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Forums :: NHL Talk :: WHO is in a better situation: LEAFS or SENS?
Author Message
daeth
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: every day, once a day, give yourself a present, ON
Joined: 09.15.2005

Mar 26 @ 5:47 PM ET
He scored 45 goals in his last two seasons with the Devils, and that includes the 48 game season.

What is the reason for his lack of scoring this season. I don't see the leafs play that much, so would I be wrong assuming he's not being used right by the coach?

- Doppleganger

He had 18 points in 82 games in 2010-2011 so this kind of production from him is nothing new.

With that said he's still probably playing worse than he should. He needs guys who can cycle with him and this just isn't a very good puck possession team so that's hard. Kulemin has been part of some solid puck possession lines in the past and as far as I know can play LW but he's likely more comfortable on the right side so that'll probably never happen.
Mr_Squeaks
Ottawa Senators
Location: Location: Location: Glitch in
Joined: 06.26.2006

Mar 26 @ 7:07 PM ET
thats what Melnyk says when someone makes fun of the sens
- nightmare3020


I don't think you dumbells gave this post the appreciation it deserves!
prock
Nashville Predators
Location: Nice to know how comfortable t, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Mar 26 @ 10:00 PM ET
Oh silly leaf fans

The only thing you can hang your hat on is that the leafs owners sign players to retirement contracts (Clarkson and Phaneuf) to play like crap when it counts, by sucking millions of dollars out of their fans pockets by charging the highest ticket prices in the NHL.

SO in your silly minds, because the leafs spend tons more cash, than the Senators, to play just enough to finish a little ahead of the Senators, and miss the playoffs again.

WOO HOOOO !!!!




toronto maple leafs – Avg Price: $368.60
New York Giants - Avg. ticket price: $292.36 (highest in NFL)

- Doppleganger


Yes, there is more demand for leafs tix than send tix. Its true, no one cares about the Sens, so ticket prices stay low.

But the AVERAGE ticket price is nowhere near $360. I think that's the price of platinum seats. Golds are 250 or 300 I think. Purples go as low as $48 I think.
nightmare3020
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Windsor Area, ON
Joined: 08.23.2006

Mar 27 @ 8:45 AM ET
I don't think you dumbells gave this post the appreciation it deserves!
- Mr_Squeaks

i thought it was gold .... but turns out was mold
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Mar 27 @ 8:48 AM ET
Meh the leafs are fine ,the defense is far too young right now thats all.Good group of forwards, good goaltender.The defense will get better as it gains experience.Ottawa,s will too
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Mar 27 @ 9:00 AM ET
What mistakes would you be referring to? I know I've made a few, but just wondering what you're referring to.
- Doppleganger

claiming you never double counted the games played, and then "lashing out" when I showed you the quotes you asked for would be the most recent one... but pretty much every argument you've ever made where you've been proved wrong(all of them)- you just deflect and try to change the argument, never admitting you were wrong. It's so predictable now.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Mar 27 @ 9:01 AM ET
Yes, there is more demand for leafs tix than send tix. Its true, no one cares about the Sens, so ticket prices stay low.

But the AVERAGE ticket price is nowhere near $360. I think that's the price of platinum seats. Golds are 250 or 300 I think. Purples go as low as $48 I think.

- prock

what now?
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Mar 27 @ 9:51 AM ET
He had 18 points in 82 games in 2010-2011 so this kind of production from him is nothing new.

With that said he's still probably playing worse than he should. He needs guys who can cycle with him and this just isn't a very good puck possession team so that's hard. Kulemin has been part of some solid puck possession lines in the past and as far as I know can play LW but he's likely more comfortable on the right side so that'll probably never happen.

- daeth



When he was with New Jersey, for the 2011-12 season, when he scored 30 goals, he averaged over 3 minutes per game on the PP with 8 PPGs. He playing 2 minutes less per game (average) with the leafs, and only has 1 PPG.

It kinda looks like the toronto coaching staff is not using him in the same manner he was used in New Jersey.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Mar 27 @ 9:59 AM ET
claiming you never double counted the games played, and then "lashing out" when I showed you the quotes you asked for would be the most recent one... but pretty much every argument you've ever made where you've been proved wrong(all of them)- you just deflect and try to change the argument, never admitting you were wrong. It's so predictable now.
- Feeling Glucky?



You're a liar.

You never "quoted" any of my posts, where you claim I "double counted games". What the heck does that mean anyways???


I pointed out that ALL the teams behind the leafs in the conference had "games in hand" on the leafs. And one of the genius leaf fans here said that "games in hand" didn't matter

Well SEVEN of those teams, with "games in hand" won some of those "games in hand" and have now passed the leafs in that standings. Partly because of winning those "games in hand", and partly becasue the leafs have not won enough games in the meantime to keep up with the teams that have blown past them.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Mar 27 @ 10:16 AM ET
You're a liar.

You never "quoted" any of my posts, where you claim I "double counted games". What the heck does that mean anyways???


I pointed out that ALL the teams behind the leafs in the conference had "games in hand" on the leafs. And one of the genius leaf fans here said that "games in hand" didn't matter

Well SEVEN of those teams, with "games in hand" won some of those "games in hand" and have now passed the leafs in that standings. Partly because of winning those "games in hand", and partly becasue the leafs have not won enough games in the meantime to keep up with the teams that have blown past them.

- Doppleganger


simply astounding. You wait one page to pretend it never happened.
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: GMTM on Eichel: "He certainly won't get his pee pee slapped by me for being a little more outspoken., ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Mar 27 @ 10:21 AM ET
You're a liar.

You never "quoted" any of my posts, where you claim I "double counted games". What the heck does that mean anyways???


I pointed out that ALL the teams behind the leafs in the conference had "games in hand" on the leafs. And one of the genius leaf fans here said that "games in hand" didn't matter

Well SEVEN of those teams, with "games in hand" won some of those "games in hand" and have now passed the leafs in that standings. Partly because of winning those "games in hand", and partly becasue the leafs have not won enough games in the meantime to keep up with the teams that have blown past them.

- Doppleganger



You still don't comprehend that games in hand is meaningless when talking about pts%.

Astonishing.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Mar 27 @ 10:44 AM ET
You still don't comprehend that games in hand is meaningless when talking about pts%.

Astonishing.

- burn



Look, I'll try to explain once again. Try to follow along.

I was pointing out that looking at POINTS only, some people can get fooled into thinking a team with more points is better than a team with fewer.........because there are only two points in the season when ALL the teams have played the same number of games, opening and closing day of the season.

A team with fewer points CAN have a better record than a team with more points, because the standings, which are based on points only, do not account for games in hand.

This is why I, for a number of years now have been posting standing based on P% to point out this very point.

It was I that pointed out the NHL replaced Winning Percentage with Points percentage once they introduced the loser point.



So a few weeks back, I pointed it out again, that when looking at points based standing, because one the low information leaf fan here was pointing out that the leafs had caught and passed a team or two in the points based standing, was NOT taking "game in hand" into consideration, and that the teams below them actually had a better record that the leafs, and they could see this by looking at the standing based on points percentage.



Now that is so easy to understand, but one poster here is trying to spin this into "double counting games"...............whatever the heck that means.............and he claims to have quoted this............but he did not, and cannot, so either he's a liar, or just not that smart after all.



HERE is the exchange between myself and the leaf fan.
March 6 @ 8:53 AM ET

Well the Leafs just caught, and passed Tampa. Once again, you were wrong.

Also, can you please update your "true standings" stats.

Thanks in advance. Much love xo

- the_cause2000



March 6 @ 10:02 AM ET
Sorry, but you've been fooled into thinking the leafs have passed Tampa, by virtue of having more points, and having played two more games than Tampa.

In order to "pass" Tampa, they'd have to have a higher Points Percentage ("true standings") than Tampa.

.589 > .578

- Doppleganger




March 6 @ 10:18 AM ET
but you said toronto wont catch them and they did. u mad bro?
- the_cause2000



March 6 @ 2:55 PM ET
When they have a better P% than Tampa, that is when they've caught and passed them.

Like I said earlier, I like Tampa's chances of finishing ahead of the leafs. How about you? Are you trying to say the leafs will finish the season ahead of Tampa in the Division?

.

So now, can the Brainiac who came up with the "double counting games" please point it out?
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: GMTM on Eichel: "He certainly won't get his pee pee slapped by me for being a little more outspoken., ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Mar 27 @ 11:08 AM ET
Look, I'll try to explain once again. Try to follow along.

I was pointing out that looking at POINTS only, some people can get fooled into thinking a team with more points is better than a team with fewer.........because there are only two points in the season when ALL the teams have played the same number of games, opening and closing day of the season.

A team with fewer points CAN have a better record than a team with more points, because the standings, which are based on points only, do not account for games in hand.

This is why I, for a number of years now have been posting standing based on P% to point out this very point.

It was I that pointed out the NHL replaced Winning Percentage with Points percentage once they introduced the loser point.



So a few weeks back, I pointed it out again, that when looking at points based standing, because one the low information leaf fan here was pointing out that the leafs had caught and passed a team or two in the points based standing, was NOT taking "game in hand" into consideration, and that the teams below them actually had a better record that the leafs, and they could see this by looking at the standing based on points percentage.



Now that is so easy to understand, but one poster here is trying to spin this into "double counting games"...............whatever the heck that means.............and he claims to have quoted this............but he did not, and cannot, so either he's a liar, or just not that smart after all.



HERE is the exchange between myself and the leaf fan.
March 6 @ 8:53 AM ET




March 6 @ 10:02 AM ET




March 6 @ 10:18 AM ET



March 6 @ 2:55 PM ET

.

So now, can the Brainiac who came up with the "double counting games" please point it out?

- Doppleganger



No you didn't. You were talking about Pts% and saying that teams behind had more games in hand.

Double counting:


And the Leafs have a better point percentage than the sens.

So why did you post the number of games played?

- Feeling Glucky?



Because "games in hand" are important, and puts a little more perspective on the standings.
- Doppleganger

Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Mar 27 @ 11:37 AM ET
No you didn't. You were talking about Pts% and saying that teams behind had more games in hand.

Double counting:

- burn



This only proves that you and your friend could not follow along with the thread, and got really mixed up.


I was clearly talking about the difference between Points only based standings, that the NHL uses, that does not account for games in hand (because games played are listed separately)........................................................................... and the "true standing" (P%) that I usually post here, that shows that teams lower in the Points only based standings who have games in hand, who actually have a better record (P%) than a team higher in the Points only based standings.


Think about for a minute or two.

How can a team with fewer points, have a better record (P%) than a team with more points???


It's because the team with the better P%, but fewer points, has played fewer games AKA games in hand.



Take a look at today's standings http://www.nhl.com/ice/te...t=points&viewName=summary

toronto has 80 points and is ranked 15th overall (.541 P%)
Dallas has 79 points and is ranked 19th overall (.549 P%)


However Dallas has a better record ( higher P%).
How is it possible that Dallas is ranked lower, but has a better record??
It's becasue they have games in hand over the leafs.

Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Mar 27 @ 11:44 AM ET
This only proves that you and your friend could not follow along with the thread, and got really mixed up.


I was clearly talking about the difference between Points only based standings, that the NHL uses, that does not account for games in hand (because games played are listed separately)........................................................................... and the "true standing" (P%) that I usually post here, that shows that teams lower in the Points only based standings who have games in hand, who actually have a better record (P%) than a team higher in the Points only based standings.


Think about for a minute or two.

How can a team with fewer points, have a better record (P%) than a team with more points???


It's because the team with the better P%, but fewer points, has played fewer games AKA games in hand.



Take a look at today's standings http://www.nhl.com/ice/te...t=points&viewName=summary

toronto has 80 points and is ranked 15th overall (.541 P%)
Dallas has 79 points and is ranked 19th overall (.549 P%)


However Dallas has a better record ( higher P%).
How is it possible that Dallas is ranked lower, but has a better record??
It's becasue they have games in hand over the leafs.

- Doppleganger

twist twist twist away!

burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: GMTM on Eichel: "He certainly won't get his pee pee slapped by me for being a little more outspoken., ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Mar 27 @ 11:48 AM ET
This only proves that you and your friend could not follow along with the thread, and got really mixed up.


I was clearly talking about the difference between Points only based standings, that the NHL uses, that does not account for games in hand (because games played are listed separately)........................................................................... and the "true standing" (P%) that I usually post here, that shows that teams lower in the Points only based standings who have games in hand, who actually have a better record (P%) than a team higher in the Points only based standings.


Think about for a minute or two.

How can a team with fewer points, have a better record (P%) than a team with more points???


It's because the team with the better P%, but fewer points, has played fewer games AKA games in hand.



Take a look at today's standings http://www.nhl.com/ice/te...t=points&viewName=summary

toronto has 80 points and is ranked 15th overall (.541 P%)
Dallas has 79 points and is ranked 19th overall (.549 P%)


However Dallas has a better record ( higher P%).
How is it possible that Dallas is ranked lower, but has a better record??
It's becasue they have games in hand over the leafs.

- Doppleganger



Stilll don;'t get it..... games in hand have nothing to do with P%.

you have no clue what you're talking about.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Mar 27 @ 11:54 AM ET
Stilll don;'t get it..... games in hand have nothing to do with P%.

you have no clue what you're talking about.

- burn



What a low information person you are.

Points Percentage accounts for games in hand.




toronto has 80 points and is ranked 15th overall (.541 P%)
Dallas has 79 points and is ranked 19th overall (.549 P%)

Dallas has a game in hand, and the points percentage shows that by being higher than toronto's, even though toronto is ranked higher in points.


.549>.541
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Mar 27 @ 12:03 PM ET
What a low information person you are.

Points Percentage accounts for games in hand.




toronto has 80 points and is ranked 15th overall (.541 P%)
Dallas has 79 points and is ranked 19th overall (.549 P%)

Dallas has a game in hand, and the points percentage shows that by being higher than toronto's, even though toronto is ranked higher in points.


.549>.541

- Doppleganger

That's right dopps. Pretend it didn't happen.

Don't want bad dreams during nappy time!!
the_cause2000
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Not quite my tempo
Joined: 02.26.2007

Mar 27 @ 12:46 PM ET
Leafs definitely
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: GMTM on Eichel: "He certainly won't get his pee pee slapped by me for being a little more outspoken., ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Mar 27 @ 12:53 PM ET
What a low information person you are.

Points Percentage accounts for games in hand.




toronto has 80 points and is ranked 15th overall (.541 P%)
Dallas has 79 points and is ranked 19th overall (.549 P%)

Dallas has a game in hand, and the points percentage shows that by being higher than toronto's, even though toronto is ranked higher in points.


.549>.541

- Doppleganger



Holy (frank).

What in the hell are you even talking about here??
Morris
Referee
Edmonton Oilers
Location: Hall looks disengaged, NS
Joined: 07.18.2007

Mar 27 @ 1:13 PM ET
twist twist twist away!


- Feeling Glucky?

Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Mar 27 @ 2:03 PM ET
twist twist twist away!


- Feeling Glucky?


The only thing twisting here, is the leafs post season aspirations, that are twisting in the wind.

From third in the conference and home ice for the playoffs, to 10th in the conference in 11 days.

Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Mar 27 @ 2:19 PM ET
The only thing twisting here, is the leafs post season aspirations, that are twisting in the wind.

From third in the conference and home ice for the playoffs, to 10th in the conference in 11 days.


- Doppleganger


likelihood that the sens make the playoffs
first round picks for a rebuilding team, that's going to finish in the bottom-10, maybe bottom-5 this year.
interest from Melnyk to improve the team
cups won by the senators
future.


Damn- not many graphic designers can come up with a logo that so perfectly encapsulates the company they work for. Kudos to that guy. Probably Melnyk's best hire to date.



And it's fitting that you're a fan of this team, since you have knowledge about the game.
Morris
Referee
Edmonton Oilers
Location: Hall looks disengaged, NS
Joined: 07.18.2007

Mar 27 @ 2:24 PM ET
likelihood that the sens make the playoffs
first round picks for a rebuilding team, that's going to finish in the bottom-10, maybe bottom-5 this year.
interest from Melnyk to improve the team
cups won by the senators
future.


Damn- not many graphic designers can come up with a logo that so perfectly encapsulates the company they work for. Kudos to that guy. Probably Melnyk's best hire to date.



And it's fitting that you're a fan of this team, since you have knowledge about the game.

- Feeling Glucky?

Are you kidding? Melnyk doesn't have that kind of money. He saved money by using some old defunct company's logo
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Mar 30 @ 7:51 PM ET
So.... WHO is in a better situation: LEAFS or SENS?
- Feeling Glucky?



Well, I guess the leafs, who are 4 points higher in the standing than the Senators could seem to be in a little better position, at this time, than the Senators, who do have 2 games in hand...........so theoretically they could win those two games in hand, and catch the leafs in points.


BTW, the Red Wings, playing in the second of back to back games (in two days) just won one of the games in hand that they had on the leafs, and move two more points ahead of the leafs.


Who was it that said that games in hand did not matter???
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419, 420, 421, 422, 423, 424, 425, 426, 427, 428, 429, 430, 431, 432, 433, 434, 435, 436, 437, 438, 439, 440, 441, 442, 443, 444, 445, 446, 447, 448, 449, 450, 451, 452, 453, 454, 455, 456, 457, 458, 459, 460, 461, 462, 463, 464, 465, 466, 467, 468, 469, 470, 471, 472, 473, 474, 475, 476, 477, 478, 479, 480, 481, 482, 483, 484, 485, 486, 487, 488, 489, 490, 491, 492, 493, 494, 495, 496, 497, 498, 499, 500, 501, 502, 503, 504, 505, 506, 507, 508, 509, 510, 511, 512, 513, 514, 515, 516, 517, 518, 519, 520, 521, 522, 523, 524, 525, 526, 527, 528, 529, 530, 531, 532, 533, 534, 535, 536, 537, 538, 539, 540, 541, 542, 543, 544, 545, 546, 547, 548, 549, 550, 551, 552, 553, 554, 555, 556, 557, 558, 559, 560, 561, 562, 563, 564, 565, 566, 567, 568, 569, 570, 571, 572, 573, 574, 575, 576, 577, 578, 579, 580, 581, 582, 583, 584, 585, 586, 587, 588, 589, 590, 591, 592, 593, 594, 595, 596, 597, 598, 599, 600, 601, 602, 603, 604, 605, 606, 607, 608, 609, 610, 611, 612, 613, 614, 615, 616, 617, 618, 619, 620, 621, 622, 623, 624, 625, 626, 627, 628, 629, 630, 631, 632, 633, 634, 635, 636, 637, 638, 639, 640, 641, 642, 643, 644, 645, 646, 647, 648, 649, 650, 651, 652, 653, 654, 655, 656, 657, 658, 659, 660, 661, 662, 663, 664, 665, 666, 667, 668, 669, 670, 671, 672, 673, 674, 675, 676, 677, 678, 679, 680, 681, 682, 683, 684, 685, 686, 687, 688, 689, 690, 691, 692, 693, 694, 695, 696, 697, 698, 699, 700, 701, 702, 703, 704, 705, 706, 707, 708, 709, 710, 711, 712, 713, 714, 715, 716, 717, 718, 719, 720, 721, 722, 723, 724, 725, 726, 727, 728, 729, 730, 731, 732, 733, 734, 735, 736, 737, 738, 739, 740, 741, 742, 743, 744, 745, 746, 747, 748, 749, 750, 751, 752, 753, 754, 755, 756, 757, 758, 759, 760, 761, 762, 763, 764, 765, 766, 767, 768, 769, 770, 771, 772, 773, 774, 775, 776, 777, 778, 779, 780, 781, 782, 783, 784, 785, 786, 787, 788, 789, 790, 791, 792, 793, 794, 795, 796, 797, 798, 799, 800, 801, 802, 803, 804, 805, 806, 807, 808, 809, 810, 811, 812, 813, 814, 815, 816, 817, 818, 819, 820, 821, 822, 823, 824, 825, 826, 827, 828, 829, 830, 831, 832, 833, 834, 835, 836, 837, 838, 839, 840, 841, 842, 843, 844, 845, 846, 847, 848, 849, 850, 851, 852, 853, 854, 855, 856, 857, 858, 859, 860, 861, 862, 863, 864, 865, 866, 867, 868, 869, 870, 871, 872, 873, 874, 875, 876, 877, 878, 879, 880, 881, 882, 883, 884, 885, 886, 887, 888, 889, 890, 891, 892, 893, 894, 895, 896, 897, 898, 899, 900, 901, 902, 903, 904, 905, 906, 907, 908, 909, 910, 911, 912, 913, 914, 915, 916, 917, 918, 919, 920, 921, 922, 923, 924, 925, 926, 927, 928, 929, 930, 931, 932, 933, 934, 935, 936, 937, 938, 939, 940, 941, 942, 943, 944, 945, 946, 947, 948, 949, 950, 951, 952, 953, 954, 955, 956, 957, 958, 959, 960, 961, 962, 963, 964, 965, 966, 967, 968, 969, 970, 971, 972, 973, 974, 975, 976, 977, 978, 979, 980, 981, 982, 983, 984, 985, 986, 987, 988, 989, 990, 991, 992, 993, 994, 995, 996, 997, 998, 999, 1000, 1001, 1002, 1003, 1004, 1005, 1006, 1007, 1008, 1009, 1010, 1011, 1012, 1013, 1014, 1015, 1016, 1017, 1018, 1019, 1020, 1021, 1022, 1023, 1024, 1025, 1026, 1027, 1028, 1029, 1030, 1031, 1032, 1033, 1034, 1035, 1036, 1037, 1038, 1039, 1040, 1041, 1042, 1043, 1044, 1045, 1046, 1047, 1048, 1049, 1050, 1051, 1052, 1053, 1054, 1055, 1056, 1057, 1058, 1059, 1060, 1061, 1062, 1063, 1064, 1065, 1066, 1067, 1068, 1069, 1070, 1071, 1072, 1073, 1074, 1075, 1076, 1077, 1078, 1079, 1080, 1081, 1082, 1083, 1084, 1085, 1086, 1087, 1088, 1089, 1090, 1091, 1092, 1093, 1094, 1095, 1096, 1097, 1098, 1099, 1100, 1101, 1102, 1103, 1104, 1105, 1106, 1107, 1108, 1109, 1110, 1111, 1112, 1113, 1114, 1115, 1116, 1117, 1118, 1119, 1120, 1121, 1122, 1123, 1124, 1125, 1126, 1127, 1128, 1129, 1130, 1131, 1132, 1133, 1134, 1135, 1136, 1137, 1138, 1139, 1140, 1141, 1142, 1143, 1144, 1145, 1146, 1147, 1148, 1149, 1150, 1151, 1152, 1153, 1154, 1155, 1156, 1157, 1158, 1159, 1160, 1161, 1162, 1163, 1164, 1165, 1166, 1167, 1168, 1169, 1170, 1171, 1172, 1173, 1174, 1175, 1176, 1177, 1178, 1179, 1180, 1181, 1182, 1183, 1184  Next