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Forums :: Blog World :: Paul McCann: Does the Weber Offer Sheet violate the "sprit and intent" of the CBA?
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schiefer466
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Rochester, NY
Joined: 03.04.2007

Jul 20 @ 3:05 PM ET
anyone not associated with nashville will agree with that. its obvious he wants no part in staying there. if he did, when he got the offer sheet from the flyers, he would have gone to poile and said hey, im about to sign this. match it or get close and ill sign yours and we won't need to worry about anything. he didn't do that apparently...says a lot.
- flyershockey


That logic seems off. If he really didn't want to be in Nashville, why would he sign an offer sheet that could keep him in Nashville for 14 years? he'd demand a trade and at most take the 1 year deal as an RFA and bolt next year. If he wanted to be gone as bad as many claim, and with the promises to match any offer Poile has stated, I don't think he'd roll the dice with something that may keep him in town until he's 40. The Preds had the money to keep Suter, and also threw an offer at Parise. So clearly the ownership has the money to pay him.
Philly1980
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 12.30.2011

Jul 20 @ 3:06 PM ET
[quote=Philly1980]LOL how did that strategy work out with leino....

laugh all ya want. We'll see who's laughing when half the NHL put's in offers on your RFA's.

- sabrescupbound




LEINO [/img]
jak521
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Buckle Up.
Joined: 02.19.2008

Jul 20 @ 3:06 PM ET
No one knows what the new CBA is going to look like. The Flyers certainly haven't done the owner's position any favors. Yeah, there would likely be some sort of term restrictions but that just means he'd get around $45-50M for 5 years rather than $110M for 14. There would still be a ton of money out there for him.
- Jeffmt

Thats a huge difference on a cap hit (10 mil compared to 7.8) If the NHL really wanted to get this right they wouldnt have teams in Florida, Nashville, Columbus, three with in an hours drive (NYI,NYR,NJD)... You cant expect a team like Nashville to realistically compete with big market teams. Doesnt matter what rules are.
flyershockey
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: smh, NC
Joined: 07.09.2006

Jul 20 @ 3:07 PM ET
[quote=Philly1980]LOL how did that strategy work out with leino....

laugh all ya want. We'll see who's laughing when half the NHL put's in offers on your RFA's.

- sabrescupbound


just stop already, its not going to happen. our management doesnt dilly dally around. the player would also need to sign said offer sheet. so, flyers fans will still be laughing.
flyer186
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: niagara falls, ON
Joined: 02.05.2007

Jul 20 @ 3:07 PM ET
You are correct, but that's how it is now. And if the luxery tax is high the bottom feeders don't lose money. So it is without question a better system
- Bieksa#3

the problem is this... The Toronto maple leafs parent company is worth over 1 billion dollars ... so you hand them a 10 million dollar luxury tax... that's what they make in interest in about 3 days .. how does that help smaller teams smaller tems still wont be able to retain there super stars and will still lose them to clubs who have money to burn... the rangers are paying wade redden 6.5 million to play in the minors.. they didn't bat a eye... a luxury tax wont stop anything
Philly1980
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 12.30.2011

Jul 20 @ 3:07 PM ET
That logic seems off. If he really didn't want to be in Nashville, why would he sign an offer sheet that could keep him in Nashville for 14 years? he'd demand a trade and at most take the 1 year deal as an RFA and bolt next year. If he wanted to be gone as bad as many claim, and with the promises to match any offer Poile has stated, I don't think he'd roll the dice with something that may keep him in town until he's 40. The Preds had the money to keep Suter, and also threw an offer at Parise. So clearly the ownership has the money to pay him.
- schiefer466


last year to get a big money contract...no way he sees the term and length and amount after the next cba.
landros 2
Season Ticket Holder
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Centre of universe
Joined: 02.07.2007

Jul 20 @ 3:08 PM ET
don't forget Couturier

I foresee neither Giroux nor Couturier signing immediately to a contract when there time comes. I think Philly just opened the door to all teams to bid on there RFA's with no mercy and drive there price's through the roof.

- sabrescupbound



and why is that???
Philly1980
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 12.30.2011

Jul 20 @ 3:09 PM ET
the problem is this... The Toronto maple leafs parent company is worth over 1 billion dollars ... so you hand them a 10 million dollar luxury tax... that's what they make in interest in about 3 days .. how does that help smaller teams smaller tems still wont be able to retain there super stars and will still lose them to clubs who have money to burn... the rangers are paying wade redden 6.5 million to play in the minors.. they didn't bat a eye... a luxury tax wont stop anything
- flyer186


Like i said get rid of bettmans bastards....they dont work in the markets he put them in..
Jeffmt
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: ON
Joined: 10.11.2006

Jul 20 @ 3:10 PM ET
Thats a huge difference on a cap hit (10 mil compared to 7.8) If the NHL really wanted to get this right they wouldnt have teams in Florida, Nashville, Columbus, three with in an hours drive (NYI,NYR,NJD)... You cant expect a team like Nashville to realistically compete with big market teams. Doesnt matter what rules are.
- jak521


It sure is but if the new CBA limits length of contracts those are the type of cap hits we're going to start seeing more and more. Right now contracts are being structured to lower the hit based on either bogus years at the end of the contract, or a players willingness to take less money year to year for long term security. If contracts are restricted to, say, 5 years, there's no longer any incentive on the player end to take less money annually.
flyer186
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: niagara falls, ON
Joined: 02.05.2007

Jul 20 @ 3:11 PM ET
Like i said get rid of bettmans bastards....they dont work in the markets he put them in..
- Philly1980

and i agree if the team has trouble making the cap floor then they shouldn't be in the NHL if a team can't swim with the big dog and can't keep there players then its time to go
flyershockey
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: smh, NC
Joined: 07.09.2006

Jul 20 @ 3:12 PM ET
That logic seems off. If he really didn't want to be in Nashville, why would he sign an offer sheet that could keep him in Nashville for 14 years? he'd demand a trade and at most take the 1 year deal as an RFA and bolt next year. If he wanted to be gone as bad as many claim, and with the promises to match any offer Poile has stated, I don't think he'd roll the dice with something that may keep him in town until he's 40. The Preds had the money to keep Suter, and also threw an offer at Parise. So clearly the ownership has the money to pay him.
- schiefer466


i think theres a more in the background than we know. for one, dreger reported homer and poile talked at length, and deadlines were set. he also reported poile and preds management were aware of the offer sheet and that it was going to be signed. i could be way off but i dont think nashville is going to match. these 7 days are going to be for poile to try to save face and get what he can. add on top the comments from the agent, and its pretty clear where weber does and doesnt want to be. i think weber signed the offer sheet knowing full well it wouldnt be matched, even though that will never come out.
schiefer466
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Rochester, NY
Joined: 03.04.2007

Jul 20 @ 3:13 PM ET
Bettman is Diluting the product with all these poop teams...anyone ever hear about that...why should we support other teams...(frank) em.! Soon this will become the nba....hell it already has.
- Philly1980


Poop teams? They draft and develop players better than any other team in the league, except probably Detroit. Philly fans should know that. Your team is and has been littered with former Preds, not to mention the attempt to sign Hamhuis.

And why should teams like Philly help support other teams? Look at the NFL. More revenue sharing than any league, and it's a behemoth. Guys like Snider and Dolan, and on down the line know that what's best for the league and their franchises is a league with as many competitive and viable teams as possible. Do you think the owners would get the TV, and sponsorship revenue they currently do in a 10-12 team (7 in canada) league? Of course not.

Also, the revenue sharing requires teams to improve themselves or they get cut off. And these things are cyclical. There was a time when Colorado and Dallas were big spenders and teams like Pittsburgh, Buffalo, and Calgary were broke.
acmilano3
Location: lansdale, PA
Joined: 10.03.2007

Jul 20 @ 3:13 PM ET
It pushes Nashville against a financial wall but is Philadelphia supposed to feel bad about using the rules to their advantage to push around a financially weaker team?

You may not like it, but the offer sheet isn't against the rules and it was a smart move by Philly when trade talks were going nowhere. You aren't a GM in this league to make friends, you're a GM to improve your team and win a cup. Holmgren has shown that he has the stones to make big plays to improve his team now and in the future.

- Scruffton


That's exactly right.

Besides, Nashville signed the current CBA. They also gladly accept profit sharing from teams like the Flyers.

They had two alternatives prior to this offer sheet . Let the best d in the league walk in July or trade him at the deadline. Poile was scared to move Suter at the deadline this year. He low balled Weber in arbitration last year.

If you are a Nashville fan do you have the confidence in him this time around? I'm sure the reality of the situation stings a bit, but the Flyers did them a favor here.

The Flyers goal was to keep him away from the other powers in this conference and if lucky replace the concused Pronger. They cannot be blamed for trying to do either one. Also, the pressure in Phila is a tad different than Nashville. The only acceptable option is to go for the jugular.
jak521
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Buckle Up.
Joined: 02.19.2008

Jul 20 @ 3:14 PM ET
That logic seems off. If he really didn't want to be in Nashville, why would he sign an offer sheet that could keep him in Nashville for 14 years? he'd demand a trade and at most take the 1 year deal as an RFA and bolt next year. If he wanted to be gone as bad as many claim, and with the promises to match any offer Poile has stated, I don't think he'd roll the dice with something that may keep him in town until he's 40. The Preds had the money to keep Suter, and also threw an offer at Parise. So clearly the ownership has the money to pay him.
- schiefer466

I think its a bit of the in between. He would prefer to play in Philly, but wouldnt mind Nashville. Ultimately what he is saying is that he will play either place, but you gotta pay me. Simple as that.

Also, he did need to sign this summer if he wanted the big deal. Especially with the rumors that are swirling with the new cba.

When it comes to offering money to Suter and Parise.. thats all based on rumors. I did a quick break down on their financial capability in the Flyers blog. They cant give any money up front, and likely didnt offer a signing bonus to Suter (who wanted and got 20 mil from July 2012 and July 2013). They signed Rinne to a 7 year 49 mil deal.. he also got no signing bonus.

I understand that there is more to it than ticket sales, but if they were to match Weber's offer.. they would be looking at a 6 year salary payroll of 286 million dollars for the team (of that 106 would go to just Rinne and Weber and 30 mil a year to the rest of the team @ 6 years). Yet in ticket sales (26 mil last season WITH playoffs included) over 6 years you are looking at 156 million... How do they manage that 130 million difference? That is a $-21.6 million difference for a team who lost $7 million last year!
Philly1980
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 12.30.2011

Jul 20 @ 3:15 PM ET
Poop teams? They draft and develop players better than any other team in the league, except probably Detroit. Philly fans should know that. Your team is and has been littered with former Preds, not to mention the attempt to sign Hamhuis.

And why should teams like Philly help support other teams? Look at the NFL. More revenue sharing than any league, and it's a behemoth. Guys like Snider and Dolan, and on down the line know that what's best for the league and their franchises is a league with as many competitive and viable teams as possible. Do you think the owners would get the TV, and sponsorship revenue they currently do in a 10-12 team (7 in canada) league? Of course not.

Also, the revenue sharing requires teams to improve themselves or they get cut off. And these things are cyclical. There was a time when Colorado and Dallas were big spenders and teams like Pittsburgh, Buffalo, and Calgary were broke.

- schiefer466


Yeah and they still loose money...not my fault to support them.
sabrescupbound
Buffalo Sabres
Location: Mayville, NY
Joined: 06.22.2012

Jul 20 @ 3:15 PM ET
just stop already, its not going to happen. our management doesnt dilly dally around. the player would also need to sign said offer sheet. so, flyers fans will still be laughing.
- flyershockey



really? So your saying your players would rather just sign in Philly then wait so they can have there prices driven up? I can see teams like the Rangers, Pittsburgh, Boston, Chicago, and Detroit to name a few that would pay a nice chunk of change to have Giroux on there roster.
jak521
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Buckle Up.
Joined: 02.19.2008

Jul 20 @ 3:15 PM ET
It sure is but if the new CBA limits length of contracts those are the type of cap hits we're going to start seeing more and more. Right now contracts are being structured to lower the hit based on either bogus years at the end of the contract, or a players willingness to take less money year to year for long term security. If contracts are restricted to, say, 5 years, there's no longer any incentive on the player end to take less money annually.
- Jeffmt

That cant happen.. you cant have a decreased cap limit yet an increased cap hit. It will destroy the NHL, and I seriously doubt the players would agree to that.
Bieksa#3
Vancouver Canucks
Joined: 07.21.2009

Jul 20 @ 3:15 PM ET
the problem is this... The Toronto maple leafs parent company is worth over 1 billion dollars ... so you hand them a 10 million dollar luxury tax... that's what they make in interest in about 3 days .. how does that help smaller teams smaller tems still wont be able to retain there super stars and will still lose them to clubs who have money to burn... the rangers are paying wade redden 6.5 million to play in the minors.. they didn't bat a eye... a luxury tax wont stop anything
- flyer186

Think about it......lets say the league has 3 groups of franchises. 1) willing to go over the cap and spend an average of 12 mill over the cap. 2)teams that spend a healthy amount and make a little or break even. 3) the duds. Phx, Florida, Jackets etc. Those 10 teams are handed 12 mll a piece on a ere from the big boys going over the cap. The bottom teams wouldn't compete but they lose wayyyy less money. It really is common sense
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Jul 20 @ 3:17 PM ET
Bite a $27 mill bullet for 1 year of service and then trade him?
- LordStanley88


Wrong! It is $27m paid over one year for "two" years of service. The money is already in the Nashville budget. The total is less than what was anticipated as the payout for Suter and Weber. Poile is being very smart. He is freezing Holmgren. Let's see what Holmgren is ready to offer by next Tuesday afternoon. The best option for Poile is to do a good deal. The best option for Holmgren is to pay a fair price for Weber. He has one shot and he needs to make a very good offer to ensure it happens.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Jul 20 @ 3:17 PM ET
Dp
schiefer466
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Rochester, NY
Joined: 03.04.2007

Jul 20 @ 3:17 PM ET
i think theres a more in the background than we know. for one, dreger reported homer and poile talked at length, and deadlines were set. he also reported poile and preds management were aware of the offer sheet and that it was going to be signed. i could be way off but i dont think nashville is going to match. these 7 days are going to be for poile to try to save face and get what he can. add on top the comments from the agent, and its pretty clear where weber does and doesnt want to be. i think weber signed the offer sheet knowing full well it wouldnt be matched, even though that will never come out.
- flyershockey


While he would rather be in Philly, he still has to be at least ok with Nashville. If he is 100% against going back there then he wouldn't take that chance. He'd hold out longer and try and force a trade without signing an offer sheet. Not like it's early september and the clock is really ticking.
flyershockey
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: smh, NC
Joined: 07.09.2006

Jul 20 @ 3:17 PM ET
really? So your saying your players would rather just sign in Philly then wait so they can have there prices driven up? I can see teams like the Rangers, Pittsburgh, Boston, Chicago, and Detroit to name a few that would pay a nice chunk of change to have Giroux on there roster.
- sabrescupbound


the flyers would never let it get to that point with giroux, what don't you understand about that?
flyershockey
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: smh, NC
Joined: 07.09.2006

Jul 20 @ 3:18 PM ET
While he would rather be in Philly, he still has to be at least ok with Nashville. If he is 100% against going back there then he wouldn't take that chance. He'd hold out longer and try and force a trade without signing an offer sheet. Not like it's early september and the clock is really ticking.
- schiefer466


what I'm saying is i dont think he'd sign the offer sheet unless he knew the preds wouldnt match. i could be wrong but that is my take.
nurk
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: City of Champions, PA
Joined: 09.21.2006

Jul 20 @ 3:18 PM ET
Nashville needs to send an offer sheet to Claude Giroux in 2014-15...
- jochfr

theres the big difference between the flyers and the predators. giroux wont make it to rfa status.
Philly1980
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 12.30.2011

Jul 20 @ 3:19 PM ET
That's exactly right.

Besides, Nashville signed the current CBA. They also gladly accept profit sharing from teams like the Flyers.

They had two alternatives prior to this offer sheet . Let the best d in the league walk in July or trade him at the deadline. Poile was scared to move Suter at the deadline this year. He low balled Weber in arbitration last year.

If you are a Nashville fan do you have the confidence in him this time around? I'm sure the reality of the situation stings a bit, but the Flyers did them a favor here.

The Flyers goal was to keep him away from the other powers in this conference and if lucky replace the concused Pronger. They cannot be blamed for trying to do either one. Also, the pressure in Phila is a tad different than Nashville. The only acceptable option is to go for the jugular.

- acmilano3


Those bastards got half their got 30 Mill out of 75 mill from revenue sharing last year.....i dont feel bad for them what soever.
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