can flip two of them for pretty good players, then in two years you have four first round picks! They could be a powerhouse of a team in 5 years with a low payroll. That is the formula for a small market team to compete in any sport. Let's not forget they have one of the best goalies in the league locked up too. A good goalie like Rinne can make any team tough to beat. It's not the end all for them to lose Weber. Matching that OS could be.
- JoeRussomanno

Since neither of us were there we don't know that for a fact.

It could also be that Homer decided on the OS to give himself more flexibility in what he eventually wants to give up to get Weber, and to eliminate the other teams in the running.
- FlyerGuy

It's been reported by almost every journalist with an ounce of credibility that it was in fact the case.

I'm sure in the grand scheme of things they can pay that sum. However what are the ramifications. I can't see how this doesn't devastate them if they match. Four first round picks are nothing to scoff at either. Look at the players the Flyers have drafted with these late first rounders. If Nash can pick up those kinds of players with those picks they become a pretty competitive team in 5 years. Also they could turn around and trade a couple back to either us or another team and get some damn good players, while remaining competitive, and keeping the check book re-order form dry.
- JoeRussomanno

The problem is that their fanbase needs them to be more then competitive to grow. That 5 years of waiting could be far more devastating to them financially then matching the offer to Weber is.

The problem is that their fanbase needs them to be more then competitive to grow. That 5 years of waiting could be far more devastating to them financially then matching the offer to Weber is.
- MJL

They aren't going to be more competitive with Weber this year than last year even if he stays. If they take those picks like I'm saying and flip them for players they can hit the ground running while not overextending their expenses.

If they could match hey would have done it by now.They are still looking at avenues to finance this contract. The longer they take the bleaker it looks for them...no one seems to notice that after next season they have 12 rfa\ufa. Can't have 33 mill spent in in year on two guys and then give raises/ sign there rfa ufa....good luck finding financing in a week.

They aren't going to be more competitive with Weber this year than last year even if he stays. If they take those picks like I'm saying and flip them for players they can hit the ground running while not overextending their expenses.
- JoeRussomanno

They would have to get some pretty good players with those picks to keep the status quo while also losing Suter and Weber.

They would have to get some pretty good players with those picks to keep the status quo while also losing Suter and Weber.
- MJL

No doubt, but first round picks can usually get you pretty good players, do they not?

No doubt, but first round picks can usually get you pretty good players, do they not?
- JoeRussomanno

Sometimes, but in the middle of July?

Sometimes, but in the middle of July?
- MJL

can't be sure but I would be willing to say there's teams out there willing to shed salary in lieu of a first round pick somewhere.

Edit if anything we've been talking about trading two of our players to them, for two of those picks back. Why wouldn't another team be willing to get picks like that?

If nashvilles matches it destroys their team... Of course they can match, but they'll suck and then sink their franchise