mcdonaghs already on the rangers
- rangerdanger94

yea and we have coburn...

Dustin Leed ‏@D_LEED

No Gervais. RT @DownGoesSpezza: Not to...alarm...anyone, but Ben Holmstrom has been given #12 by the Flyers... http://flyers.nhl.com/club/roster.htm





Dun Dun DUN!

- aosplayo

isn't that just because they gave luke schenn his number?

isn't that just because they gave luke schenn his number?
- FlyerMike18

yes

mcdonaghs already on the rangers
- rangerdanger94

Not only does Eric Karlsson repeat as the Norris winner, he wins the scoring championship and is named MVP.

Not only does Eric Karlsson repeat as the Norris winner, he wins the scoring championship and is named MVP.
- spatso

who cares

if they were gonna match they would have already and weber wants to play here why would you sign a guy back that dont want to be there
- griouxmvp2012

teams always wait until the deadline even if they make their decision early on.

yea and we have coburn...
- JoeRussomanno

but seriously rangers could obviously use weber but it's not a major need for us. we have great defense and goaltending but weak scoring so it's best if we use those picks/cap space on a forward (like nash).

for you guys, defense was a huge hole especially with prongers situation and bryz's inconsistency so it's a huge move for you guys.

what are you guys going to do if they match and won't trade him over?

Boy if the Flyers get Weber not only would they be stacked on the blueline BUT besides Timonen all of them are relatively big moving defensemen. Weber, Coburn, Meszaros, Grossman and Schenn.

teams always wait until the deadline even if they make their decision early on.


but seriously rangers could obviously use weber but it's not a major need for us. we have great defense and goaltending but weak scoring so it's best if we use those picks/cap space on a forward (like nash).

for you guys, defense was a huge hole especially with prongers situation and bryz's inconsistency so it's a huge move for you guys.

what are you guys going to do if they match and won't trade him over?
- rangerdanger94

Continue to develop the younger players and proceed as business as usual. If it becomes evident the younger players aren't up to task, a deadline trade isn't out of the possible.

Continue to develop the younger players and proceed as business as usual. If it becomes evident the younger players aren't up to task, a deadline trade isn't out of the possible.
- JoeRussomanno

The Flyers will march on with or without Weber.

My wife says the same thing when we go to a restaurant and wait 45 mins to get a table.

Here's a joke that will help you understand accountancy.

A CEO was looking for a right hand man. So he interviews an engineered, a lawyer, and an accountant, and asks each of them one question - what is 2 + 2?

The engineer whips out his calculator and answers 4 with a statical error of .00004 to the square root of pie.

The lawyer answers, in the case of the people vs. Banner it was proven to be 4.

The accountant walks over, closes the door, and answers...what do you want it to be?

He got the job.
- TheGreat28

Outstanding! Flyer fans want to believe the numbers pose a problem for Nashville ownership. Nashville ownership wants a solution. It will not be a problem to the accountants to make the numbers work.

The deal gets done if Poile has a better hockey solution in the the trade.

The Flyers will march on with or without Weber.
- stveshdy

Not gonna lie I would rather they don't

People keep saying that the financial part is not the problem as they need to reach the cap floor. The cap floor is going to play absolutely ZERO role in this decision. Here's why:

Nashville signs: Player A to a 4MM contract. Player B to 3MM contract. Player C to a 5MM contract. Player D to a 3MM contract. Nashville reaches cap floor and has paid out a total of 15MM

Nashville signs: Player A to a 4MM contract. Player B to a 3MM contract. Shea Weber to a 7.9MM contract. Nashville pays out 28MM just to reach cap floor and then factor in less than a year later they pay another 13MM. To just theoretical reach the cap floor in one year Nashville pays out 28- 41MM in this scenario depending on how you look at it.

Why would a small market team with questionable finances spend 41 million dollars as opposed to 15 million to reach the cap floor in 1 year? Furthermore, knowing the commitment that you now owe for Shea Weber and Pekka Rinne is it possible to put a serviceable team on the ice around them when you are committing 81% of your ticket revenue to two players and you have 9 (I believe) UFA/RFA's next season?

Factor in something else. As Dreger pointed out, when Nashville got wind of the offer sheet they spent their entire day Wednesday trying trade Weber. Does that sound like a team confident they could "match any offer?" Sounds like they were bluffing.

So while like some have said, Nashville has to match, they are right. In terms of hockey operations they have to match. But in terms of ownership if they can't put a serviceable team on the ice because they have no money to pay other players and the team starts losing are the fans going to continue to show up? They have some talented young players on their team and they did show Rinne the money. Nashville gambled and they lost. They walk away from this, have 8 1st round picks over the next few years and continue to have a franchise in which they build around Rinne and cry publicly that the Weber contract circumvented the CBA to try and ease the rage their fans are feeling. Attempt to make the Flyers look like the bad guy.

In conclusion the Flyers will not be offering them Couterier or either Schenn. Nashville will only be receiving players if the Flyers think they can truly acquire Doan. And Nashville's ownership will decide to keep the team intact becuase if they match this they won't have a hockey team in Tennessee in the near future. And here is why: Is billionaire Tom Wilson going to front his money for a team that will incur even bigger losses for the next 6 years due to Weber and Rinne being there, but also nothing other bargain basement players? Especially as a 12% owner. He has no majority stake in this team. He has an opinion, but it's not a decision making opinion. Why would he throw out all his money if his say isn't the final say? And by chance he did get a majority stake, would he keep a team in Nashville that is losing money? Did he become a billionaire by hemorrhaging cash? That team will be moved somewhere it can succeed and hence why majority ownership will do everything in their power to keep the team, unless of course they pay 81% of ticket revenue (in a great year for them and not including if there is a lockout) on two players. And that my friends is why Nashville is trying to wait the Flyers out, hoping they will get nervous and make the call offering some players.

Outstanding! Flyer fans want to believe the numbers pose a problem for Nashville ownership. Nashville ownership wants a solution. It will not be a problem to the accountants to make the numbers work.

The deal gets done if Poile has a better hockey solution in the the trade.
- spatso

It's not about wanting to believe or not, if it wasn;t a problem, they would have done it already. Why else is Nashville at this stage? Because they feel like being at the center of controversy?

I agree entirely with this assessment. There is no short term problem. If they match it becomes a simple problem of bridge financing and capitalization. The real problem is the long term vision for the team you put on the ice. If Poile can be convinced that dealing Weber is his best option he does a deal. If not, he matches. Remember this is a team that set itself up to resign Suter and Weber, they also put an offer in on Parise. They planned on being a cap team. Because of the cap minimum requirement every team (including an insolvent NJ Devils) could and would take on the Weber contract.
- spatso

I don't see taking on debt to meet payroll or re-capitalizing as a simple problem for any company, let alone a small market NHL franchise. Without a complete picture of their financial stability, nobody can say how easy or hard it is for them to match financially. Just because they have a net loss doesn't mean they are financially strapped (I would guess they have high non-cash expenses driving that number) but committing a large percentage of the team's net worth to one player is pretty steep.

With that being said, I hope we get the chance to see Weber in the O&B!

My wife says the same thing when we go to a restaurant and wait 45 mins to get a table.

Here's a joke that will help you understand accountancy.

A CEO was looking for a right hand man. So he interviews an engineered, a lawyer, and an accountant, and asks each of them one question - what is 2 + 2?

The engineer whips out his calculator and answers 4 with a statical error of .00004 to the square root of pie.

The lawyer answers, in the case of the people vs. Banner it was proven to be 4.

The accountant walks over, closes the door, and answers...what do you want it to be?

He got the job.
- TheGreat28

I'm not an accountant, nor am I a financial expert. But I'm not naive to not realize that the books can be made to look like something they aren't. And that a profit can be made to look like a loss. I just see the nonsense my accountant does when he does my taxes.

he doesn't have Voracek under contract because he's trying to get weber. All he has to do is submit a qualifying offer.
- JoeRussomanno

Submitting a Qualifying Offer doesn't get a player signed Joe. Voracek was given a Qualifying Offer weeks ago.

People keep saying that the financial part is not the problem as they need to reach the cap floor. The cap floor is going to play absolutely ZERO role in this decision. Here's why:

Nashville signs: Player A to a 4MM contract. Player B to 3MM contract. Player C to a 5MM contract. Player D to a 3MM contract. Nashville reaches cap floor and has paid out a total of 15MM

Nashville signs: Player A to a 4MM contract. Player B to a 3MM contract. Shea Weber to a 7.9MM contract. Nashville pays out 28MM just to reach cap floor and then factor in less than a year later they pay another 13MM. To just theoretical reach the cap floor in one year Nashville pays out 28- 41MM in this scenario depending on how you look at it.
If the Preds knew they weren't going to match then they probably should have traded him while they had an array of offers to choose from. Makes me think they will match.
Why would a small market team with questionable finances spend 41 million dollars as opposed to 15 million to reach the cap floor in 1 year? Furthermore, knowing the commitment that you now owe for Shea Weber and Pekka Rinne is it possible to put a serviceable team on the ice around them when you are committing 81% of your ticket revenue to two players and you have 9 (I believe) UFA/RFA's next season?

Factor in something else. As Dreger pointed out, when Nashville got wind of the offer sheet they spent their entire day Wednesday trying trade Weber. Does that sound like a team confident they could "match any offer?" Sounds like they were bluffing.

So while like some have said, Nashville has to match, they are right. In terms of hockey operations they have to match. But in terms of ownership if they can't put a serviceable team on the ice because they have no money to pay other players and the team starts losing are the fans going to continue to show up? They have some talented young players on their team and they did show Rinne the money. Nashville gambled and they lost. They walk away from this, have 8 1st round picks over the next few years and continue to have a franchise in which they build around Rinne and cry publicly that the Weber contract circumvented the CBA to try and ease the rage their fans are feeling. Attempt to make the Flyers look like the bad guy.

In conclusion the Flyers will not be offering them Couterier or either Schenn. Nashville will only be receiving players if the Flyers think they can truly acquire Doan. And Nashville's ownership will decide to keep the team intact becuase if they match this they won't have a hockey team in Tennessee in the near future. And here is why: Is billionaire Tom Wilson going to front his money for a team that will incur even bigger losses for the next 6 years due to Weber and Rinne being there, but also nothing other bargain basement players? Especially as a 12% owner. He has no majority stake in this team. He has an opinion, but it's not a decision making opinion. Why would he throw out all his money if his say isn't the final say? And by chance he did get a majority stake, would he keep a team in Nashville that is losing money? Did he become a billionaire by hemorrhaging cash? That team will be moved somewhere it can succeed and hence why majority ownership will do everything in their power to keep the team, unless of course they pay 81% of ticket revenue (in a great year for them and not including if there is a lockout) on two players. And that my friends is why Nashville is trying to wait the Flyers out, hoping they will get nervous and make the call offering some players.
- Flyers1218

if he's signed he could be traded in this transaction, he stays an RFA until after
- puckhead17

He could be traded without being signed.

Submitting a Qualifying Offer doesn't get a player signed Joe. Voracek was given a Qualifying Offer weeks ago.
- MJL

yea but what is he gonna do? sit-out? I'm sure if nothing else he'll take the Qo and play. Otherwise he'll be either traded or signed.

Why wouldn't we just give up the four first round draft picks? I dont understand why we'd want to unload all of this nhl talent to get them in return when they are in fact, unknowns? I know we would have to dump a player or two but I'm hearing names like Voracek, Mezs, Bourdon to only get like 1 or 2 draft picks back. NO WAY!

1- Re-sign Bourdon for like 900K and trade Andreas Lilja in a salary dump move.

2 - Dump Jody Shelley. No need to have him and Rinaldo. Actually, just no need to have him in general would suffice.

3- Give Voracek a 1 year, 750K raise to $3.0M. We will have more cap relief next year, hopefully if he proves to be underpaid.

4- Trade Meszaros to Nashville. This is tough but we are getting arguably the best d-man in the league and have alot tied up at the blue-line so provide a little relief here by trading him to Nashville for a draft pick. (probably couldn't get a first back but maybe a 2nd?)

5- Sign Jason Arnott to a 1 year, 1.8M deal to be a bottom 6 forward, good veteran guy.

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Jakub Voracek ($3.000m)

Brayden Schenn ($3.110m) / Danny Briere ($6.500m) / Wayne Simmonds ($1.750m)

Maxime Talbot ($1.750m) / Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Matt Read ($0.900m)

Ruslan Fedotenko ($1.750m) / Jason Arnott ($1.800m) / Eric Wellwood ($0.580m)

Zac Rinaldo ($0.544m) /

DEFENSEMEN
Braydon Coburn ($4.500m) / Shea Weber ($7.900m)

Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Nicklas Grossmann ($3.500m)

Luke Schenn ($3.600m) / Marc-Andre Bourdon ($0.900m)

Bruno Gervais ($0.825m) /
Chris Pronger ($4.921m) /

GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.667m)
Michael Leighton ($0.900m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $70,155,873; BONUSES: $2,705,000
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $44,127


Once the season starts, put Pronger on LITR. This would give them almost $5M of cap room to call up guys like Gus,Harry Z, etc. If this team isn't working by the trade deadline, then we have the flexibility to maybe acquire a "Bobby Ryan" or another piece. Also, if Semin isn't signed by the start of the season, that is another possibility, but I like our top 6 to start the season..

can you imagine Hamels pitching in his hometown park?
- vejim

San Diego? cause he's not from LA I don't thnk.

Why wouldn't we just give up the four first round draft picks? I dont understand why we'd want to unload all of this nhl talent to get them in return when they are in fact, unknowns? I know we would have to dump a player or two but I'm hearing names like Voracek, Mezs, Bourdon to only get like 1 or 2 draft picks back. NO WAY!


Once the season starts, put Pronger on LITR. This would give them almost $5M of cap room to call up guys like Gus,Harry Z, etc. If this team isn't working by the trade deadline, then we have the flexibility to maybe acquire a "Bobby Ryan" or another piece. Also, if Semin isn't signed by the start of the season, that is another possibility, but I like our top 6 to start the season..
- badabingnrt

It's not that we are just giving up 4 first rounders it's to entice Nashville to not match and or ease some of the pain in them losing Weber which would in return alleviate the Flyers own cap-woes. In the end boths sides would be ultimately happy.

People keep saying that the financial part is not the problem as they need to reach the cap floor. The cap floor is going to play absolutely ZERO role in this decision. Here's why:

Nashville signs: Player A to a 4MM contract. Player B to 3MM contract. Player C to a 5MM contract. Player D to a 3MM contract. Nashville reaches cap floor and has paid out a total of 15MM

Nashville signs: Player A to a 4MM contract. Player B to a 3MM contract. Shea Weber to a 7.9MM contract. Nashville pays out 28MM just to reach cap floor and then factor in less than a year later they pay another 13MM. To just theoretical reach the cap floor in one year Nashville pays out 28- 41MM in this scenario depending on how you look at it.

Why would a small market team with questionable finances spend 41 million dollars as opposed to 15 million to reach the cap floor in 1 year? Furthermore, knowing the commitment that you now owe for Shea Weber and Pekka Rinne is it possible to put a serviceable team on the ice around them when you are committing 81% of your ticket revenue to two players and you have 9 (I believe) UFA/RFA's next season?

Factor in something else. As Dreger pointed out, when Nashville got wind of the offer sheet they spent their entire day Wednesday trying trade Weber. Does that sound like a team confident they could "match any offer?" Sounds like they were bluffing.

So while like some have said, Nashville has to match, they are right. In terms of hockey operations they have to match. But in terms of ownership if they can't put a serviceable team on the ice because they have no money to pay other players and the team starts losing are the fans going to continue to show up? They have some talented young players on their team and they did show Rinne the money. Nashville gambled and they lost. They walk away from this, have 8 1st round picks over the next few years and continue to have a franchise in which they build around Rinne and cry publicly that the Weber contract circumvented the CBA to try and ease the rage their fans are feeling. Attempt to make the Flyers look like the bad guy.

In conclusion the Flyers will not be offering them Couterier or either Schenn. Nashville will only be receiving players if the Flyers think they can truly acquire Doan. And Nashville's ownership will decide to keep the team intact becuase if they match this they won't have a hockey team in Tennessee in the near future. And here is why: Is billionaire Tom Wilson going to front his money for a team that will incur even bigger losses for the next 6 years due to Weber and Rinne being there, but also nothing other bargain basement players? Especially as a 12% owner. He has no majority stake in this team. He has an opinion, but it's not a decision making opinion. Why would he throw out all his money if his say isn't the final say? And by chance he did get a majority stake, would he keep a team in Nashville that is losing money? Did he become a billionaire by hemorrhaging cash? That team will be moved somewhere it can succeed and hence why majority ownership will do everything in their power to keep the team, unless of course they pay 81% of ticket revenue (in a great year for them and not including if there is a lockout) on two players. And that my friends is why Nashville is trying to wait the Flyers out, hoping they will get nervous and make the call offering some players.
- Flyers1218

I thought it was spending the day in trade talks, then due to Holmgren's frustration, then came the Offer Sheet. Just because Nashville was listening to trade offers, doesn't mean they can't match.
And whether or not Nashville receives players from the Flyers, has nothing to do with Doan.
Everyone wants to assume that the losses will be bigger by keeping Weber, then not keeping him. Nobody knows that to be the case.
Billionaires become billionaires by investing and taking risks. The real money in Pro Sports is in increasing the value of the franchise. Not in yearly income.

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Waiting Game for Voracek and Bourdon
- bmeltzer

Any idea if either side would want a multi year contract?

yea but what is he gonna do? sit-out? I'm sure if nothing else he'll take the Qo and play. Otherwise he'll be either traded or signed.
- JoeRussomanno

He's not going to sit out. Voracek will be signed. Either by the Flyers or someone else.