really? So your saying your players would rather just sign in Philly then wait so they can have there prices driven up? I can see teams like the Rangers, Pittsburgh, Boston, Chicago, and Detroit to name a few that would pay a nice chunk of change to have Giroux on there roster.
- sabrescupbound

Maybe if we lowballed him for a couple years, dragged him through Arbitration and then tried to trade him?

The ironic part about all this is the Owners Locked out the players to reduce their salaries and here we are 5 years latter
- flyers4487

No joke, Juice (a ref on here, you likely know this already) said it best in a few responses to me.

He said “Such awesome management, such a strong team (referring to the Preds) and just getting raped by the same CBA that was supposed to help teams like yours.” And “It took a couple years for the big teams to figure out a way around it but once they did then the cap may as well have been thrown away.”

So damn true.

I understand they are not a big city, but neither is Buffalo. Nashville has never been above 20th in attendance in the NHL....
- jak521

Actually I've done the math on this and at 100% attendance, the highest we can be is 19th with an attendance of 17,113/game. So not being above 20th isn't really saying a whole lot b/c to sell out the entire season we would only be 19th.

Just sayin'

pretty sure for arbitration the player and team each submit a number, and the arbitrator picks one of the two based on which is closer to where the players salary should be. the arbitrator doesn't come up with a number in the middle and award that.
- flyershockey

The Arbitrator doesn't pick one or the other, depending on how far apart they are that may be paritally true, but the arbitrator takes into consideration the current players age, statistics, years played, injury risk, contributions to the teams success or failure etc.. and decides the players fair market value and sets the price. It has nothing to do with choosing the number of what the player is asking for or what the team is offering, but that's not saying the end result couldn't be one or the other.

No joke, Juice (a ref on here, you likely know this already) said it best in a few responses to me.

He said “Such awesome management, such a strong team (referring to the Preds) and just getting raped by the same CBA that was supposed to help teams like yours.” And “It took a couple years for the big teams to figure out a way around it but once they did then the cap may as well have been thrown away.”

So damn true.
- Pelvis

Also tho I feel like unless there is something we did not know Polie really fubared the way he handled the Sutter and Weber situation.

It seems to me that the Flyers offer sheet prevents Philadelphia from signing Weber more than it enables them to. Whatever you care to describe Holmgren's move as, bravado or douchebagery, Poile will not let Weber go for four late first-round picks. Poile has a couple of options, sign Weber and keep him in Nashville, sign Weber and trade him in a year, or let Weber walk and conduct a secondary trade with Philadelphia to receive a fair value for Weber.

The last option listed does not make sense on two levels; Nashville would not make a secondary trade with Philadelphia for Weber's value because they would decrease the value they could receive for him i.e. their would be no bidding war for his services and secondly, if I were Poile, I would irate with the situation Philadelphia placed me and wouldn't want to trade with them unless they are willing to overpay for Weber's services (something they already proved they do not want to do as long as the Schenn, Couturier rumors are true).

The Predators second option, and the only other scenario in which Philadelphia could acquire Weber, is a trade in a following season. Again, if I were Poile, I would not trade with Philadelphia after the offer the sheet and I am sure he could get a fair value for Shea from many other hockey clubs that didn't try to destroy his team.

Actually I've done the math on this and at 100% attendance, the highest we can be is 19th with an attendance of 17,113/game. So not being above 20th isn't really saying a whole lot b/c to sell out the entire season we would only be 19th.

Just sayin'
- scifiman

The sadder part is, even when you're at 20th, there are still many "traditional hockey market" teams below you in that ranking. Nashville's done a great job building a fan base over the years, and the fans are responding. The team also needs to reward their fans by keeping their big names around or, at the very least, move them for a return that benefits them in the short and long terms.

DING!

You are correct Paul.

The intent of tyhe CBA was to create a much more level playing field of the have's and have-nots.

Now I am not saying Nashville is a Have-Not Franchise but I think it is an honest statement saying that their ability to turn a solid profit year after year is not as strong as a team like Philly.

This contract is shows a very ugly ambition by owners. Nashville cannot match with actually harming their franchise. They cannot sign him without harming any chance of success.

Who cares about 4 first rounders when they will be in the lower to mid 20 picks and even if they were good picks, they will not bear fruit until 2018.
- Beatle_john

right because it took Giroux 6 years to become a star.

Also tho I feel like unless there is something we did not know Polie really fubared the way he handled the Sutter and Weber situation.
- flyers4487

I tend to disagree….to a certain degree. I think where Poile messed up was not trading them when they turned down his first few offers. As far as the offers go, it’s reported he offered them the same deal Rinne got on several different occasions. During the Suter fiasco, he offered Suter I think two million less in total pay then he ended up getting. I can’t really blame Poile for not signing them, NOT TRADING THEM I completely blame Poile. I just think both players didn’t want to play here the rest of their careers. Well Weber only wanted to play here if Suter stayed.

Nashville needs to send an offer sheet to Claude Giroux in 2014-15...
- jochfr

Yeah because The Flyers let star RFAs go unsigned give me a break lol. It's not happening.

No joke, Juice (a ref on here, you likely know this already) said it best in a few responses to me.

He said “Such awesome management, such a strong team (referring to the Preds) and just getting raped by the same CBA that was supposed to help teams like yours.” And “It took a couple years for the big teams to figure out a way around it but once they did then the cap may as well have been thrown away.”

So damn true.
- Pelvis

Is there sarcasm in "Such awesome management" They let Suter hit UFA status and HOPED he would choose the Preds, there was no backup plan. And they HOPED they could scare teams away by saying they would match offer sheets for Weber which completely backfired. Awful management. You lock up Norris Caliber defensemen way earlier than the deal expires. Hell, they could of had him 3 years 21 million dollars when he went to arbitration, but they opted 1 year 7.5mil. Piss poor management.

It pushes Nashville against a financial wall but is Philadelphia supposed to feel bad about using the rules to their advantage to push around a financially weaker team?

You may not like it, but the offer sheet isn't against the rules and it was a smart move by Philly when trade talks were going nowhere. You aren't a GM in this league to make friends, you're a GM to improve your team and win a cup. Holmgren has shown that he has the stones to make big plays to improve his team now and in the future.
- Scruffton

Funny how attitudes change when Philly is the author of the offer sheet. Edmonton ruined the league but Philly gets applauded.

pretty sure for arbitration the player and team each submit a number, and the arbitrator picks one of the two based on which is closer to where the players salary should be. the arbitrator doesn't come up with a number in the middle and award that.
- flyershockey

True, that’s why I wrote USUALLY meets somewhere in the middle. Hey, these aren’t my words, they’re Poile’s. I would think he’d have more knowledge of the arbitration process than any of us would. Maybe not, I don’t know. I do know however that no D man was making 7.5 million when Weber was awarded it. The arbitrator basically just drove the price of top defensemen though the roof for no reason. If Weber was worth more than the Norris trophy winner and other nominees were getting paid, then why didn’t Weber win the Norris that year? Stupid question I know, but there’s some truth to that question.

They'll trade him 1 year after that long term deal and then he'll win the cup elsewhere.

History repeats itself.
- theblueandgold

good one

I am sure that Flyers management is feeling a bit of heat given Carter and Richards went else and hoisted the cup. Kudos for them having the seeds to put an offer sheet like this together.

Funny how attitudes change when Philly is the author of the offer sheet. Edmonton ruined the league but Philly gets applauded.

- Sabata

Who was worth more? Penner or Weber

good one

I am sure that Flyers management is feeling a bit of heat given Carter and Richards went else and hoisted the cup. Kudos for them having the seeds to put an offer sheet like this together.
- fsanford

They would still do those trades over again. Richards and Carter are not top men on a team. They were led by Kopitar, Brown, Quick, and Doughty. I am happy Richards won the cup though, not so much Carter after he cried his way out of Columbus, but Homer would still do those trades every day of the week. As would all knowledgable Flyers fans.

True, that’s why I wrote USUALLY meets somewhere in the middle. Hey, these aren’t my words, they’re Poile’s. I would think he’d have more knowledge of the arbitration process than any of us would. Maybe not, I don’t know. I do know however that no D man was making 7.5 million when Weber was awarded it. The arbitrator basically just drove the price of top defensemen though the roof for no reason. If Weber was worth more than the Norris trophy winner and other nominees were getting paid, then why didn’t Weber win the Norris that year? Stupid question I know, but there’s some truth to that question.
- Pelvis

Good points, and although I feel sorry for the Predator organization and their fans, Poile also let one Scott Stevens get away by an offer sheet while he was GM of the Caps.

I guess if Weber does leave, Pred fans can be somewhat happy that their team is great at drafting and developing D men.

Well I’m off for the day, my fellow master-debaters! Sorry if I miss some responses. Nothing but love for all my fellow hockey fans! Have a good weekend, get drunk, get laid, all that good sh*t.

Who was worth more? Penner or Weber
- Richieattack18

That's not the issue.

Good points, and although I feel sorry for the Predator organization and their fans, Poile also let one Scott Stevens get away by an offer sheet while he was GM of the Caps.

I guess if Weber does leave, Pred fans can be somewhat happy that their team is great at drafting and developing D men.
- feelingkettle

Very true, we are a D factory. Plus we can trade future picks for players today or to move up in a draft if there is a player we like. That's if we don't match that is.

That's not the issue.
- Sabata

Sour grapes

Only Philly would be bound by a NMC or NTC.
- Predaceous

An Offer Sheet is not a SPC. It includes term, bonuses, and paragraph 1 salary. Where ever Weber winds up, the SPC will most certainly include Movement clauses.

Is there sarcasm in "Such awesome management" They let Suter hit UFA status and HOPED he would choose the Preds, there was no backup plan. And they HOPED they could scare teams away by saying they would match offer sheets for Weber which completely backfired. Awful management. You lock up Norris Caliber defensemen way earlier than the deal expires. Hell, they could of had him 3 years 21 million dollars when he went to arbitration, but they opted 1 year 7.5mil. Piss poor management.
- Richieattack18

I don't think so, but you'll have to ask Juice to know for sure. And again, you can't make players sign contracts!!! Why is everyone acting like we didn't try to sign them long term? We've been trying to sign them (or extend them) for the last two years. If they don't want to be here, they aren't going to sign no matter the term. They didn't sign, and now they're leaving just like they wanted.

EDIT: Maybe leaving, we're not done with Weber quite yet.

Ugh this crap again. The arbitration process ALWAYS works like this. The team goes low, the player goes high, the arbitrator decides usually meeting in the middle. I’m not sure where 7.5 million came from anyway. The arbitrator is supposed to come up with the value of a played based on the performance and pay of his peers. There was no other D man making 7.5 million a year before Shea. Not even the frigging Norris trophy winner that year!!! Where did that number come from?

Also, never mind that fact Poile offered Shea 7 Million a year prior to the arbitration. Plus, you can’t MAKE players sign contracts. If you could he’d be locked up already. Please quit trying to make this situation into negligence on the Predators part. Weber doesn’t want to be here, Suter didn’t want to be here. No amount of term or money will change this.
- Pelvis

Well said. The Arbitration issue is being way overblown. That's how Arbitration is supposed to work.

Tend to agree with the author about circumvention and the leeway Bettman would have in this case. Specifically, this was not a UFA where all teams were fairly competing. It was an RFA where most teams were following an unwritten courtesy rule. In that light, the market was limited and Philly Japped them. Bettman is Lord of all owners. He could issue an executive order, just like other big shot Presidents do.