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Forums :: Blog World :: Paul McCann: Does the Weber Offer Sheet violate the "sprit and intent" of the CBA?
Author Message
Richieattack18
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Girouxsalem
Joined: 07.13.2010

Jul 20 @ 6:43 PM ET
I don't think so, but you'll have to ask Juice to know for sure. And again, you can't make players sign contracts!!! Why is everyone acting like we didn't try to sign them long term? We've been trying to sign them (or extend them) for the last two years. If they don't want to be here, they aren't going to sign no matter the term. They didn't sign, and now they're leaving just like they wanted.

EDIT: Maybe leaving, we're not done with Weber quite yet.

- Pelvis

You could have offered Weber way more before arbitration (4.8million). Also not comparing him to Yandle/Byfuglien would have been better for your sake.
Richieattack18
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Girouxsalem
Joined: 07.13.2010

Jul 20 @ 6:45 PM ET
Tend to agree with the author about circumvention and the leeway Bettman would have in this case. Specifically, this was not a UFA where all teams were fairly competing. It was an RFA where most teams were following an unwritten courtesy rule. In that light, the market was limited and Philly Japped them. Bettman is Lord of all owners. He could issue an executive order, just like other big shot Presidents do.
- TJ

It's a little late to start putting executive orders on deals like this. It is completely in the rules.
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Jul 20 @ 6:50 PM ET
Well the first thing is the article that the blogger references, is poorly done. I stopped reading it when it said they are paying Weber 27M in one year. The NHL calandar is not the same as the Jan-Dec calendar. The NHL Season runs from July 1 to June 30th. So the author misses the boat there.

On to the Circumvention issue. First of all I'm a Flyers fan. And as such I love this move. That being said, let me remove my Flyers hat for a second.

Is this deal legal under the CBA? Absolutely. And it doesn't legally circumvent the CBA. But does it violate the spirit of the CBA? Absolutely it does. Offer Sheets aren't the villian here. It's the misuse of them. An Offer Sheet wasn't designed for a big market team to steal a top player from a small market team, because they can't match up financially. It's like the big stack bullying the small stack at the poker table. Not how it's supposed to work. But as usual, the loopholes are found and used.
And the League has to be pissed about it. If there was any threat of a lockout, it just became more real. As the League will surely press harder for term limits and eliminate front loading of deals. Along with the players share and HRR formulas.

This deal is very good for the Flyers. It's very bad for the League, and certainly for Nashville. Who pretty much has to choose the method of execution. Do they want to hang, or death by firing squad. That is certainly not the spirit of the CBA.
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Jul 20 @ 6:50 PM ET
You could have offered Weber way more before arbitration (4.8million). Also not comparing him to Yandle/Byfuglien would have been better for your sake.
- Richieattack18


Anyone saying that, doesn't understand how Arbitration works.
TJ
New York Rangers
Location: PA
Joined: 11.27.2007

Jul 20 @ 6:57 PM ET
It's a little late to start putting executive orders on deals like this. It is completely in the rules.
- Richieattack18



I agree it was within the rules but that means nothing if the Commish takes another stance, for the welfare of the game. It is not beyond his power in a basically socialist society. The good of the whole supersedes. He can find a way to legally act if he chooses. The CBA negotiations complicates this and will have impact. Which way, I have no idea.
Gunslinger
Montreal Canadiens
Location: ID
Joined: 10.15.2011

Jul 20 @ 7:00 PM ET
Paul McCann: Does the Weber Offer Sheet violate the "sprit and intent" of the CBA?
- pmccann


I think this move, and the recent signings of Parise and Suter, both violate the spirit and intent of the CBA. On one hand you have teams like the Wild crying poor, then going out and blowing their brains out with two hefty long term deals. On the other hand you have the Flyers flexing their cash muscles with no regard to the cap and out spending the smaller market teams.

Richieattack18
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Girouxsalem
Joined: 07.13.2010

Jul 20 @ 7:00 PM ET
don't forget Couturier

I foresee neither Giroux nor Couturier signing immediately to a contract when there time comes. I think Philly just opened the door to all teams to bid on there RFA's with no mercy and drive there price's through the roof.

- sabrescupbound

I dont think Coots or Giroux want out of Philly plus they will be signed before it even gets to that point.
Gunslinger
Montreal Canadiens
Location: ID
Joined: 10.15.2011

Jul 20 @ 7:01 PM ET
I agree it was within the rules but that means nothing if the Commish takes another stance, for the welfare of the game. It is not beyond his power in a basically socialist society. The good of the whole supersedes. He can find a way to legally act if he chooses. The CBA negotiations complicates this and will have impact. Which way, I have no idea.
- TJ


Does anyone know how this is any different from the Kovalchuk deal the NHL at one time cock blocked?
Richieattack18
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Girouxsalem
Joined: 07.13.2010

Jul 20 @ 7:03 PM ET
Anyone saying that, doesn't understand how Arbitration works.
- MJL

? my point is that it doesn't go over well with a Norris Caliber player like Weber
TJ
New York Rangers
Location: PA
Joined: 11.27.2007

Jul 20 @ 7:03 PM ET
Does anyone know how this is any different from the Kovalchuk deal the NHL at one time cock blocked?
- Gunslinger



UFA vs RFA and offer sheets. Pretty significant difference.
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Jul 20 @ 7:05 PM ET
? my point is that it doesn't go over well with a Norris Caliber player like Weber
- Richieattack18


Arbitration wouldn't go over well with any player. The design of it is that a team gives it's reasons, which are negative in nature, as to how they came up with their pay figure. Arbitration is not a negotiation where the goal is to come up with an agreeable and fair number.
Gunslinger
Montreal Canadiens
Location: ID
Joined: 10.15.2011

Jul 20 @ 7:06 PM ET
UFA vs RFA and offer sheets. Pretty significant difference.
- TJ


A contract is a contract. No difference really.

Im talking about the contract, not the players status at the time it was signed.
TJ
New York Rangers
Location: PA
Joined: 11.27.2007

Jul 20 @ 7:09 PM ET
A contract is a contract. No difference really.

Im talking about the contract, not the players status at the time it was signed.

- Gunslinger



One contract is free market, the other requires predetermined compensation to one party. There is a difference. The previous owner has a claim, which the league has defined.
Richieattack18
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Girouxsalem
Joined: 07.13.2010

Jul 20 @ 7:18 PM ET
Arbitration wouldn't go over well with any player. The design of it is that a team gives it's reasons, which are negative in nature, as to how they came up with their pay figure. Arbitration is not a negotiation where the goal is to come up with an agreeable and fair number.
- MJL

I'm sorry but I'm not seeing where your argument is.. Nashvilles reasons to have a top defender in Weber be signed to a cheap contract were pathetic, which doesn't settle well with Weber? Agreed?
Gunslinger
Montreal Canadiens
Location: ID
Joined: 10.15.2011

Jul 20 @ 7:21 PM ET
One contract is free market, the other requires predetermined compensation to one party. There is a difference. The previous owner has a claim, which the league has defined.
- TJ


None of that explains why the Kovalchuk signing was negated. It only explains the difference the between RFA vs UFA. It was the contract the NHL had a problem when they voided the Kovalchuk signing, not his status as a UFA as opposed to RFA.

Since you're having troubling comprehending, ill dumb it down for you. What about Kovalchuks contract did the NHL have a problem with, as opposed the contract Weber signed. Or Parise. Or Suter.

Im putting 20 bucks down that you still didnt get it and respond with some RFA vs UFA nonsense.

(googled it: it was rejected because the last years of the deal would be below the current minimum)
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Jul 20 @ 7:23 PM ET
I'm sorry but I'm not seeing where your argument is.. Nashvilles reasons to have a top defender in Weber be signed to a cheap contract were pathetic, which doesn't settle well with Weber? Agreed?
- Richieattack18


I'm aware that your not seeing the point.
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Jul 20 @ 7:24 PM ET
None of that explains why the Kovalchuk signing was negated. It only explains the difference the between RFA vs UFA. It was the contract the NHL had a problem when they voided the Kovalchuk signing, not his status as a UFA as opposed to RFA.

Since you're having troubling comprehending, ill dumb it down for you. What about Kovalchuks contract did the NHL have a problem with, as opposed the contract Weber signed. Or Parise. Or Suter.

Im putting 20 bucks down that you still didnt get it and respond with some RFA vs UFA nonsense.

- Gunslinger


It was the number of low salary years past where Kovalchuk would be 40 years of age.
Gunslinger
Montreal Canadiens
Location: ID
Joined: 10.15.2011

Jul 20 @ 7:25 PM ET
It was the number of low salary years past where Kovalchuk would be 40 years of age.
- MJL


Yea....but RFA this and UFA that.
CygnusX1
Joined: 04.09.2012

Jul 20 @ 8:15 PM ET
Interesting article Paul. Do you thing it's possible that the offer sheet was actually extended to Weber by the Canadian media on behalf of the Flyers? They're always up to no good.
- Jeffmt



Good one

Are you sure it wasn't extended by Paul's best friend Richard Rodier?
Beatle_john
Vancouver Canucks
Location: Corner of Kirk Maclean's Toe and Robert Reichel's face.
Joined: 01.09.2006

Jul 20 @ 8:43 PM ET
if suter and parise were approved, then no, Paul is not correct. where was this blog from him about those contracts?
- flyershockey



I am saying he is correct that Philly is violating the spirit of the CBA. Contracts are pointless to argue 1 to 1. RFA v UFA.... no point.
Beatle_john
Vancouver Canucks
Location: Corner of Kirk Maclean's Toe and Robert Reichel's face.
Joined: 01.09.2006

Jul 20 @ 8:48 PM ET
Beatle_john
Vancouver Canucks
Location: Corner of Kirk Maclean's Toe and Robert Reichel's face.
Joined: 01.09.2006

Jul 20 @ 8:50 PM ET
PoileRulezzzYo
Nashville Predators
Location: #Where'sDavidPoileHiding?
Joined: 09.21.2009

Jul 20 @ 9:18 PM ET
I couldn't care less about the "spirit" of the CBA. There is a loophole...the flyers are using it. Who cares...
Beatle_john
Vancouver Canucks
Location: Corner of Kirk Maclean's Toe and Robert Reichel's face.
Joined: 01.09.2006

Jul 20 @ 9:43 PM ET
I couldn't care less about the "spirit" of the CBA. There is a loophole...the flyers are using it. Who cares...
- PoileRulezzzYo




Whats the purpose of a CBA then?



Why go on strike?



Why have a cap?

slash&smash
Nashville Predators
Location: WTFDP!!!, NF
Joined: 01.26.2010

Jul 20 @ 9:59 PM ET
Its funny because Nashville posters in the Flyers blog were screaming how the 27 mil is for 2 years! Not 1 year! But I guess when it comes to this argument its.....1 year!
- Just5

or 28 mill for 2 years. Somebody will pay heavy at the trade line in year 2 if things don't work out for Weber and the preds.
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