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Forums :: NHL Talk :: WHO is in a better situation: LEAFS or SENS?
Author Message
D0PPELGANGER
Ottawa Senators
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 05.06.2015

Sep 22 @ 8:22 AM ET
I mean, it is strange that a player was cleared to play in the playoffs (when they receive no salary) and hasn't been cleared to play in the regular season (when they do receive a salary).
- BetterCallSaul




He was cleared in the Spring, from his concussion injury.

He sustained a neck injury in the playoffs, and from what I've heard this is why he failed his medical.


The difference here, is that the Sens want MacArthur to play, the leafs don't want Lupul to play ............. the Senators are not over the Cap, the leafs are (currently) 4 million over the cap, and if Lupul is cleared to play, that would be a big problem to the leafs, as they would most likely have to shed a player they don't want to.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Sep 22 @ 8:29 AM ET
Leafs never dipped into Lupul’s LTIR space, and had a doctor say that he wasn’t healthy enough to play.

Look at the situation, you really have two scenarios- 1) the Leafs got a doctor to risk his practice by lying about the wellbeing of a player, and convinced said player to not make any official complaint(in which case the player is complicit) all to just not play him, which they could have done either way

or

2) the player shouldn’t be playing, and was venting on social media.

Which is more likely to you?

The league is looking into this to cover their bases. If this was about Hossa, the league would be looking into Hossa.

- Feeling Glucky?


It is pure speculation on my part that this is being driven by the Hossa fiasco.

The Hawks announced that Hossa was going to retire due to medical reasons (skin disorder). Several western teams formally complained to the NHL that the Hawks were manipulating the cap restrictions by using an LTIR option to move a salary off the cap. It does not matter if the insurance makes good on the payment. Indeed, if the team does not make a claim on the fund it becomes even more questionable.

So, when Lupul goes public saying "they all cheat" and he is okay to play heads are exploding in NHL headquarters. Lupul goes on to say he looks forward to resuming his career once his contract with the Leafs expires.

If your a hockey fan it is all entirely confusing. If you have worked even on one disability insurance claim you understand why the defensive reaction of the Leafs has been so strong.

As I said this will get resolved quietly. But, it is going to change how it works going forward.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Sep 22 @ 8:34 AM ET
Or it could suggest that his salary wasn’t worth affecting their premiums. And in any case, if there is no insurance problem, and they didn’t use his LTIR space... what have they done wrong?
- Feeling Glucky?


Because (and this is the Hossa complaint of the western teams) they are using non compensated LTIR to circumvent the cap. So, if they could have filed for compensation but did not you want to ask them, "why not?"



spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Sep 22 @ 8:46 AM ET
He was cleared in the Spring, from his concussion injury.

He sustained a neck injury in the playoffs, and from what I've heard this is why he failed his medical.


The difference here, is that the Sens want MacArthur to play, the leafs don't want Lupul to play ............. the Senators are not over the Cap, the leafs are (currently) 4 million over the cap, and if Lupul is cleared to play, that would be a big problem to the leafs, as they would most likely have to shed a player they don't want to.

- D0PPELGANGER



Yes. This what the complaint of the western teams is all about.

You can have LTIR compensated by the insurance fund or non compensated.

In some ways this is a bit unfair to the Leafs. Lupul posted pictures. Too many of the western teams are really upset and now you have a smoking gun.

You cannot cover this up. Lupul is going to have to specify his injury. He will be examined directly on the severity of the disability. He will be told by his agent (lawyer) not to misrepresent his condition in any way.

If Lupul's snow boarding Instagram is representative of his actual condition, there will be consequences.
senstroll
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Sep 22 @ 8:50 AM ET
Not to mention Clarke MacArthur, right?
- BetterCallSaul


It was funny listening to the pre-game talk.. you could tell they were trying to not say what everyone was thinking. which is basically.. how the (frank) was he cleared to play 24 games and now suddenly not cleared after several months off.

senstroll
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Sep 22 @ 8:56 AM ET
He was cleared in the Spring, from his concussion injury.

He sustained a neck injury in the playoffs, and from what I've heard this is why he failed his medical.


The difference here, is that the Sens want MacArthur to play, the leafs don't want Lupul to play ............. the Senators are not over the Cap, the leafs are (currently) 4 million over the cap, and if Lupul is cleared to play, that would be a big problem to the leafs, as they would most likely have to shed a player they don't want to.

- D0PPELGANGER


Something fishy here also. Sens are cheap and this is the quotes from an article.

Good to go when he doesnt get paid in the playoffs.. but no good when he needs to get paid.

If he’s not cleared to return, the Senators would put him on the long term injury list, where his salary would not be counted against the cap.

Insurance would cover 80 per cent of the salary, meaning the Senators would have the salary room to replace him with another player.


the league is full of this questionable poop
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Sep 22 @ 9:00 AM ET
It was funny listening to the pre-game talk.. you could tell they were trying to not say what everyone was thinking. which is basically.. how the (frank) was he cleared to play 24 games and now suddenly not cleared after several months off.
- senstroll


I thought it was wrong to let him play.

He obtained a 2nd opinion from his Doctor saying he was "fit" to play.

The Sens had the right to challenge the opinion and have him submit to another examination by their Doctors. I believe it was irresponsible to let him play after 4 extended periods of recovering from severe head trauma.

I loved his contribution but he puts his entire life at risk to continue playing when you clearly are at risk of devastating consequences.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Sep 22 @ 9:01 AM ET
Because (and this is the Hossa complaint of the western teams) they are using non compensated LTIR to circumvent the cap. So, if they could have filed for compensation but did not you want to ask them, "why not?"
- spatso

But the Leafs didn’t dip into his LTIR, only Robidas and Horton’s.

Because LTIR doesn’t just give you extra space, it allows you to replace a player with another one, with no addition to your cap hit, provided the replacing player is a lower hit than the injured one.

LTIR and insurance are seperate issues.

So basically, assuming the worst, and the doctor lied and Lupul did nothing about it(which is a huge hurdle right away)... we’re still in a situation where the Leafs haven’t circumvented the cap. We don’t know if Lupul is insured, and if he is, if the Leafs used said insurance(which would likely involve the insurance company also looking into his condition)...

All we know is that a player went on social media, made an offhand remark in the comments section of a post, deleted it, and never went through any league channels to file a complaint, or ask for a second opinion.

And as Kypros said... if he wanted to show that he was ready to come back, wed see a lot more in the way of workout pics, and a lot less partying/jet setting on said instagram account.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Sep 22 @ 9:04 AM ET
Yes. This what the complaint of the western teams is all about.

You can have LTIR compensated by the insurance fund or non compensated.

In some ways this is a bit unfair to the Leafs. Lupul posted pictures. Too many of the western teams are really upset and now you have a smoking gun.

You cannot cover this up. Lupul is going to have to specify his injury. He will be examined directly on the severity of the disability. He will be told by his agent (lawyer) not to misrepresent his condition in any way.

If Lupul's snow boarding Instagram is representative of his actual condition, there will be consequences.

- spatso


Hockey is a very high intensity game, and nobody polices his life outside of the game. A doctor could tell him he shouldn’t be snowboarding if he wants to get into game shape... but they can’t stop him from doing that on his own time.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Sep 22 @ 9:05 AM ET
Something fishy here also. Sens are cheap and this is the quotes from an article.

Good to go when he doesnt get paid in the playoffs.. but no good when he needs to get paid.



the league is full of this questionable poop

- senstroll


The fact that MacArthur did not experience a severe injury in playoff run does not excuse the Sens bad judgement in this matter.

I do not doubt that Leafs have been caught cheating on the margins (Lupul) but I do not think their sin is as grave as the Sens in allowing MacArthur to play when he is clearly at risk.
senstroll
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Sep 22 @ 9:10 AM ET
The fact that MacArthur did not experience a severe injury in playoff run does not excuse the Sens bad judgement in this matter.

I do not doubt that Leafs have been caught cheating on the margins (Lupul) but I do not think their sin is as grave as the Sens in allowing MacArthur to play when he is clearly at risk.

- spatso


I agree

And I said it before all this stuff came out with Lupul, that the Leafs and Robidas Island was fishy as (frank).

Tumbleweed
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: everyday i see my dream
Joined: 03.14.2014

Sep 22 @ 9:11 AM ET
Lupul posted a photo on Instagram on Sunday of what appeared to be him snowboarding, with the comments, "Haha failed physical? They cheat, everyone lets them," and "I'm ready.. Just awaiting the call."

This is not good.

Anybody who has operated a small business or managed a large organization are cringing at the exposure this comment creates for the league (more than the Leafs).

They will fix it. They know that any attempt to cover it over will only grow the problem. As I said before, I think this is more about Hossa than it is about Lupul.

- spatso



Tumbleweed
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: everyday i see my dream
Joined: 03.14.2014

Sep 22 @ 9:19 AM ET
He was cleared in the Spring, from his concussion injury.

He sustained a neck injury in the playoffs, and from what I've heard this is why he failed his medical.


The difference here, is that the Sens want MacArthur to play, the leafs don't want Lupul to play ............. the Senators are not over the Cap, the leafs are (currently) 4 million over the cap, and if Lupul is cleared to play, that would be a big problem to the leafs, as they would most likely have to shed a player they don't want to.

- D0PPELGANGER


Lupul being cleared to play won't be a cap problem. Sorry d0pps
bixll
Location: New Glasgow, NS
Joined: 09.04.2008

Sep 22 @ 9:20 AM ET
I agree

And I said it before all this stuff came out with Lupul, that the Leafs and Robidas Island was fishy as (frank).

- senstroll



Uncle Lou driving the bus... It's all under control.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Sep 22 @ 9:24 AM ET
I agree

And I said it before all this stuff came out with Lupul, that the Leafs and Robidas Island was fishy as (frank).

- senstroll

Meh - 37 year old Robidas with a bad knee injury isn't a likely comeback story. Horton is done, and everybody knows it.

The Leafs' use of LTIR in the Horton case is sketchy because it's basically a loophole that allowed them to trade cash. If I was the league, I would ban the trading of players on LTIR, and close that loophole off.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Sep 22 @ 9:26 AM ET
Lupul being cleared to play won't be a cap problem. Sorry d0pps
- Tumbleweed

If anything it'd bolster their AHL lineup.

Or they could trade him to play in Ottawa's top-6... and we could hear what a great deal it was from Spasto
senstroll
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Sep 22 @ 9:26 AM ET
Uncle Lou driving the bus... It's all under control.
- bixll


its still fishy no matter what the outcome
bixll
Location: New Glasgow, NS
Joined: 09.04.2008

Sep 22 @ 9:29 AM ET
its still fishy no matter what the outcome
- senstroll


senstroll
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Sep 22 @ 9:32 AM ET
Meh - 37 year old Robidas with a bad knee injury isn't a likely comeback story. Horton is done, and everybody knows it.

The Leafs' use of LTIR in the Horton case is sketchy because it's basically a loophole that allowed them to trade cash. If I was the league, I would ban the trading of players on LTIR, and close that loophole off.

- Feeling Glucky?



I just mean the Robidas Island thing in general. How fans just kept saying a player they didnt want would disappear.. then someone did
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Sep 22 @ 9:34 AM ET
Uncle Lou driving the bus... It's all under control.
- bixll


You better slow down that bus.

Lamerello already lost a 1st round pick for cheating.

Bettman slapped him really hard for trying to circumvent the cap through a questionable contract move.
D0PPELGANGER
Ottawa Senators
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 05.06.2015

Sep 22 @ 9:36 AM ET
Something fishy here also. Sens are cheap and this is the quotes from an article.

Good to go when he doesnt get paid in the playoffs.. but no good when he needs to get paid.



the league is full of this questionable poop

- senstroll



I don't disagree that this fishy business is not just confined to one team, but MacArthur worked so hard to get back in the line up last spring, when no one expected him to ever play again, that it seems unlike him to be faking anything now ....... but if there's any suspicion he is, then have him examined like Lupul .

Lou Lamoriello has been accused of this fishy business before, when he was in New Jersey with Brian Rolston ........ so maybe now the chickens are coming home to roost?


https://www.thestar.com/s...terious-ways-feschuk.html
D0PPELGANGER
Ottawa Senators
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 05.06.2015

Sep 22 @ 9:38 AM ET
Lupul being cleared to play won't be a cap problem. Sorry d0pps
- Tumbleweed



That's not what I heard on local sports talk radio yesterday, and this morning ........ just saying.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Sep 22 @ 9:40 AM ET
Lupul being cleared to play won't be a cap problem. Sorry d0pps
- Tumbleweed


I agree.

It is the image as cheaters that is more upsetting to the front office.

I believe that this is really more about the Hawks and the Leafs have just got caught in a bad moment.

Bettman will use this as leverage to stop some practices that the western clubs are furious about.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Sep 22 @ 9:41 AM ET
That's not what I heard on local sports talk radio yesterday, and this morning ........ just saying.
- D0PPELGANGER

Imagine living in a world where facts are available, and you don't have to rely on people's opinions.
senstroll
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Sep 22 @ 9:41 AM ET
You better slow down that bus.

Lamerello already lost a 1st round pick for cheating.

Bettman slapped him really hard for trying to circumvent the cap through a questionable contract move.

- spatso


But NJ didnt end up losing it.

that was fishy from the start when NJ chose not to give up the 29th pick since there was no chance it would be lower.

Lou has been caught a few times for poop..Leaf fans make him out to be some wizard..but he doesnt get away with poop all the time
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