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Forums :: NHL Talk :: WHO is in a better situation: LEAFS or SENS?
Author Message
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Feb 6 @ 10:04 AM ET
They've won 3 fewer games than the division leader, and have played 4 fewer games ....... so they must be doing something right.

Buffalo seemed like the larger team, and their defensive zone game was a result of that. Ottawa could have used Chris Neil on the fore-check, but was a healthy scratch.

Condon also seems to be close to running on empty, after 28 straight appearances ........ at least the warning light's on.

There are some optimistic reports that Anderson might just be ready to play by Saturday, but I think the 14th is a little more realistic.

- D0PPELGANGER

It is actually very odd that they're as high as they are. Awful Corsi, but without the high PDO to make up for it. Not a very impressive team when I watch them play.

I wouldn't be surprised if they regress massively, but hey, sometimes teams beat expectations in the regular season.

I for one hope the Leafs get matched up against them in the post season.
D0PPELGANGER
Ottawa Senators
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 05.06.2015

Feb 6 @ 11:22 AM ET
It is actually very odd that they're as high as they are. Awful Corsi, but without the high PDO to make up for it. Not a very impressive team when I watch them play.

I wouldn't be surprised if they regress massively, but hey, sometimes teams beat expectations in the regular season.

I for one hope the Leafs get matched up against them in the post season.

- Feeling Glucky?


If Sens and leafs finish in the top three spots of their division, they should be two off the weakest teams in their conference, to make the playoffs. If they face each other in the first round, one is assured of making it to the second round.

Now, if I read the playoff format (below) correctly, and if the Ontario teams finish 2nd & 3rd in their division, the winner (of that series) will play the winner of the series between the First place team in the Division & one of the WC teams for the Divisional Championship and a berth in the Conference finals.





NHL.com
In the First Round, the division winner with the best record in each conference will be matched against the wild-card team with the lesser record; the wild card team with the better record will play the other division winner.

The teams finishing second and third in each division will meet in the First Round within the bracket headed by their respective division winners. First-round winners within each bracket play one another in the Second Round to determine the four participants in the Conference Finals.


Aetherial
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: you cant say Lehner is a bumb -BigDog912
Joined: 06.30.2006

Feb 6 @ 3:44 PM ET
Wow, SpatsDopp owned as hard as Tanner gets regularly.
Aetherial
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: you cant say Lehner is a bumb -BigDog912
Joined: 06.30.2006

Feb 6 @ 3:45 PM ET
I watched the game, Lehner had to make a great saves .......... one the best games I've seen him play since he was traded. If he can stay healthy, and keep his temper under control, he'll do well as their starter.

BTW, Eichel is one hell of a player, man can he skate well.

- D0PPELGANGER


He has actually become underrated since Marner and Matthews are the new shiny thing in the league.

prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Feb 6 @ 4:21 PM ET
He has actually become underrated since Marner and Matthews are the new shiny thing in the league.
- Aetherial



He's a good player. I'd take him over Marner, as much as I love Marner. IMO, Matthews is better, and it would be an easy decision for me between the two, but you can't really decide on that based on this year, because of the ankle sprain. I think he's somewhere between Marner and Eichel, next year will tell us which one he's closer to.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Feb 6 @ 8:13 PM ET
He's a good player. I'd take him over Marner, as much as I love Marner. IMO, Matthews is better, and it would be an easy decision for me between the two, but you can't really decide on that based on this year, because of the ankle sprain. I think he's somewhere between Marner and Eichel, next year will tell us which one he's closer to.
- prock

Honestly, that play that he just made... the way he takes over a shift is elite-level. And that's in his rookie season.

It's no slight to Eichel to say Marner might be better.
systemtool
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Real men always have to poo, ON
Joined: 09.12.2007

Feb 6 @ 8:21 PM ET
Honestly, that play that he just made... the way he takes over a shift is elite-level. And that's in his rookie season.

It's no slight to Eichel to say Marner might be better.

- Feeling Glucky?



One thing is for sure. Neither are Lazar. And for them that's a great thing.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Feb 6 @ 8:31 PM ET
One thing is for sure. Neither are Lazar. And for them that's a great thing.
- systemtool

Yea but have you considered that Laine is the greatest Sen of all time?
systemtool
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Real men always have to poo, ON
Joined: 09.12.2007

Feb 6 @ 8:49 PM ET
Yea but have you considered that Laine is the greatest Sen of all time?
- Feeling Glucky?



Never even crossed my mind. Im not saying Lazar is better I'm just curious why nobody even wants to discuss it.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Feb 6 @ 9:09 PM ET
Never even crossed my mind. Im not saying Lazar is better I'm just curious why nobody even wants to discuss it.
- systemtool

I don't know why Senators fans don't want to talk more about how Griffin Rienhart is better than Karlsson.

I'm not saying he is, but it's a discussion that should be had because he definitely is.
D0PPELGANGER
Ottawa Senators
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 05.06.2015

Feb 7 @ 8:46 AM ET
I don't know why Senators fans don't want to talk more about how Griffin Rienhart is better than Karlsson.

I'm not saying he is, but it's a discussion that should be had because he definitely is.

- Feeling Glucky?



Is there anyone of the current leaf defensive corp that you can suggest is an above average D man........... or any prospect in the system that is projected to be?
senstroll
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Feb 7 @ 9:04 AM ET
Is there anyone of the current leaf defensive corp that you can suggest is an above average D man........... or any prospect in the system that is projected to be?
- D0PPELGANGER


Thats the great thing about D..they are next to impossible to project

there is no doubt in anyones mind right now (sens fans) Chabot will be an impact player..is 100% better than Dermott or Neilson ..but in 3 years that can change.

in 2009 Cowan was better than picks #55, 64, 106 ..but not now, its not even close
Hell even pick 100 Chris Wideman is a better NHL player now


prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Feb 7 @ 9:13 AM ET
Thats the great thing about D..they are next to impossible to project

there is no doubt in anyones mind right now (sens fans) Chabot will be an impact player..is 100% better than Dermott or Neilson ..but in 3 years that can change.

in 2009 Cowan was better than picks #55, 64, 106 ..but not now, its not even close
Hell even pick 100 Chris Wideman is a better NHL player now

- senstroll


I wouldn't say next to impossible. more difficult.

I, for one, am quite happy with a player like Nielsen, who has been lights out in a professional league. I find that more encouraging than some of the players in the same draft doing well against kids.
D0PPELGANGER
Ottawa Senators
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 05.06.2015

Feb 7 @ 9:17 AM ET
Thats the great thing about D..they are next to impossible to project

there is no doubt in anyones mind right now (sens fans) Chabot will be an impact player..is 100% better than Dermott or Neilson ..but in 3 years that can change.

in 2009 Cowan was better than picks #55, 64, 106 ..but not now, its not even close
Hell even pick 100 Chris Wideman is a better NHL player now

- senstroll



Using Cowen as an example is poor ........... you don't seem to remember that he suffered a season ending hip injury in October of 2012, that required surgery and he never really was the same player after that.

So poor example, to try and make the point that Chabot might not be as good as predicted .......... Do you remember Gord Kluzak?
senstroll
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Feb 7 @ 9:32 AM ET
Using Cowen as an example is poor ........... you don't seem to remember that he suffered a season ending hip injury in October of 2012, that required surgery and he never really was the same player after that.

So poor example, to try and make the point that Chabot might not be as good as predicted .......... Do you remember Gord Kluzak?

- D0PPELGANGER


ok well use one of the 10-15 D that went before pick #64 as an example then that are nobodys ..or use Luke Schenn

the NHL is littered with these stories, WJC heroes who flame out in the NHL and 3- 5th rounders who are playing top 4 mins





senstroll
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Feb 7 @ 9:33 AM ET
I wouldn't say next to impossible. more difficult.

I, for one, am quite happy with a player like Nielsen, who has been lights out in a professional league. I find that more encouraging than some of the players in the same draft doing well against kids.

- prock


I would say next to impossible .. basically draft as many D as you can and hope for the best
D0PPELGANGER
Ottawa Senators
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 05.06.2015

Feb 7 @ 10:05 AM ET
ok well use one of the 10-15 D that went before pick #64 as an example then that are nobodys ..or use Luke Schenn

the NHL is littered with these stories, WJC heroes who flame out in the NHL and 3- 5th rounders who are playing top 4 mins

- senstroll




The point being, is that you're claiming that "Sens Fans" think 100% that Chabot is going to be a NHL star, or whatever ............. but your basing it only on ONE Sens fan, Spatso.

Anyone with a modicum of NHL historical understanding, knows you have to wait and see if a Prospect who has shown great promise at the Junior Level, the WJC level and even at the AHL level .......... plays at the NHL level, for a couple or more seasons before knowing what you have in that player.

Don't make the mistake assuming Spatso is representative of all Sens fans, more than you are representative of all leaf fans.

Spatso famously said that "Shane Prince" was the steal of the 2011 draft" ... and so far that does not seem to be the fact he insisted it was at the time.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Feb 7 @ 10:43 AM ET
I would say next to impossible .. basically draft as many D as you can and hope for the best
- senstroll



If that were the case, you wouldn't find more D drafted the first round vs second, second vs 3rd, etc. You'd basically find almost as many D in the 7th round as you do in the first.

But that's not true. Not remotely close to true. Top D are certainly a LITTLE more sporadic than top forwards. But nowhere near the extent to which you're suggesting.

I mean, the best dman in the league was drafted at 2nd overall (although slumping). Hedman at 2nd overall, OEL at 6th. Morgan Rielly at 5, Hampus Lindholm at 6, Trouba shortly thereafter.

I think I would articulate it this way. You still find lots of top dman at the top of the draft. But the rate of complete busts is probably a little higher for dman in the first round.

I suspect that could be a numbers game too though. There are 180ish spots for Dmen in the NHL. There are 400ish spots for forwards.
walshyleafsfan
Vancouver Canucks
Location: Liljegren tanked to get the Leafs
Joined: 07.14.2011

Feb 7 @ 10:43 AM ET
Is there anyone of the current leaf defensive corp that you can suggest is an above average D man........... or any prospect in the system that is projected to be?
- D0PPELGANGER

Victor Hedman. Just as Laine is integral to the Sens, Hedman is integral to the Leafs
golfingsince
Location: The losers tonight are the people.-QP
Joined: 11.30.2011

Feb 7 @ 10:48 AM ET
If that were the case, you wouldn't find more D drafted the first round vs second, second vs 3rd, etc. You'd basically find almost as many D in the 7th round as you do in the first.

But that's not true. Not remotely close to true. Top D are certainly a LITTLE more sporadic than top forwards. But nowhere near the extent to which you're suggesting.

I mean, the best dman in the league was drafted at 2nd overall (although slumping). Hedman at 2nd overall, OEL at 6th. Morgan Rielly at 5, Hampus Lindholm at 6, Trouba shortly thereafter.

I think I would articulate it this way. You still find lots of top dman at the top of the draft. But the rate of complete busts is probably a little higher for dman in the first round.

I suspect that could be a numbers game too though. There are 180ish spots for Dmen in the NHL. There are 400ish spots for forwards.

- prock


Maybe the craziest thing is that Seth Jones dropped because people can be hesitant to select D at the top.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Feb 7 @ 10:51 AM ET
Maybe the craziest thing is that Seth Jones dropped because people can be hesitant to select D at the top.
- golfingsince


I'm not sure Seth Jones is the best example. He's hardly an elite dman, and the forwards taken ahead of him are no slouch. It's not like he'd go first overall if the draft were done over (I do'nt think anyway).
golfingsince
Location: The losers tonight are the people.-QP
Joined: 11.30.2011

Feb 7 @ 10:57 AM ET
I'm not sure Seth Jones is the best example. He's hardly an elite dman, and the forwards taken ahead of him are no slouch. It's not like he'd go first overall if the draft were done over (I do'nt think anyway).
- prock


I think he would. At 22 years old he's playing 23-24 minutes a night, #1 D on a top team. He's on pace for about 50 points.

He's going to become a Norris winner.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Feb 7 @ 11:01 AM ET
I think he would. At 22 years old he's playing 23-24 minutes a night, #1 D on a top team. He's on pace for about 50 points.

He's going to become a Norris winner.

- golfingsince



Think so? I wouldn't rule it out, but I'm not so sure. He's a great dman no doubt. I just don't think there is a clear guy that would go number 1 out of those first 4 draft picks.
golfingsince
Location: The losers tonight are the people.-QP
Joined: 11.30.2011

Feb 7 @ 11:04 AM ET
Think so? I wouldn't rule it out, but I'm not so sure. He's a great dman no doubt. I just don't think there is a clear guy that would go number 1 out of those first 4 draft picks.
- prock


If you remember Jones dropped down to 4. He was rated 1 or 2 all season.

We all know for the most part it takes D longer to develop, especially the big kids.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Feb 7 @ 11:07 AM ET
If you remember Jones dropped down to 4. He was rated 1 or 2 all season.

We all know for the most part it takes D longer to develop, especially the big kids.

- golfingsince



I absolutely remember. And I agree, he's developed into a very good dman. I'm just reluctant to say Norris winner at this point. I don't really see that just yet.
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