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Forums :: NHL Talk :: WHO is in a better situation: LEAFS or SENS?
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Tumbleweed
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: they are going to add the two best players outside the nhl (chabot and white) -spatso
Joined: 03.14.2014

Feb 9 @ 12:22 PM ET
Can you provide a source for that? I feel like I hear this kind of crap all the time.

A quick google finds this. Here is the Bleacher report. They have him at 19 going into the 2014/15 season.

http://bleacherreport.com...ects-after-the-2014-draft

That would be around his peak as a prospect wouldn't it?

I feel like people of your ilk do this alot. I don't think Lazar was really anywhere close to a top 5 NHL prospect. You did this with him, and probably think your current prospects are top 5 too.

edit -
NHL.com has 16.

https://www.nhl.com/news/...top-60-prospects/c-729391

- prock


I think spatso has brown, white and chabot as 3 of the top 2 prospects not in the nhl.


burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Boyle > Marleau :dopes, ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Feb 9 @ 12:24 PM ET
except that most projections had lazar ranked as a top 5 prospect (not currently playing in the NHL).........he obviously hasn't lived up to the expectation but it doesn't change the fact that at the time those statements were made he was one of the highest ranked prospects in the league.
- sensarmy_11



Huh? Who?
systemtool
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Real men always have to poo, ON
Joined: 09.12.2007

Feb 9 @ 12:36 PM ET
Most of the media are expecting significant changes to the Leaf roster and behind the bench. I do not expect a lot of change. My guess is they will try to package Phaneuf but will not find a dance paertner.
- spatso


systemtool
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Real men always have to poo, ON
Joined: 09.12.2007

Feb 9 @ 12:37 PM ET
Every team has a bad contract or, at least one, they wish were different. In the case of the Leafs the Clarkson and Phaneuf deals are very pricey and really cuts down on their options this off season.
- spatso


prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Feb 9 @ 12:37 PM ET
Huh? Who?
- burn



In fairness, I didn't mean I hear that from Sens fans all the time. Various fan bases. Certain members of them anyway.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Feb 9 @ 12:40 PM ET


poor systemtool............it must be rough man, having so little going on in your life that you have time to go back through 4 years and 400 pages of posts.

and I have NO DOUBT that there are no outrageous, idiotic, or mistaken posts by any leaf fans.............you guys are always right about everything and never make outlandish claims. I mean if history has shown us anything it's that the world of hockey never changes, if players are good one day they're guaranteed to be just as good or better 3 years later......there is no progression or regression in hockey.


- sensarmy_11


Hmm, never seen you post something like this when Dopps quotes 3-year old posts.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Feb 9 @ 12:48 PM ET
People who only look at analytics, and don't actually watch the team in question play their games, THINK they know how that team is playing..........based 100% on stats and analytics.

This could NOT be further from the truth. Stats and analytics might reflect mildly at best on how a team played during one game, here and there.......... but because of the randomness of hockey, a lot of people, in hockey, don't put to much stock in analytics .


Analytics work well in a structured game like baseball, but in hockey, not so much.

- D0PPELGANGER

Took two random page clicks to find this.


I guess I should post this every time he posts one of those shot graphs... though the shot location charts are funny too.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Feb 9 @ 1:07 PM ET
When was the last time a team won a cup with a winger leading the way?

Teams that win the Cup almost always have a strong high scoring, two way Center to lead them.

2014 Anze Kopitar
2013 Jonathan Toews
2012 Anze Kopitar
2011 David Krejci
2010 Jonathan Toews
2009 Sidney Crosby
2008 Pavel Datsyuk
2007 Ryan Getzlaf
2006 Eric Staal
2004 Brad Richards

Just the last 10 Cups...........

- Doppleganger

Looks like the Leafs are in good company.
senstroll
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Feb 9 @ 1:09 PM ET
Looks like the Leafs are in good company.
- Feeling Glucky?


I love that Krejci is listed for Boston...Bergeron did all the heavy lifting for them..he is basically the best C in the NHL since 2010

prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Feb 9 @ 1:29 PM ET


poor systemtool............it must be rough man, having so little going on in your life that you have time to go back through 4 years and 400 pages of posts.

and I have NO DOUBT that there are no outrageous, idiotic, or mistaken posts by any leaf fans.............you guys are always right about everything and never make outlandish claims. I mean if history has shown us anything it's that the world of hockey never changes, if players are good one day they're guaranteed to be just as good or better 3 years later......there is no progression or regression in hockey.


- sensarmy_11



To be fair, you can pretty much find stuff like this on almost any page you click on, in this thread.

It's really not hard to "search" for it.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Feb 9 @ 1:32 PM ET
I love that Krejci is listed for Boston...Bergeron did all the heavy lifting for them..he is basically the best C in the NHL since 2010
- senstroll





He's good. But best in the NHL? No. Best defensive centre? I'd agree. Best overall? no. That's Crosby, pretty easily in my opinion.
sensarmy_11
Ottawa Senators
Location: If Ottawa traded ryan for clarkson sens would need to add a pick - Prock, NS
Joined: 06.01.2009

Feb 9 @ 1:42 PM ET
Huh? Who?
- burn


top 5 was probably an exaggeration, pronman had him ranked 14th....this article compares him to Patrice Bergeron....

http://thehockeywriters.c...anadian-patrice-bergeron/

my point was that there were a ton of people outside of Ottawa who felt he was a top end prospect.
sensarmy_11
Ottawa Senators
Location: If Ottawa traded ryan for clarkson sens would need to add a pick - Prock, NS
Joined: 06.01.2009

Feb 9 @ 1:43 PM ET
To be fair, you can pretty much find stuff like this on almost any page you click on, in this thread.

It's really not hard to "search" for it.

- prock


funny coming from you......pretty sure if I "searched' I'd find quotes from you stating that phaneuf was a top 10 d-man in the league, that if you were a GM of a team you wouldn't take karlsson for free

if there is one person, other than spatso, on this site who shouldn't be criticizing ANYONE for idiotic posts it's you
Not_Yan
St Louis Blues
Location: it's an excellent product, easier, quicker, and even better than real mashed potatoes.
Joined: 04.19.2013

Feb 9 @ 2:09 PM ET

SENS
D0PPELGANGER
Ottawa Senators
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 05.06.2015

Feb 9 @ 2:43 PM ET
Took two random page clicks to find this.


I guess I should post this every time he posts one of those shot graphs... though the shot location charts are funny too.

- Feeling Glucky?




Wow, you don't think there's been shot graphs until recently? Shot Location charts and graph heave been around for decades........... heck I remember an interview of Scotty Bowman, and he used them.
D0PPELGANGER
Ottawa Senators
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 05.06.2015

Feb 9 @ 2:44 PM ET
Looks like the Leafs are in good company.
- Feeling Glucky?



talk to us once they vastly improve their defensive corps.
senstroll
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Feb 9 @ 2:44 PM ET


He's good. But best in the NHL? No. Best defensive centre? I'd agree. Best overall? no. That's Crosby, pretty easily in my opinion.

- prock


ok ill give you Crosby...but you get the point.. he is #2 then
senstroll
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Feb 9 @ 2:45 PM ET
Pronman release his top 50 prospects.. anyone have access to see it?
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Boyle > Marleau :dopes, ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Feb 9 @ 2:53 PM ET
top 5 was probably an exaggeration, pronman had him ranked 14th....this article compares him to Patrice Bergeron....

http://thehockeywriters.c...anadian-patrice-bergeron/

my point was that there were a ton of people outside of Ottawa who felt he was a top end prospect.

- sensarmy_11



You happen to know where pronman had nylander rated?
Tumbleweed
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: they are going to add the two best players outside the nhl (chabot and white) -spatso
Joined: 03.14.2014

Feb 9 @ 3:02 PM ET
Pronman release his top 50 prospects.. anyone have access to see it?
- senstroll


no, but:

9. Thomas Chabot
13. Colin White
22. Kasperi Kapanen
26. Logan Brown
37. Jeremy Bracco
50. Brendan Leipsic
Goalies:
7. Joseph Woll

SENS
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Feb 9 @ 3:12 PM ET
funny coming from you......pretty sure if I "searched' I'd find quotes from you stating that phaneuf was a top 10 d-man in the league,

- sensarmy_11


Top 10? No, never argued that at all. I did say that he was better than most thought, and he was facing the toughest competition, and zone starts, in the entire league.

You realize that was roughly 2010 though? He was in his prime. By the end of his time as a Leaf, He was getting relegated down through the lines. He hadn't had the most Even Strength Time on ice in about 3 or 4 years. First, Gardiner started to get more time, then Rielly was getting more time than Phaneuf. IIRC, in his last year, both Rielly AND Gardiner got more ES time than Phaneuf. His role on the Leafs was diminishing, along with his production, and he was past his prime by the end of his tenure in Toronto.

Nearly every Leaf fan wanted him gone by the time he was traded. He had regressed, slowed down, role diminished, so far that he was no longer of any value to the team whatsoever.

Stop trying to compare 2017 Dion Phaneuf with 2010 Phaneuf. It's silly.

that if you were a GM of a team you wouldn't take karlsson for free

- sensarmy_11


Correct. I wouldn't. Unless I were allowed to turn around and trade him. If I could have him for free, but were forced to keep him and play him as my number 1, hands down, no, I turn it down.

I stand by that.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Feb 9 @ 3:13 PM ET
ok ill give you Crosby...but you get the point.. he is #2 then
- senstroll


Well I don't think he's number 2 either. But yes, I get the point, and agree, he's pretty f*&king good.
sensarmy_11
Ottawa Senators
Location: If Ottawa traded ryan for clarkson sens would need to add a pick - Prock, NS
Joined: 06.01.2009

Feb 9 @ 3:20 PM ET
Top 10? No, never argued that at all. I did say that he was better than most thought, and he was facing the toughest competition, and zone starts, in the entire league.

You realize that was roughly 2010 though? He was in his prime. By the end of his time as a Leaf, He was getting relegated down through the lines. He hadn't had the most Even Strength Time on ice in about 3 or 4 years. First, Gardiner started to get more time, then Rielly was getting more time than Phaneuf. IIRC, in his last year, both Rielly AND Gardiner got more ES time than Phaneuf. His role on the Leafs was diminishing, along with his production, and he was past his prime by the end of his tenure in Toronto.

Nearly every Leaf fan wanted him gone by the time he was traded. He had regressed, slowed down, role diminished, so far that he was no longer of any value to the team whatsoever.

Stop trying to compare 2017 Dion Phaneuf with 2010 Phaneuf. It's silly.



Correct. I wouldn't. Unless I were allowed to turn around and trade him. If I could have him for free, but were forced to keep him and play him as my number 1, hands down, no, I turn it down.

I stand by that.

- prock


To the Phaneuf issue.......you said that in like 2013, and he was never in his prime in toronto.

To the 2nd issue......thank you for proving my point for me, you do in fact have no leg to stand on when calling people or their posts idiotic
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Feb 9 @ 3:36 PM ET
To the Phaneuf issue.......you said that in like 2013, and he was never in his prime in toronto.

- sensarmy_11


2013 is still 4 years ago. He was 27. He's almost 32 years old now. Do you realize how much players slow down at this age?

There's no point in even comparing those two.


To the 2nd issue......thank you for proving my point for me, you do in fact have no leg to stand on when calling people or their posts idiotic

- sensarmy_11


You can call it idiotic all you want. I firmly believe he will never be a number one dman for a Stanley Cup winning team. That's my opinion. Even if he were traded to another organization. Still no.
Crimsoninja
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: the arena with no parking
Joined: 07.06.2007

Feb 9 @ 3:37 PM ET
I am back in here again
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