To me this is like the 'chicken and the egg' of the hockey world.
Does defense make the goaltender? Or does the goaltender make the defense? How do you figure out which is the true muscle and backbone?
We have had numerous examples in recent years of each case, where a defense made a goalie look better than he was and vice versa. As usual though, you hear the descriptions tossed around when they don't exactly apply. The Kings very own Jonathan Quick is a goaltender who has been said to benefit from a very cushy defensive system. Now, with a decimated Rangers blue line you are starting to hear people say the same thing about Henrik Lundqvist. Maybe these are just "system" goaltenders.
Which, to be fair to the critics, we have had a multitude of goaltenders greatly benefit from systems. Mike Smith is a prime example of a goaltender who went to a defense oriented system in Phoenix, had a few good years under it but is now returning to earth. Anders Lindback is another example of a goalie who looked very good in his limited role with a tight defensive squad in Nashville, but could barely stop a beachball when he was asked to stand up to the test in the wide open Tampa Bay system.
Obviously these two groups, defense and goaltending, are intertwined. Good goalies can be stuck on bad defensive teams and struggle but only when they get outside that team do they flourish. Then you have a situation like Ryan Miller, where he went from Buffalo to St. Louis, a defensive upgrade, and looked flat out awful.
The position of goaltending is really dependent on a lot of factors and it can be a little troublesome to pinpoint where the dividing line between a good goaltender and a good defense making a good goaltender can be drawn.
I turned to friend of the blog and Mayor's Manor writer Andy Tonge, a long time goaltender himself, to give me a little insight.
Q: First off, tell us a little bit about yourself and your goaltending background
Well, I started playing ice hockey when I was five years old. Two years later, I switched from a defenseman to a goalie. After just one season, I was asked to be the starting goalie for a tier team, the highest level you can play during youth hockey. I spent the next decade or so traveling the country for tournaments, as well as going to Whistler and Calgary for tournaments. I've been trained by former NHLers, as well as the best goalie coach in Northern California, Jay Hard.
Q: And how old are you now?
22
Q: I think Kings fans have heard people talk about Quick only being good because of the Kings defense, and we are starting to hear that about guys like Lundqvist and Mike Smith as well. Is there any truth to the notion that the defense makes the goaltender?
First off, one of these names does not fit with the others. Quick and Lundqvist are elite goaltenders, while Smith has been historically a below average starter, with a few anomaly years of pretty solid play between the pipes. Now, can defense actually make a goaltender? No. Can it help a goaltender? Absolutely.
Q: Do goaltending styles and systems have to mesh? How important is that? (Thinking NYR blocking a ton of shots, Kings allowing Quick to see a lot of shots)
Not necessarily, no. Again, it is a huge benefit if it does though. In my playing days, I always wanted to see the shot coming. Seeing the release of the shot is a huge aspect of goaltending and after years of playing the position, you can tell the velocity and trajectory of the puck immediately after it comes off the player's stick.
An example of where this does become an issue is if you have a Francois Allaire goalie - one that is trained to block shots and just get their body in front of it - paired with a defense that play a perimeter defense. If you're going to ask your goalie to simply block shots, you're going to need a defense that will collapse in front of the net and clear away rebounds or block out opposing players.
I want to briefly go back to the previous question here. Quick is a goalie I feel would actually still do well in a system that doesn't allow him to see as many shots. What is his best attribute? His insane athletic ability. His reactions are so quick and he moves so well that he could still do well in other systems. LA's system helps Quick mostly because their defense is simply tremendous, lead by the best defenseman in the NHL, Drew Doughty.
Q: How much would you say shot quantities matter? Does it help you get into a groove when you see more shots in a game?
Unequivocally, yes. In fact, you could ask this to most pro goalies and they'd say the same thing. When you're in a game where you face 14 shots total, you feel disconnected from the game. It's almost as if you're an observer. I would say though that it isn't necessarily quantity that is nearly as important as the frequency of which you face shots. You can face 25 shots in a game, but 17 may come in one period. Those other two periods, you're not going to be in a rhythm and may fight the puck. Going from long periods of inactivity to being battered with pucks causes a lot of problems.
Q: Is there any one consistent message that defensive coaches tell their players when it comes to working with goaltenders?
Mostly, if there is a message, it is for the defenders to allow the goalie to see the shot coming and clear traffic in front of the net. Otherwise, the communication tends to be between the goaltender and the defenseman. I've always felt that communication is key between a goalie and defenders, and that may be another thing coaches tell the two to work on. For example, I would be very vocal when I was being screened by a teammate or if a defender was being pressured when he had the puck in our own zone. You hear about communication breakdowns a lot, but most never associate goalies as being part of that equation. Having a constant and clear line of communication helps immensely in the defensive zone.
Q: Where can my readers read your stuff at?
You can find my work at
MayorsManor.com or just use
http://bit.ly/ManchVegas to directly view my articles. I cover nearly every Manchester Monarchs home game and write a recap with highlights, analysis, and quotes from the players. On top of that, I publish plenty of exclusive interviews with LA Kings prospects and executives throughout the year. You can also follow me on Twitter
@AndyTonge1 . I tweet breaking call-ups, injury news, and Star Wars.
Big thanks to Andy for taking the time to answer my questions.
As you can see, the two positions are closely related and definitely work off each other but are still independent enough to stand alone. After taking in his answers it also shed maybe a little light to be on the current season that Jonathan Quick is having.
Quick is having an outstanding season. His .943 save percentage is currently third in the NHL behind Craig Anderson of Ottawa and Freddy Andersen of Anaheim. His goals against which sits at 1.86 is 4th best overall. He has also faced the second most shots in the league.
The Kings have been uncharacteristic in many aspects of their defensive game this season so far. They have possessed the puck far less than previous years and have allowed a ton more shots. However, for a goaltender like Jonathan Quick this might not be a bad thing. Also consider the idea of allowing Quick to see shots, which the Kings do quite well. The team doesn't block very many shots at all, which can lend to this.
Here are the Kings total shots allowed per 60 at 5v5 since 2010-11 along with their corsi for over 60.
2010-11: SA60 -
27.6 / CA60 -
51.8
2011-12: SA60 -
26.1 / CA60 -
49.2
2012-13: SA60 -
24.4 / CA60 -
44.3
2013-14: SA60 -
25.0 / CA60 -
46.6
2014-15 (so far): SA60 -
31.7 / CA60 -
54.7
Now match that up with Jonathan Quick's even strength save percentages.
2010-11: .925
2011-12: .934 (Vezina finalist)
2012-13: .907
2013-14: .927
2014-15: .928
It's far from conclusive, but these are fun and interesting stats to chew on and theorize about. Specifically the idea that getting your goaltender in a groove can be helpful. 2012-13 the Kings allowed so few shots, barely 24 a night at evens. Quick also had his worst statistical year on record. Conversely, he is having a monstrous year this year while seeing the most shots a night in his career on average. The difference between 31 and 24 shouldn't seem that vast, but if it means getting your goalie a steady intake of shots to get into the game with than it might be very helpful.
To reiterate what Andy stated, can defense actually make a goaltender? No. Can it help? Absolutely.
Good goaltenders tend to stay consistent throughout. Quick has stayed fairly consistent despite a down year in 2012-13 which could be attributed to various things, including injury. Lundqvist has likewise been in the .930 Even strength save percentage category almost every year for the past 5 years. Carey Price, Pekka Rinne, Ryan Miller and even the polarizing Roberto Luongo have all stayed very consistent in their even strength save percentages over the last five years with different defenses and quality in front of them. You can't say the same for guys like Ilya Bryzgalov, Anders Lindback, Steve Mason, Mike Smith, or Marc-Andre Fleury, all of which have had numbers that fluctuate rather heavily from year to year. Point being, if you have an "elite goaltender" don't worry because most the time they're going to be elite regardless of the team in front of them.
There is definitely a balance between the quality of defense and the quality of goaltending, but are they mutually exclusive? I don't think so. In the long run a good defense may help a goaltender have one good year, but it won't keep them consistent year after year. Goalies do that themselves. Doesn't that make you appreciate what guys like Lundqvist, Quick, Rinne, and Price do year after year? It certainly does for me.
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