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Forums :: NHL Talk :: WHO is in a better situation: LEAFS or SENS?
Author Message
systemtool
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Real men always have to poo, ON
Joined: 09.12.2007

Jul 3 @ 11:01 AM ET
Not really.

What Pierre Dorion has explained is that goal scoring is the special talent that every scout searches out. The other thing they look at is the kind of goals that get scored. But, most important they monitor skill progression.

What is impressive about Puemple is not just that he scored 30 goals but it is how and where they were scored. He only scored 7 goals in the first half of the season and 23 in the 2nd half. This is the kind of progression that suggests the kid has another gear and might be able to duplicate the same result at the next level. Dorion is huge believer in Puemple.
- spatso


summer talk
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tavares is sledge hockey level - Islesrbettr, ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Jul 3 @ 11:02 AM ET
summer talk
- systemtool


Good call really nailed that one.

systemtool
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Real men always have to poo, ON
Joined: 09.12.2007

Jul 3 @ 11:02 AM ET
This is an important point. I have always thought the Toronto media had way too much influence in the Leaf decision making. The media creates a theme, they pump the theme and everyone comes to believe in the theme because nobody wants to break the story line.

I believe the Austin Matthews story is a prime example of a runaway theme. Matthews was not even close to being the best player in the draft after Christmas. Both Finns were clearly better and had it not been for the media pumping his story as the Leafs first overall selection he would have dropped to third or fourth. Simply, everyone had too much invested into the storyline too pull back on the story everyone (including fans) wanted to see.

Anyway it will be apparent once the season starts that Matthews (a good player) does not punch in the same class as the Finns. Leaf fans will likely be discouraged. But, I don't think anyone will figure it out. They will wonder why everyone missed on Laine and they will blame Leaf management. They will miss on the pervasive influence the media has on Leaf management decisions.

- spatso


summer talk
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Jul 3 @ 11:03 AM ET
Except even after they lost methot to the expansion draft hey still tried to get rid of him.
- burn


I thought they should keep them both. Need to understand how deep Sens are in defensive prospects.

Dorion said last week Chabot can have the same impact as Werenski had for Columbus this past year
systemtool
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Real men always have to poo, ON
Joined: 09.12.2007

Jul 3 @ 11:03 AM ET
When Matthews struggles you will remain silent. When the Leafs languish in last place, well out of the playoffs by December you will remain silent.

Your still trying to pretend that Karlsson is not a prodigy, a truly gifted player.

I understand that your attacks on Edmonton players in the past and now Ottawa players in all about deflecting attention from the overall failure of the Leafs. Well, get ready, you are headed to another year of futility.

- spatso



summer talk
systemtool
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Real men always have to poo, ON
Joined: 09.12.2007

Jul 3 @ 11:04 AM ET
Just read comment that the Leafs are trying to squeeze Matthews off of his entitled bonus package as a first overall pick. Sounds awfully dumb to me.
- spatso



summer talk
systemtool
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Real men always have to poo, ON
Joined: 09.12.2007

Jul 3 @ 11:05 AM ET
This is not what you want to talk about. The Toronto based hockey media pumped Matthews all the way to #1. Now we hear people starting to back away and talk about Laine as the likely Calder favourite. What is wrong with these guys?
- spatso



summer talk
systemtool
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Real men always have to poo, ON
Joined: 09.12.2007

Jul 3 @ 11:05 AM ET
I thought they should keep them both. Need to understand how deep Sens are in defensive prospects.

Dorion said last week Chabot can have the same impact as Werenski had for Columbus this past year

- spatso



summer talk
systemtool
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Real men always have to poo, ON
Joined: 09.12.2007

Jul 3 @ 11:05 AM ET
That is my point. It was not a consensus. Even in the TSN survey two scouts shifted to Laine as their 1st overall pick. But the Leafs were way too deep into Matthews to move off their earlier plan. Too bad.
- spatso



summer talk
systemtool
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Real men always have to poo, ON
Joined: 09.12.2007

Jul 3 @ 11:06 AM ET
It was a controlled time series survey. Two scouts was a huge shift in the base. Headline kept the Matthews pump in place causing some people to believe he was the consensus pick. but if you checked in the body of the story it was apparent that the consensus had been downgraded. Laine had all the momentum coming into the draft. But way too much credibility had been spent on Matthews. He is a good hockey player and he will be fine. But Leafs will regret not taking the superstar.
- spatso



summer talk
systemtool
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Real men always have to poo, ON
Joined: 09.12.2007

Jul 3 @ 11:06 AM ET
No, don't doubt me. I like Matthews, he is a #1 centre and an important addition. But, Laine is the scorer and after the fact there is a lot more buzz about the impact of Laine next year. I believe that if the #1 pick was not being hyped by the Toronto Sports Network that Laine would have been the number one pick.
- spatso



summer talk
systemtool
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Real men always have to poo, ON
Joined: 09.12.2007

Jul 3 @ 11:07 AM ET
It is too bad that we did not have more of a chance to talk about this prior to the draft. You know there will be loud howls if Laine jumps off to a big start. Fans will need to be reminded that they support their choice.
- spatso



summer talk
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tavares is sledge hockey level - Islesrbettr, ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Jul 3 @ 11:08 AM ET
I thought they should keep them both. Need to understand how deep Sens are in defensive prospects.

Dorion said last week Chabot can have the same impact as Werenski had for Columbus this past year

- spatso



They could have kept both if wanted to, they clearly wanted out from both

Oh good Dorian said.


How does chabot match up age wise and draft class wise with werenski?
systemtool
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Real men always have to poo, ON
Joined: 09.12.2007

Jul 3 @ 11:08 AM ET
My comments have more to do with temperament and the Leaf fans reaction to what is likely going to be their worse seasons in franchise history. I think most fans will be fine as long as they see a blueprint for growth. But, if Laine lights it up, some will become very unhappy and bitter.
- spatso



summer talk
systemtool
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Real men always have to poo, ON
Joined: 09.12.2007

Jul 3 @ 11:09 AM ET
Right! 10 years of futility and headed for another last place finish. Leafs are about where Edmonton was five years ago at this time. No reason to think path is any different for Leafs.
- spatso



summer talk
systemtool
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Real men always have to poo, ON
Joined: 09.12.2007

Jul 3 @ 11:09 AM ET
Yes, we followed all these make me feel better stories for the Oilers fora bunch of years. It is all about feeding the faithful a little hope so they are not discouraged.

Nobody wants to read about another year of last place hockey.

- spatso



summer talk
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Jul 3 @ 11:10 AM ET
They could have kept both if wanted to, they clearly wanted out from both

Oh good Dorian said.


How does chabot match up age wise and draft class wise with werenski?

- burn


I think Dorion was talking rookie ballotting
systemtool
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Real men always have to poo, ON
Joined: 09.12.2007

Jul 3 @ 11:11 AM ET
The new Leaf model: finish last, repeat.
- spatso



summer talk
systemtool
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Real men always have to poo, ON
Joined: 09.12.2007

Jul 3 @ 11:12 AM ET
Way too rich, the irony only gets better after some reflection.

The Leafs were a last place team. The Leafs are a last place team.

Matthews is not McDavid or Eichal or perhaps, even Laine or Puljujarvi. Yet Leaf fans have created this huge expectation around a kid that was not nearly the force of the Finns on the big stages of international hockey last year.

Not sure why the Leafs have delayed in signing him to a contract. Perhaps they think he is going to need some AHL development time. Nobody is hoping against Matthews, he should be a good player. But, there is absolutely nothing in his track record that suggests he will be an impact player in the NHL next year. Perhaps, there is a fatal flaw in the Leaf charism. If Matthews is put out head to head against veteran NHL centres every night and fans expect him to outperform all comers it is going to be a very long and disappointing winter for the blue and white.

I understand the importance of the summer season for Leaf fans. It is an opportunity to renew hope and create a bond with the team in the belief that next year will see the Leafs finally triumph. It is the Oiler model of a few years ago that had Yakupov (like Matthews, an older profile draft pick) dominating scoring in future NHL seasons or RNH being the slickest centre to come along in years.

Always keep in mind the notion that "we are different," is something that is really well understood. We know Matthews is not McDavid, not even close. We want to believe that he is better than Yakupov. Likely he is in the same range as RNH, but he will likely struggle to produce numbers as good as RNH got in his rookie year (18 goals, 34 assists in 64 games).

- spatso


summer talk
systemtool
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Real men always have to poo, ON
Joined: 09.12.2007

Jul 3 @ 11:13 AM ET
Leafs=Last Place

But we understand that the Leafs are having a great summer season. Talk is really at the best level in years.

- spatso



summer talk
systemtool
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Real men always have to poo, ON
Joined: 09.12.2007

Jul 3 @ 11:14 AM ET
I see the Leaf summer hot air show has been in overdrive all day.

Did you check the standings from the end of the season? Are the Leafs still in last place?

But, Leaf fans are having a very strong summer run. The consensus opinion is that the Leafs are the big summer winners. It is so much better when you get to play without the scoreboard.

- spatso



summer tall
systemtool
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Real men always have to poo, ON
Joined: 09.12.2007

Jul 3 @ 11:18 AM ET
Truth is an elusive word and usually the product of someone's perception of reality.

If I say that the truth is clear that Laine is the best prospect drafted...it is only a perceived truth by me. Others have believe a different truth.

- spatso



summer talk
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tavares is sledge hockey level - Islesrbettr, ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Jul 3 @ 12:11 PM ET
I think Dorion was talking rookie ballotting
- spatso



So 3rd in a weaker rookie class?

walshyleafsfan
Vancouver Canucks
Location: I really don't care about Nylander, I really hope he gets injured and is out - Makita
Joined: 07.14.2011

Jul 3 @ 12:33 PM ET
https://www.google.ca/amp...r-the-2017-draft.amp.html

Interesting.

Especially with the youth the Leafs already have in the lineup
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Jul 3 @ 12:35 PM ET
Marleau??? very interesting signing.

Marleau is an amazing player. has been one the most underrated in the league over the years imo.

if the leafs are just signing him to boost their offense then I'm not a fan of the move. he's 38 years old.

however, if this opens the door to trading bozak and/or JVR for even more picks and prospects then it's brilliant.
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