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Forums :: NHL Talk :: WHO is in a better situation: LEAFS or SENS?
Author Message
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Sep 19 @ 6:00 AM ET
I agree about Jaros. I thought he was the Sens best D-man tonight. He looked really good. Chabot, on the other hand, was only meh, in my opinion.

I did think Dermott played better than them but, I too, was focused more on the Leafs prospects, like Sens fans were on their prospects.

- GreatGigInTheSky



Whoa, let's not get carried away. Chabot ended the night +3, he logged big ice time. This kid is a player. Jaros stood out because he does not have Chabot's expectations.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Sep 19 @ 6:16 AM ET
dude, pre-season.

The Leafs were missing 6 of their top 9 forwards.

Chabot looked good. I think Jaros is intriguing, seems to have the size and mobility. I don't see Englund or Harpur being more than 3rd pairing, at best.

Chabot and Jaros didn't look better than Liljegren or Dermott.

I think the only thing Leafs fans will be concerned about is backup goaltending. I have never thought Sparks was any good and McBackup looked awful. They may need to do something there.

- Aetherial


This is why the rest of the league laughs at and ridicules Leaf fans. At least, look at the numbers and game situations. To suggest Liljegren or Dermott played as well as Chabot and Jaros is feeble.

This is why I keep telling you the scoreboard matters. Look at the numbers. The Leaf D was a huge fail on the evening. To say anything else is denial.

Reilly and Hainsey are not a top pairing.

It is fine to say Leaf defense needs some work. Everybody knows it is preseason. But the notion the Lilgegren played as well as Chabot is just plain goofy. Chabot was +3 on the night.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Sep 19 @ 6:25 AM ET
Pretty impressed with Liljergen this game. Most dynamic defender on the ice.
- Feeling Glucky?


Oh God. This is pathetic. Why do you do this to the kid? Lilgegren played okay. His skating is good, his puck sense is good. But to impose on him the burden of an expectation going forward that he become the "most dynamic" Dman on the ice is ludicrous.

This is not unlike Leaf fans insisting in Jake Gardner they have their own Erik Karlsson. More sad than funny.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Sep 19 @ 6:29 AM ET
Why? They're both offensive D-men who struggle in their own end.

Only difference is that Liljegren was drafted 2 years after Chabot.

- GreatGigInTheSky


Chabot is a strong defender. +3 on the night.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Sep 19 @ 6:37 AM ET
The guy is idiot who knows nothing about hockey.

That's why

- Tumbleweed



Hey slow down. It is just the first game of the exhibition season. Way too soon for you to be losing your kool.

Leafs, we already know, have problems with their blue line.

Thought Phaneuf did a solid job in keeping Sens young rookie D on track last night.

I wonder if the Leafs don't need a guy like Phaneuf to help stabilize their young guys playing D. I may be wrong. But, seems to me that Morgan Reilly has struggled ever since he had to assume more responsibility.

spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Sep 19 @ 6:39 AM ET
It is entirely delightful to have hockey back.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Sep 19 @ 6:49 AM ET
Toronto Star this morning on Babcock post game.

"He wasn’t all that happy with Matthews and William Nylander, the two goal scorers.

“They were okay,” said Babcock. “I expect them to be dominant two ways, not just to be dominant with the puck.”

I don't think the problem is Matthews or Nylander. I think the problem is a weak back end that other teams will try to exploit every night.

burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tavares is sledge hockey level - Islesrbettr, ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Sep 19 @ 6:57 AM ET

spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Sep 19 @ 7:04 AM ET
dude, pre-season.

The Leafs were missing 6 of their top 9 forwards.

- Aetherial


From this morning's Sun,

"They didn’t exactly beat up on a team of minor-leaguers, either. The Senators had 10 National Hockey League veterans in their lineup, while the Leafs dressed 12.
GreatGigInTheSky
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: "Yeah, Garth is a tool"- Garf, ON
Joined: 06.12.2017

Sep 19 @ 8:04 AM ET
Oh God. This is pathetic. Why do you do this to the kid? Lilgegren played okay. His skating is good, his puck sense is good. But to impose on him the burden of an expectation going forward that he become the "most dynamic" Dman on the ice is ludicrous.

This is not unlike Leaf fans insisting in Jake Gardner they have their own Erik Karlsson. More sad than funny.

- spatso


Literally no one has said this. OK. Maybe Tanner has come close to saying this but he knows as little as you do.
GreatGigInTheSky
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: "Yeah, Garth is a tool"- Garf, ON
Joined: 06.12.2017

Sep 19 @ 8:06 AM ET
Chabot is a strong defender. +3 on the night.
- spatso


No. He is not. And if you think being a +3 suggests that he is, then there's no hope for you.
D0PPELGANGER
Ottawa Senators
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 05.06.2015

Sep 19 @ 8:29 AM ET
I liked Jaros a lot. Need to be very concerned that AHL time for Chabot may not be good development option. He needs to be challenged.

The idea that Lilliput is in a similar class as Chabot is entirely ludicrous. He took the puck on one shift and skated around the perimeter. Silly figure skating move.

- spatso



I've said this numerous times, the Senators already have Seven Defense men, with NHL experience, signed to one way NHL contracts.

The NHL is NOT a development league, the AHL is. Chabot will have to take away a job from one of Karlsson, Ceci or Wideman to play regularly in the NHL.

It was quite obvious, with the hiring of Paul Boutilier, as new Assistant Coach in Belleville, that the Senators plan is for Chabot to "develop" in Belleville this year.




The best place for Chabot (with everyone healthy in Ottawa) is in the AHL, until he shows the can be trusted at the NHL, playing in the Coach's system, and the Senators make a spot available for him.


Now that is the "plan" for Chabot .................. he may or may not stay with the NHL team until Karlsson is ready to return, so unless he wins a job at the NHL level, he will be Belleville bound.

D0PPELGANGER
Ottawa Senators
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 05.06.2015

Sep 19 @ 8:37 AM ET
I agree about Jaros. I thought he was the Sens best D-man tonight. He looked really good. Chabot, on the other hand, was only meh, in my opinion.

I did think Dermott played better than them but, I too, was focused more on the Leafs prospects, like Sens fans were on their prospects.

- GreatGigInTheSky



Jaros has played two seasons in the SHL (61 games total) vs men, and he looked good from Start to finish last night .......... and I agree, was their best D man.

Chabot seemed tentative until the second half of the game.

Did not even notice Colin White, for the first half of the game, until I heard the announcer mention his name......... did not know that he was playing until then.


BTW, have heard the toronto media talking up Rosen? Did not notice him, but so you think he's has the potential the toronto media thinks he has?
Aetherial
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Uh-huh
Joined: 06.30.2006

Sep 19 @ 8:45 AM ET
Don"t worry, you don't care. It is just preseason.
- spatso


about the score, no I don't

about our goaltending? If you had any knowledge before opening your mouth, you would know I have never been a fan of our goaltending. I think it could even be worse than our defense.

See, that is the difference between you and I. You think your team will improve on the fluke of last year with ridiculous reasoning.

I, on the other hand, recognize the good and the bad about the current Leafs team.
Aetherial
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Uh-huh
Joined: 06.30.2006

Sep 19 @ 8:53 AM ET
From this morning's Sun,

"They didn’t exactly beat up on a team of minor-leaguers, either. The Senators had 10 National Hockey League veterans in their lineup, while the Leafs dressed 12.

- spatso




Oh, just so you know, they aren't awarding any pre-season Stanley Cups again this year.

Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Sep 19 @ 8:55 AM ET
Why? They're both offensive D-men who struggle in their own end.

Only difference is that Liljegren was drafted 2 years after Chabot.

- GreatGigInTheSky

Very interesting that Liljergren looked as good or better than Chabot, despite the age difference, and familiarity with small ice.

It's only one game, but still.

There's also the truth that dmen often look better in front of good goaltenders.
Aetherial
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Uh-huh
Joined: 06.30.2006

Sep 19 @ 8:56 AM ET
Jaros has played two seasons in the SHL (61 games total) vs men, and he looked good from Start to finish last night .......... and I agree, was their best D man.

Chabot seemed tentative until the second half of the game.

Did not even notice Colin White, for the first half of the game, until I heard the announcer mention his name......... did not know that he was playing until then.


BTW, have heard the toronto media talking up Rosen? Did not notice him, but so you think he's has the potential the toronto media thinks he has?

- D0PPELGANGER


I didn't notice him really, but I kind of wanted that.

I don't really know what the Leafs think of his potential. It seems like the fanbase here thinks maybe he makes it as a bottom-pairing guy, or the depth D.

Both him and Dermott seemed to play well, not spectacularly, but well. I expect maybe one of them gets a bottom pair role and the other stays in the minors.

Honestly, I think neither of these Swedish guys are more than bottom pairing.

Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Sep 19 @ 8:57 AM ET
From this morning's Sun,

"They didn’t exactly beat up on a team of minor-leaguers, either. The Senators had 10 National Hockey League veterans in their lineup, while the Leafs dressed 12.

- spatso

Yes, the Leafs' depth is such that they can dress more NHLers, even if it's less of their starting line-up.


The Sens team to start the season won't look much different than last night's.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Sep 19 @ 8:58 AM ET
I've said this numerous times, the Senators already have Seven Defense men, with NHL experience, signed to one way NHL contracts.

The NHL is NOT a development league, the AHL is. Chabot will have to take away a job from one of Karlsson, Ceci or Wideman to play regularly in the NHL.

It was quite obvious, with the hiring of Paul Boutilier, as new Assistant Coach in Belleville, that the Senators plan is for Chabot to "develop" in Belleville this year.




The best place for Chabot (with everyone healthy in Ottawa) is in the AHL, until he shows the can be trusted at the NHL, playing in the Coach's system, and the Senators make a spot available for him.


Now that is the "plan" for Chabot .................. he may or may not stay with the NHL team until Karlsson is ready to return, so unless he wins a job at the NHL level, he will be Belleville bound.

- D0PPELGANGER


Boucher is raving today about Ceci. Says he loved his game last night. Wants Ceci to grow his game to become top shut down guy.

You have four top prospects trying to break into line up.

Harpur
Englund
Jaros
Chabot

You have one opening available (Methot). And, a temporary situation with Karlsson. I believe Oduya is #7 on depth chart.

I think Chabot and Jaros start the season in Ottawa.

I believe that either Borowiecki or Wideman get moved when Karlsson returns.




Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Sep 19 @ 8:58 AM ET
Jaros has played two seasons in the SHL (61 games total) vs men, and he looked good from Start to finish last night .......... and I agree, was their best D man.

Chabot seemed tentative until the second half of the game.

Did not even notice Colin White, for the first half of the game, until I heard the announcer mention his name......... did not know that he was playing until then.


BTW, have heard the toronto media talking up Rosen? Did not notice him, but so you think he's has the potential the toronto media thinks he has?

- D0PPELGANGER

Rosen is the less exciting of the Swedish imports, IMO. He plays a much more European game than Borgman(who won the SHL rookie of the year last season), and is a bit older. He looked like a good option as a 3rd pairing PK specialist.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Sep 19 @ 9:00 AM ET
about the score, no I don't

about our goaltending? If you had any knowledge before opening your mouth, you would know I have never been a fan of our goaltending. I think it could even be worse than our defense.

See, that is the difference between you and I. You think your team will improve on the fluke of last year with ridiculous reasoning.

I, on the other hand, recognize the good and the bad about the current Leafs team.

- Aetherial

Our starting goaltending is fine, but beyond that... ugh lets hope Woll develops, and quick.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Sep 19 @ 9:01 AM ET
Oh God. This is pathetic. Why do you do this to the kid? Lilgegren played okay. His skating is good, his puck sense is good. But to impose on him the burden of an expectation going forward that he become the "most dynamic" Dman on the ice is ludicrous.

This is not unlike Leaf fans insisting in Jake Gardner they have their own Erik Karlsson. More sad than funny.

- spatso

I didn't suggest that he'll become that, only that he was, last night, in a preseason game.

The fact that you have so little to go on that you need to rely on strawmen arguments... is pretty normal for the two of you, actually.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Sep 19 @ 9:02 AM ET

Did not even notice Colin White, for the first half of the game, until I heard the announcer mention his name......... did not know that he was playing until then.

- D0PPELGANGER

Any update on him, btw?

Never want to see a player get injured in preseason, especially prospects.
Aetherial
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Uh-huh
Joined: 06.30.2006

Sep 19 @ 9:02 AM ET
Very interesting that Liljergren looked as good or better than Chabot, despite the age difference, and familiarity with small ice.

It's only one game, but still.

There's also the truth that dmen often look better in front of good goaltenders.

- Feeling Glucky?


Defensemen also look better when they aren't facing anywhere near the full forward corps of the opponent.

List each team's missing IMPACT forwards (We could list missing 4th liners all day, but who cares)

Ottawa: Turris (I am probably missing someone here?)

Toronto Marner, Kadri, Bozak, JVR, Marleau, Komarov


Somehow Spazzo, and the Ottawa Sun concludes that the teams iced the same strength lineup relative to the expected NHL lineup.


D0PPELGANGER
Ottawa Senators
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 05.06.2015

Sep 19 @ 9:05 AM ET
I didn't notice him really, but I kind of wanted that.

I don't really know what the Leafs think of his potential. It seems like the fanbase here thinks maybe he makes it as a bottom-pairing guy, or the depth D.

Both him and Dermott seemed to play well, not spectacularly, but well. I expect maybe one of them gets a bottom pair role and the other stays in the minors.

Honestly, I think neither of these Swedish guys are more than bottom pairing.

- Aetherial



Jaros is a Slovakian, and I fully expect him to make the NHL, as a regular, after at least one season in the AHL, maybe two.
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