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Forums :: NHL Talk :: WHO is in a better situation: LEAFS or SENS?
Author Message
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Feb 5 @ 11:46 AM ET
There's a lot of hype riding on that site for sure, but for a ranking at the beginning of the year having Yaks, Schultz, Nurse and Klefbom there isn't that inflammatory is it?
- Morris

Schultz as high as he is kind of is.
Morris
Referee
Edmonton Oilers
Location: Hall looks disengaged, NS
Joined: 07.18.2007

Feb 5 @ 12:08 PM ET
Schultz as high as he is kind of is.
- Feeling Glucky?

At the beginning of the year? Not a chance. The guys scored 1.5 PPG in the AHL and then added 27 in 48 as a rookie.

As of right now, it's clear that he has a lot of work to do in his own end, and part of that is simply becoming stronger. I'd say though that if Edmonton had more defensive depth and he was in the AHL likely putting up well over a PPG and playing weaker competition, these deficiencies wouldn't be as prominent. Heck, if he were playing 3rd pairing minutes it would go a long way. It's not like we've discovered some major flaw in his game as much as he's been thrown to the wolves by coaching/management.

I dunno we might need to agree to disagree there. He's a young PMD on a bad team.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Feb 5 @ 12:27 PM ET
At the beginning of the year? Not a chance. The guys scored 1.5 PPG in the AHL and then added 27 in 48 as a rookie.

As of right now, it's clear that he has a lot of work to do in his own end, and part of that is simply becoming stronger. I'd say though that if Edmonton had more defensive depth and he was in the AHL likely putting up well over a PPG and playing weaker competition, these deficiencies wouldn't be as prominent. Heck, if he were playing 3rd pairing minutes it would go a long way. It's not like we've discovered some major flaw in his game as much as he's been thrown to the wolves by coaching/management.

I dunno we might need to agree to disagree there. He's a young PMD on a bad team.

- Morris

Yea, but everybody could see that he was feasting on the young scoring forwards the team had.

There's no doubt that he's skilled, mind you, but I don't think he deserves to be above some of the guys that he is. And I don't think he deserved to be, either.
Morris
Referee
Edmonton Oilers
Location: Hall looks disengaged, NS
Joined: 07.18.2007

Feb 5 @ 12:46 PM ET
Yea, but everybody could see that he was feasting on the young scoring forwards the team had.

There's no doubt that he's skilled, mind you, but I don't think he deserves to be above some of the guys that he is. And I don't think he deserved to be, either.

- Feeling Glucky?

It was a stacked AHL team for sure. But It's tough to say that what Schultz gains in the advantage of good scoring linemates he doesn't lose more in the disadvantage of bad everything else teammates. Besides, if things were easy street last year, then him putting up relatively similar totals (higher concentration of ES points) while being forced into a #1 role should be pretty impressive, no?

Compared to guys like Murray and Trouba, I'll agree they're playing pretty well and should like be (or have been) higher comparatively. But of course each had a higher draft pedigree than guys like Schultz and Brodin, so it's tough to say that that has much to do with hype.

When you're talking about prospects 11-50 on a top 50, there's a ton of orders you can put them in. It's almost just reader-bait for them to pretend there's a substantial difference between Nichuskin(11th) and Chris Kreider (43rd)

And don't get me started on their ABC 1-10 system. That's the worst part about the site.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Feb 6 @ 1:56 PM ET
Pretty good depth at all positions. Rielly is obviously the gem of the bunch, but Holland, Leivo, D'Amigo have all looked good in both the NHL and AHL this season. Verhaege, Finn, Andersson, and Brown have been outstanding in their leagues... so far they seem to be outpacing where they were drafted, but we'll have to wait and see.
- Feeling Glucky?



Meh, the forward prospect group is pretty much just depth of depth. Leivo may have second line upside, at best, but he's really the only guy that has that sort of upside. Verhaege and Connor Brown, as outside shots. The Leafs have a lot of decent forwards, but not a single A list guy. They'd easily be in the lower half of the league, looking solely at forward prospects. Bottom ten even. But they'd easily be top 10 in D prospects. Percy and Finn both have top 4, potentially top line pairing two way Dman potential. Not franchise guys at all, but both solid prospects. Granberg is also top level shutdown prospect. Absolute rock. Apparently a standout in the world championships last year. That means SFA for a pro player, but for a 20 year old prospect, that's awesome. And Tom Nilsson was also considered one of Sweden's best at the WJHC last year. Haven't heard much of his progress this year, but there were a lot of scouting reports coming out of the world juniors last year saying this kid is a top prospect.

Crappy forwards, great D. overall decent, not spectacular prospects.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Feb 6 @ 3:40 PM ET
Meh, the forward prospect group is pretty much just depth of depth. Leivo may have second line upside, at best, but he's really the only guy that has that sort of upside. Verhaege and Connor Brown, as outside shots. The Leafs have a lot of decent forwards, but not a single A list guy. They'd easily be in the lower half of the league, looking solely at forward prospects. Bottom ten even. But they'd easily be top 10 in D prospects. Percy and Finn both have top 4, potentially top line pairing two way Dman potential. Not franchise guys at all, but both solid prospects. Granberg is also top level shutdown prospect. Absolute rock. Apparently a standout in the world championships last year. That means SFA for a pro player, but for a 20 year old prospect, that's awesome. And Tom Nilsson was also considered one of Sweden's best at the WJHC last year. Haven't heard much of his progress this year, but there were a lot of scouting reports coming out of the world juniors last year saying this kid is a top prospect.

Crappy forwards, great D. overall decent, not spectacular prospects.

- prock

Are you including Holland in this?

I think he's a pretty sure bet for a future top-6er.

And Andreas Johnsson's 2nd in his team for goals, behind only another 19 year old, who was taken in the 1st round of the same year(and has more games played).
Not too shabby for a 19 year old playing in a pro league.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Feb 6 @ 3:47 PM ET
Are you including Holland in this?

I think he's a pretty sure bet for a future top-6er.

And Andreas Johnsson's 2nd in his team for goals, behind only another 19 year old, who was taken in the 1st round of the same year(and has more games played).
Not too shabby for a 19 year old playing in a pro league.

- Feeling Glucky?



Nah, didn't really think of holland. He's not really an A list guy either though. Andreas Johnsson is one of those hit or miss guys. low probably of making it, but if he does, he could be a solid scoring forward. Again, none of these are top prospects. Not a single one. Honestly, the Leafs are near the bottom of the league in terms of forward prospects.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Feb 6 @ 3:50 PM ET
Nah, didn't really think of holland. He's not really an A list guy either though. Andreas Johnsson is one of those hit or miss guys. low probably of making it, but if he does, he could be a solid scoring forward. Again, none of these are top prospects. Not a single one. Honestly, the Leafs are near the bottom of the league in terms of forward prospects.
- prock

Like I said, the gem of the prospect pool is Rielly, I don't see any A level guys...

but we've got a lot of boom/bust type guys at forward but no "can't miss" top line guys, though I'd see Leivo and Holland as close to "sure-thing" top-6ers as you can get with prospects.

Luckily, we have enough talent at the NHL level, that these guys will be able to take their time to develop properly
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Feb 6 @ 3:54 PM ET
Like I said, the gem of the prospect pool is Rielly, I don't see any A level guys...

but we've got a lot of boom/bust type guys at forward but no "can't miss" top line guys, though I'd see Leivo and Holland as close to "sure-thing" top-6ers as you can get with prospects.

Luckily, we have enough talent at the NHL level, that these guys will be able to take their time to develop properly

- Feeling Glucky?



yeah, it's fine. The Leafs needs are on D, and they're stacked there, in terms of prospects, so it's no big deal. I can see a trade for Franson going down, which will free up cap space, with Granberg taking his spot.

They're in a pretty great spot cap-wise. The forwards are mostly locked in, so no raises to give out. And still young. Most of the important D are locked up too. Any prospects coming in on D will enable them to move out guys like Franson, not only improving the team, but the cap situation too. They're set up quite nicely.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Feb 6 @ 3:54 PM ET
Like I said, the gem of the prospect pool is Rielly, I don't see any A level guys...

but we've got a lot of boom/bust type guys at forward but no "can't miss" top line guys, though I'd see Leivo and Holland as close to "sure-thing" top-6ers as you can get with prospects.

Luckily, we have enough talent at the NHL level, that these guys will be able to take their time to develop properly

- Feeling Glucky?




Any thoughts on Teemu Hartikainen or Cameron Abney?
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Feb 6 @ 3:56 PM ET
Any thoughts on Teemu Hartikainen or Cameron Abney?
- Doppleganger



Will never play in the NHL most likely.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Feb 6 @ 3:58 PM ET
Will never play in the NHL most likely.
- prock


So essentially the trade was to free up cap space for this season?
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Feb 6 @ 4:06 PM ET
So essentially the trade was to free up cap space for this season?
- Doppleganger


Potentially. He was going on waivers otherwise. Help out the marlies? Doesn't really matter.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Feb 6 @ 4:18 PM ET
Any thoughts on Teemu Hartikainen or Cameron Abney?
- Doppleganger

Teemu may play in a similar capacity to Komarov, Abney's nothing.

Leafs traded contract space for cap space.
Morris
Referee
Edmonton Oilers
Location: Hall looks disengaged, NS
Joined: 07.18.2007

Feb 6 @ 4:19 PM ET
Any thoughts on Teemu Hartikainen or Cameron Abney?
- Doppleganger

My sense is that he'd have to work very hard to be a significant NHLer but not very hard to remain a solid enough KHL guy. Maybe he comes back.

And I think rather than him being a 35 point crash and bang guy like the oilers hoped, he'd likely be a 20 point guy who scores 3 highlight reel goals a year and doesn't use his size to capability. Very tantalizing but ultimately not a difference maker.

Abney is of course a warm body.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Feb 6 @ 6:19 PM ET
Teemu may play in a similar capacity to Komarov, Abney's nothing.

Leafs traded contract space for cap space.

- Feeling Glucky?

I'm pretty sure neither are under contract and therefore don't occupy a contract spot. And also have zero cap impact.
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Boyle > Marleau :dopes, ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Feb 6 @ 6:22 PM ET
I'm pretty sure neither are under contract and therefore don't occupy a contract spot. And also have zero cap impact.
- prock



Hartikinen is not under contract, Abney is (RFA this summer).
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Feb 6 @ 6:41 PM ET
Hartikinen is not under contract, Abney is (RFA this summer).
- burn


He has an AHL or NHL contract? He was in the ECHL. I didn't think he had an NHL one.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Feb 6 @ 8:04 PM ET
He has an AHL or NHL contract? He was in the ECHL. I didn't think he had an NHL one.
- prock

I thought they were both on 2-way NHL contracts
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Boyle > Marleau :dopes, ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Feb 7 @ 7:25 AM ET
He has an AHL or NHL contract? He was in the ECHL. I didn't think he had an NHL one.
- prock



NHL contract..... capgeek.


It doesn;'t matter where he plays. that doesn't determine his contract.
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Boyle > Marleau :dopes, ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Feb 7 @ 7:26 AM ET
I thought they were both on 2-way NHL contracts
- Feeling Glucky?



Abney is, Hartikinein is the same as Kormorov. No contract but leafs still retain his rights for now.
Morris
Referee
Edmonton Oilers
Location: Hall looks disengaged, NS
Joined: 07.18.2007

Feb 7 @ 7:31 AM ET
Abney is, Hartikinein is the same as Kormorov. No contract but leafs still retain his rights for now.
- burn

Abney's ELC is up this summer I think. The Oilers Org wasn't going to re-sign him. It all depends on whether you need an ECHL face-puncher.
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Boyle > Marleau :dopes, ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Feb 7 @ 7:33 AM ET
Abney's ELC is up this summer I think. The Oilers Org wasn't going to re-sign him. It all depends on whether you need an ECHL face-puncher.
- Morris



It is indeed...... I don't think they do need one, certainly not one on an NHL deal.
Morris
Referee
Edmonton Oilers
Location: Hall looks disengaged, NS
Joined: 07.18.2007

Feb 7 @ 7:35 AM ET
It is indeed...... I don't think they do need one, certainly not one on an NHL deal.
- burn

I'd imagine taking on an extra contract was part of the deal of being able to send away Fraser's salary.

Sort of a teeny-tiny win-win move. Although Fraser's been predictably pretty poor with us.
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Boyle > Marleau :dopes, ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Feb 7 @ 7:38 AM ET
I'd imagine taking on an extra contract was part of the deal of being able to send away Fraser's salary.

Sort of a teeny-tiny win-win move. Although Fraser's been predictably pretty poor with us.

- Morris



and it ends this summer, so no biggie.



Has he really been that bad??? I figured as much.
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