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Forums :: NHL Talk :: WHO is in a better situation: LEAFS or SENS?
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Aetherial
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Uh-huh
Joined: 06.30.2006

Jul 3 @ 7:44 PM ET
Marleau is 38, Dominic Moore is 38 and Ron Haninsey is 36 on opening day. Generally I am supportive of the Shanaplan. But, I don't understand this move to post prime players.

Are the Leafs going backwards with these signings?

- spatso


Good lord.

They are veteran players who are there to play specific roles. for a LIMITED TIME that does NOT INTERFERE with any drafting, developing, contract plans etc.

Moore is a good 4th liner, replaces Boyle, very short term deal

Hainsey is basically replacing Hunwick, holding down a D spot so the young kids can develop, properly... something you are about to find out is actually necessary.

Marleau is still a productive player, WAY overpaid, but doesn't damage future plans. AND he makes JVR expendable. So, they can continue to shop JVR for a D upgrade but not lose anything on the offensive side. To be honest, they could probably keep, and extend JVR also... or decide they want him around next year and let him walk, or let him go as a rental at the deadline if things don't pan out this season.

They ALL have lots of playoff experience.

So... just please, you and whoever, STFU and give it some thought before you post your idiocy. Learn about the CBA, Salary Cap, contracts etc.
systemtool
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Real men always have to poo, ON
Joined: 09.12.2007

Jul 3 @ 7:45 PM ET
Hey, dough head, was Bobby Ryan over 35 when he signed is contract?

Inform yourself as to the difference, and maybe you'll stop looking like an empty-headed fool ............ or perhaps you are one.


do some reading before you dig your stupidity hole any deeper


http://www.colliganhockey...l-cba-35-older-contracts/


https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/wiki/contracts

- D0PPELGANGER


Rattled. Phaneuf and Ryan are going to give do00ps a stroke.
systemtool
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Real men always have to poo, ON
Joined: 09.12.2007

Jul 3 @ 7:47 PM ET
and there's the proof
- D0PPELGANGER



Youre trying so hard. Wipe the tears son. And the snot.


Your eyes before your nose. I feel you needed that final instruction
Aetherial
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Uh-huh
Joined: 06.30.2006

Jul 3 @ 7:47 PM ET
They're not out from under the Marleau anchor.......... an anchor that cannot be taken off the books for three seasons.

No one is going to trade for him, as you suggested, when he's 40 freaking years old ............. besides, he has a COMPLETE NMC in his contract.

Marleau's anchor of a contract makes Dion's look like a Helium filled balloon!.

- D0PPELGANGER


Jesus, read the CBA, look at the Leafs cap situation.

Here's a better idea, spend your time wondering how the F you are going to re-sign Karlsson AND ice a decent team when you have like 15 million at least in BAD contracts... Oh, and learn the difference between a cap team and a budget team.

D0PPELGANGER
Ottawa Senators
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 05.06.2015

Jul 3 @ 7:48 PM ET
Let me walk you through this. Marleau is going to play for two seasons, and personally I think he'll fit in well. He'll retire the summer before the last season of his contract begins, unless you truly believe he is going to play for 1 mil over the last season. His contract will then be traded to a bottom feeding cap floor team like Arizona or Ottawa or Vegas. Teams that will benefit from a high cap hit with zero payout.

And if he doesn't retire, then the Leafs don't resign Bozak or JVR and slide in players like Kapanen and Bracco for less money and ride out the last season of his 6 mil cap hit.

Need me to break that down even further?

- BetterCallSaul




Yeah, expalin to me why you think his contract is structured to pay him only 1 Million in the last season .............. when it's been clearly reported, documented and easily found to be $4.250 million .................besides, even if he retired two minutes from now, his contract stays on the books for three seasons at a 6.25 cap hit.



What is it that you don't understand about players, 35 years and older, signing these anchor type contract?
BetterCallSaul
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Captain Morgan Rielly
Joined: 05.07.2013

Jul 3 @ 7:49 PM ET
Jesus, read the CBA, look at the Leafs cap situation.

Here's a better idea, spend your time wondering how the F you are going to re-sign Karlsson AND ice a decent team when you have like 15 million at least in BAD contracts... Oh, and learn the difference between a cap team and a budget team.

- Aetherial

I haven't even thought about Karlsson's next contract. What do you expect to see there? 11 Mil per season?
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tavares is sledge hockey level - Islesrbettr, ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Jul 3 @ 7:49 PM ET
Hey, dough head, was Bobby Ryan over 35 when he signed is contract?

Inform yourself as to the difference, and maybe you'll stop looking like an empty-headed fool ............ or perhaps you are one.


do some reading before you dig your stupidity hole any deeper


http://www.colliganhockey...l-cba-35-older-contracts/


https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/wiki/contracts

- D0PPELGANGER


What the hell.
Aetherial
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Uh-huh
Joined: 06.30.2006

Jul 3 @ 7:52 PM ET
Yeah, expalin to me why you think his contract is structured to pay him only 1 Million in the last season .............. when it's been clearly reported, documented and easily found to be $4.250 million .................besides, even if he retired two minutes from now, his contract stays on the books for three seasons at a 6.25 cap hit.



What is it that you don't understand about players, 35 years and older, signing these anchor type contract?

- D0PPELGANGER


Dude, until you show you know something about the Leafs cap situation or plans, just STFU. Go read a spreadsheet, do some math. Marleau's contract is inconsequential to the future of the team. He is here for some punch and veteran leadership and playoff experience NOW and the extra dollars the Leafs were willing to pay in return for not giving up assets to get him.

Instead...

Explain how do you re-sign Karlsson and manage to ice a competitive team.
Aetherial
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Uh-huh
Joined: 06.30.2006

Jul 3 @ 7:54 PM ET
I haven't even thought about Karlsson's next contract. What do you expect to see there? 11 Mil per season?
- BetterCallSaul


Even with a hometown discount it has to be 10.

McDavid will get his 13, Matthews Laine Eichel will come in around 10.5 to 11, Who knows with Nylander and Marner if they are so good that they command 10 also then that is a good problem to have.

The Sens will pay Karlsson. It is literally the end of their franchise if they let him walk. How the F do they ice a competitive team though.
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tavares is sledge hockey level - Islesrbettr, ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Jul 3 @ 7:57 PM ET
Yeah, expalin to me why you think his contract is structured to pay him only 1 Million in the last season .............. when it's been clearly reported, documented and easily found to be $4.250 million .................besides, even if he retired two minutes from now, his contract stays on the books for three seasons at a 6.25 cap hit.



What is it that you don't understand about players, 35 years and older, signing these anchor type contract?

- D0PPELGANGER



Did you not just chastise someone for not knowing and told them to learn?

Maybe you should do you're own research better you moron. He's getting 1mil base salary in the final year, bonus paid jully1, base salary for final year 1mil. After he's paid the bonus on July 1, some team gladly take him and pay him a mil for the 6.25mil cap hit.

Educate yourself before talking poop about others.

Way to make yourself look stupid.
systemtool
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Real men always have to poo, ON
Joined: 09.12.2007

Jul 3 @ 7:58 PM ET
Even with a hometown discount it has to be 10.

McDavid will get his 13, Matthews Laine Eichel will come in around 10.5 to 11, Who knows with Nylander and Marner if they are so good that they command 10 also then that is a good problem to have.

The Sens will pay Karlsson. It is literally the end of their franchise if they let him walk. How the F do they ice a competitive team though.

- Aetherial



Maybe Ryan and Phaneuf can loan Melnyk a few thousand bucks to improve the Sens and sign Karlsson. They have and make more than he does anyways.
systemtool
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Real men always have to poo, ON
Joined: 09.12.2007

Jul 3 @ 7:59 PM ET
Did you not just chastise someone for not knowing and told them to learn?

Maybe you should do you're own research better you moron. He's getting 1mil base salary in the final year, bonus paid jully1, base salary for final year 1mil. After he's paid the bonus on July 1, some team gladly take him and pay him a mil for the 6.25mil cap hit.

Educate yourself before talking poop about others.

Way to make yourself look stupid.

- burn


Hes just having his routine meltdown. Ive heard its hard to cry, type and think all at the same time.
Tumbleweed
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: avid reader of the daily douche news
Joined: 03.14.2014

Jul 3 @ 7:59 PM ET
Even with a hometown discount it has to be 10.

McDavid will get his 13, Matthews Laine Eichel will come in around 10.5 to 11, Who knows with Nylander and Marner if they are so good that they command 10 also then that is a good problem to have.

The Sens will pay Karlsson. It is literally the end of their franchise if they let him walk. How the F do they ice a competitive team though.

- Aetherial


Between ek, ryan and phanoof, they'll effectively have $25m tied up in one player
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tavares is sledge hockey level - Islesrbettr, ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Jul 3 @ 8:02 PM ET
Hes just having his routine meltdown. Ive heard its hard to cry, type and think all at the same time.
- systemtool



Can't wait to see how he tries to justify now.
BetterCallSaul
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Captain Morgan Rielly
Joined: 05.07.2013

Jul 3 @ 8:02 PM ET
Yeah, expalin to me why you think his contract is structured to pay him only 1 Million in the last season .............. when it's been clearly reported, documented and easily found to be $4.250 million .................besides, even if he retired two minutes from now, his contract stays on the books for three seasons at a 6.25 cap hit.



What is it that you don't understand about players, 35 years and older, signing these anchor type contract?

- D0PPELGANGER

It's all signing bonuses bud. The contract is worth 18.75 mil, but 14.5 mil is owed in signing bonuses due on July 1 each year. That means there is only 4.25 mil in actual salary over the whole contract. The last season he is owed 4.25 mil, but 3 mil is the signing bonus, so his NHL salary over the last season would only be 1.25 mil. Which is what I said, more or less.

And you're right, his cap hit will still be 6.25 mil during the last season, very astute of you. So July 2, 2019 he will only be owed 1.25 mil of the original 18.75. So you have a contract with a yield of 6.25, but a payout of 1.25, or 0 if he retires. Pretty enticing to cap floor teams. See Datsyuk and Pronger's contracts. Internal cap teams will have incentive to take the contract if Marleau retires.

And here, you were right, the contract was really easy to find.
https://www.capfriendly.c...m/players/patrick-marleau
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Jul 3 @ 8:31 PM ET
Need to win that cup in the next two seasons, because when Matthews needs a new contract, they'll have to break up the team to pay him.

When are they going to find the Cap space to bring in 2 or 3 quality D Men, in the next two seasons, as the Marleau cap hit is preventing that from happening???? Are they planning on the Cap going 10 Million for next season?

Just a quick look at the leafs cap for next season, they're already over the cap by $1.68 Million, and have yet to sign a couple of RFAs.

So it looks like the leafs "window" is in the process of closing, unless LL can pull a rabbit out of his ass.

- D0PPELGANGER

It's amazing how after all these years, idiots like you still struggle with the concept of LTIR.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Jul 3 @ 8:33 PM ET
It's all signing bonuses bud. The contract is worth 18.75 mil, but 14.5 mil is owed in signing bonuses due on July 1 each year. They means there is only 4.25 mil in actual salary over the whole contract. The last season he is owed 4.25 mil, but 3 mil is the signing bonus, so his NHL salary over the last season would only be 1.25 mil. Which is what I said, more or less.

And you're right, his cap hit will still be 6.25 mil during the last season, very astute of you. So July 2, 2019 he will only be owed 1.25 mil of the original 18.75. So you have a contract with a yield of 6.25, but a payout of 1.25, or 0 if he retires. Pretty enticing to cap floor teams. See Datsyuk and Pronger's contracts. Internal cap teams will have incentive to take the contract if Marleau retires.

And here, you were right, the contract was really easy to find.
https://www.capfriendly.c...m/players/patrick-marleau

- BetterCallSaul


Leafs have dumped Clarkson and Phaneuf on teams with no chance of competing for the cup, and without retaining salary. They have a history of finding suckers to take on cap problems when they arise.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Jul 3 @ 8:35 PM ET
Dude, until you show you know something about the Leafs cap situation or plans, just STFU. Go read a spreadsheet, do some math. Marleau's contract is inconsequential to the future of the team. He is here for some punch and veteran leadership and playoff experience NOW and the extra dollars the Leafs were willing to pay in return for not giving up assets to get him.

Instead...

Explain how do you re-sign Karlsson and manage to ice a competitive team.

- Aetherial

Not a concern for Melnyk.
systemtool
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Real men always have to poo, ON
Joined: 09.12.2007

Jul 3 @ 8:53 PM ET
Leafs have dumped Clarkson and Phaneuf on teams with no chance of competing for the cup, and without retaining salary. They have a history of finding suckers to take on cap problems when they arise.
- Feeling Glucky?



and lupul and robidas just magically vanishing among many others...
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Jul 4 @ 6:58 AM ET
Should we be surprised? This moron arguing with me about dermott, said he was a year older and a different draft year than chabot even though they were born a little over a month apart and in the same draft year.

This idiot has no clue about anything regarding hockey. Totally clueless.

- burn


How am I supposed to know about Dermott? He is riding the bench while Chabot is playing number 1 pair during his first trip to the WJC and logging over 40 minutes a game and being named MVP on his second trip. I really have no idea about who Dermott is. I read about Chabot everyday in every hockey publication.

Sorry but I just don't think. anybody believes your guy is a part of the serious discussion
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Jul 4 @ 7:02 AM ET
Let me walk you through this. Mbarleau is going to play for two seasons, and personally I think he'll fit in well. He'll retire the summer before the last season of his contract begins, unless you truly believe he is going to play for 1 mil over the last season. His contract will then be traded to a bottom feeding cap floor team like Arizona or Ottawa or Vegas. Teams that will benefit from a high cap hit with zero payout.

And if he doesn't retire, then the Leafs don't resign Bozak or JVR and slide in players like Kapanen and Bracco for less money and ride out the last season of his 6 mil cap hit.

Need me to break that down even further?

- BetterCallSaul


Explain it all you want. Every hockey writer is saying this was dumbest move of UFA signings. I actually think Radulov by Dallas was worse. But, whatever, you guys have to live with it.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Jul 4 @ 7:04 AM ET
and lupul and robidas just magically vanishing among many others...
- systemtool


Right. The Leafs are now counting on the Fairies to help them out. Good luck with that as well
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tavares is sledge hockey level - Islesrbettr, ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Jul 4 @ 7:25 AM ET
How am I supposed to know about Dermott? He is riding the bench while Chabot is playing number 1 pair during his first trip to the WJC and logging over 40 minutes a game and being named MVP on his second trip. I really have no idea about who Dermott is. I read about Chabot everyday in every hockey publication.

Sorry but I just don't think. anybody believes your guy is a part of the serious discussion

- spatso



Riding the bench?


Do you routinely make comments about things you don't know?

Of course not, why would they think they're similar when their stats are similar (with one playing in a better league) and similar when on the same team. But yeah they're not close
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tavares is sledge hockey level - Islesrbettr, ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Jul 4 @ 7:28 AM ET
Explain it all you want. Every hockey writer is saying this was dumbest move of UFA signings. I actually think Radulov by Dallas was worse. But, whatever, you guys have to live with it.
- spatso




EVery single one eh? Sounds like a bit of hyperbole......

So jealous
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Jul 4 @ 7:38 AM ET
How am I supposed to know about Dermott? He is riding the bench while Chabot is playing number 1 pair during his first trip to the WJC and logging over 40 minutes a game and being named MVP on his second trip. I really have no idea about who Dermott is. I read about Chabot everyday in every hockey publication.

Sorry but I just don't think. anybody believes your guy is a part of the serious discussion

- spatso


but surelybyou can't believe that the 8th best prospect group in the league, a group featuring the best defense prospect in the world, plus solid other d prospects like dermott and nielsen, has nothing on a group like the turds, who arent even ranked in the top 10?
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