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Forums :: NHL Talk :: WHO is in a better situation: LEAFS or SENS?
Author Message
sensarmy_11
Ottawa Senators
Location: If Ottawa traded ryan for clarkson sens would need to add a pick - Prock, NS
Joined: 06.01.2009

Dec 22 @ 10:33 AM ET
so, in tyring to prove your point posted a list including 2 players now in the nhl and 2 other guys progressing in there career.

le sigh

the reason for leafs only having as many player as the sens this year, and not more are:

- Of players drafted in the last 2 years, Korshkov, dermott and Nielsen are too old for the WJC. They would all likely be there if not.

- Marner and Mathews are in the NHL. Mathews’ inclusion would likely see L.Brown lose his 4th line role and probably completely dropped off the roster.

So, I’m not too worried. Especially when you name junk prospects like chaplik, enhglund and perron as your reason why the sens have a strong prospect pool.

- Tumbleweed


So is it important or not.....you say it's not but then try to defend why the Leafs have nobody there despite having "so many great prospects".

You seem to be tripping over your own varied and contradictory arguments......
Tumbleweed
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Xizord : I am Eklund
Joined: 03.14.2014

Dec 22 @ 10:36 AM ET
So is it important or not.....you say it's not but then try to defend why the Leafs have nobody there despite having "so many great prospects".

You seem to be tripping over your own varied and contradictory arguments......

- sensarmy_11


it is simply short-sighted to use only the wjc rosters which aren't inclusive of all prospects.

i guess this simple concept is far too difficult for you to understand.
senstroll
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Dec 22 @ 10:38 AM ET
Not to mention their overpaid Goaltender, with a 5 Million cap hit for the following 4 seasons ......... probably hampers the "Sign Tavares" part of the re-build plan.
- D0PPELGANGER


you probably want to check the Leafs cap situation before saying dumb stuff

Also Andersen is your go to chirp? I was not a big fan of the trade and signing..but have you looked at his numbers? he has like 5 games in his last 20 where he was under .915 sv%

sensarmy_11
Ottawa Senators
Location: If Ottawa traded ryan for clarkson sens would need to add a pick - Prock, NS
Joined: 06.01.2009

Dec 22 @ 10:39 AM ET
it is simply short-sighted to use only the wjc rosters which aren't inclusive of all prospects.

i guess this simple concept is far too difficult for you to understand.

- Tumbleweed


But it wasn't shortsighted last year when you had lots of guys......got it.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Dec 22 @ 10:40 AM ET
What else? Couple of decent prospects in Rychel and Kapanen.......congrats, decent forwards, zero defense, and inconsistent goaltending........YOU'RE THE OILERS. 10 more years of mediocrity.
- sensarmy_11



Kapanen > White, Chabot, Brown.
senstroll
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Dec 22 @ 10:41 AM ET
But it wasn't shortsighted last year when you had lots of guys......got it.
- sensarmy_11



How many players do the Sens have at wjc?

Leafs have 4 I think
Tumbleweed
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Xizord : I am Eklund
Joined: 03.14.2014

Dec 22 @ 10:44 AM ET
But it wasn't shortsighted last year when you had lots of guys......got it.
- sensarmy_11


Tumbleweed
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Xizord : I am Eklund
Joined: 03.14.2014

Dec 22 @ 10:54 AM ET
brown cut from team USA



sensarmy_11
Ottawa Senators
Location: If Ottawa traded ryan for clarkson sens would need to add a pick - Prock, NS
Joined: 06.01.2009

Dec 22 @ 11:03 AM ET
brown cut from team USA




- Tumbleweed


Doesn't matter......you said it's shortsighted and unimportant.

Oh wait, sens prospect doesent make team due to missing most of season with an injury.......it's important again.
Tumbleweed
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Xizord : I am Eklund
Joined: 03.14.2014

Dec 22 @ 11:04 AM ET
Doesn't matter......you said it's shortsighted and unimportant.

Oh wait, sens prospect doesent make team due to missing most of season with an injury.......it's important again.

- sensarmy_11


you seem rattled.
sensarmy_11
Ottawa Senators
Location: If Ottawa traded ryan for clarkson sens would need to add a pick - Prock, NS
Joined: 06.01.2009

Dec 22 @ 11:06 AM ET
you seem rattled.
- Tumbleweed



I was wondering when you'd go to "rattled". You haven't used it 7 times yet today, I was starting to wonder.
Tumbleweed
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Xizord : I am Eklund
Joined: 03.14.2014

Dec 22 @ 11:13 AM ET
I was wondering when you'd go to "rattled". You haven't used it 7 times yet today, I was starting to wonder.
- sensarmy_11


That’s cool. That news clearly rattled your cage.

I don’t blame you for being rattled.

It does suck finding out your #10 overall from last year is already a bust. Didn’t even take until Christmas to find out.
sensarmy_11
Ottawa Senators
Location: If Ottawa traded ryan for clarkson sens would need to add a pick - Prock, NS
Joined: 06.01.2009

Dec 22 @ 11:30 AM ET
That’s cool. That news clearly rattled your cage.

I don’t blame you for being rattled.

It does suck finding out your #10 overall from last year is already a bust. Didn’t even take until Christmas to find out.

- Tumbleweed


wow......that's weak. Normally your troll game is so strong as evidenced by your one and only "go to".........you're right, I'm so rattled.
Tumbleweed
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Xizord : I am Eklund
Joined: 03.14.2014

Dec 22 @ 11:35 AM ET
wow......that's weak. Normally your troll game is so strong as evidenced by your one and only "go to".........you're right, I'm so rattled.
- sensarmy_11


guess you picked the wrong day to troll leafs' prospects.

#2016draftbusts
sensarmy_11
Ottawa Senators
Location: If Ottawa traded ryan for clarkson sens would need to add a pick - Prock, NS
Joined: 06.01.2009

Dec 22 @ 11:39 AM ET
guess you picked the wrong day to troll leafs' prospects.

#2016draftbusts

- Tumbleweed


weak......you must be rattled too.
Tumbleweed
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Xizord : I am Eklund
Joined: 03.14.2014

Dec 22 @ 11:40 AM ET
weak......you must be rattled too.
- sensarmy_11


2016 draft bust list:

Brown, Logan









/list
Crimsoninja
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Show me specifically what I said and how that is not consistent with what I said earlier.
Joined: 07.06.2007

Dec 22 @ 11:47 AM ET
Brown, white, chabot, chaplik, Englund, hogberg, perron........they're fine
- sensarmy_11

never heard of any of them
twiztedmike
Toronto Maple Leafs
Joined: 10.06.2007

Dec 22 @ 11:50 AM ET
never heard of any of them
- Crimsoninja

prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Dec 22 @ 12:08 PM ET
Doesn't matter......you said it's shortsighted and unimportant.

Oh wait, sens prospect doesent make team due to missing most of season with an injury.......it's important again.

- sensarmy_11



didn't make the team because he's not good enough.
Tumbleweed
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Xizord : I am Eklund
Joined: 03.14.2014

Dec 22 @ 12:18 PM ET
didn't make the team because he's not good enough.
- prock


Classic… the good ol’ injury card. Dipping into the typical sens fan bag of overused tricks.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Dec 22 @ 12:22 PM ET
Clearly.....I mean you have all those big name prospects playing in the WJC......oh wait, I think you have like a backup goalie for the US and a bottom pairing guy for Sweden.

You have the big 3 and then a couple of 21 or 22 year olds who MIGHT be decent nhl players.

- sensarmy_11



The Leafs have a few guys in the WJC. They’d have a lot more if Marner and Matthews weren’t in the NHL already. And they’d be the best players on their respective teams, hands down no contest.

But, to the point, no, it’s not overly important. Too many factors. A team with a prospect group that is predominantly Canadian may have a few good prospects that don’t make the team, but probably would if they were American or Swedish. I mean, a team could use their 5th, 6th, and 7th round picks on nothing but Belarussians, Danes, and Latvians, and send 20 kids to the world juniors.

Second, a 20 and 21 year old prospect who is dominating, and has progressed nicely, is just as good as a high end potential 19 year old who may not (in fact, given the odds, probably won’t), pan out. That’s the kind of thing that makes a kid like Kaspari Kapanen, scoring a point per game pace, way better than a kid like Colin White, who has regressed and can’t score a point per game in the NCAA.

Nice to see a kid like Andrew Nielsen, who started the season at age 19, playing so well in the AHL, top 10 in scoring, big kid, he’s really taken a step forward.

But you’re making a big mistake in thinking that the Leafs don’t have much past the elite 3 young rookies. In fact, most publications praise the depth of the Leafs farm system right now, just as much, if not moreso than the elite players at the top.

“The Toronto Maple Leafs crack the top-three thanks largely in part to their seemingly endless quantity of young NHL prospects.”
- The hockey writers, August 3, 2016


"In terms of tiers, the Maple Leafs are their own tier up top, then after jumping down about five stories we have the Coyotes, Jets, and Blue Jackets in a tier..."

-Not only do they have a ton of elite talent in players like Auston Matthews, Mitch Marner and William Nylander, but their depth is elite too. There are at least 20 prospects in this system that would fit in many other teams' top 10.

- Corey Pronman – August 2016


I'd be willing to bet that most hockey publications still see the Leafs prospect group as superior to the Sens group, who, Sens fans wrongly thought contained players that would be captaining their WJC teams, and in one case, even making their team. And rightfully so, the Leafs group is STILL much better, even without Matthews, Marner, and Nylander. It's plainly obvious.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Dec 22 @ 12:27 PM ET
wow......that's weak. Normally your troll game is so strong as evidenced by your one and only "go to".........you're right, I'm so rattled.
- sensarmy_11



You still deny taht a Blue Jackets fan and a Flyers fan would prefer Clarkson and his contract on the IR rather than Bobby Ryan and his.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Dec 22 @ 12:29 PM ET
Classic… the good ol’ injury card. Dipping into the typical sens fan bag of overused tricks.
- Tumbleweed



I've actually noticed it a lot out of Sens fans. They use the injury card more than any fanbase, by a longshot. Last year, many of them claimed they didn't make the playoffs because of injury. It took them 3 years to stop claiming Karlsson wasn't playing as well as he can, because of Matt Cooke. 3 years. LOL. And I've seen many point to Bobby Ryan being a 30 goal scorer, just hitting some injury issues. Wrist, finger, whatever. It's constant.

Now it's Logan Brown.
Tumbleweed
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Xizord : I am Eklund
Joined: 03.14.2014

Dec 22 @ 12:36 PM ET
The Leafs have a few guys in the WJC. They’d have a lot more if Marner and Matthews weren’t in the NHL already. And they’d be the best players on their respective teams, hands down no contest.

But, to the point, no, it’s not overly important. Too many factors. A team with a prospect group that is predominantly Canadian may have a few good prospects that don’t make the team, but probably would if they were American or Swedish. I mean, a team could use their 5th, 6th, and 7th round picks on nothing but Belarussians, Danes, and Latvians, and send 20 kids to the world juniors.

Second, a 20 and 21 year old prospect who is dominating, and has progressed nicely, is just as good as a high end potential 19 year old who may not (in fact, given the odds, probably won’t), pan out. That’s the kind of thing that makes a kid like Kaspari Kapanen, scoring a point per game pace, way better than a kid like Colin White, who has regressed and can’t score a point per game in the NCAA.

Nice to see a kid like Andrew Nielsen, who started the season at age 19, playing so well in the AHL, top 10 in scoring, big kid, he’s really taken a step forward.

But you’re making a big mistake in thinking that the Leafs don’t have much past the elite 3 young rookies. In fact, most publications praise the depth of the Leafs farm system right now, just as much, if not moreso than the elite players at the top.





I'd be willing to bet that most hockey publications still see the Leafs prospect group as superior to the Sens group, who, Sens fans wrongly thought contained players that would be captaining their WJC teams, and in one case, even making their team. And rightfully so, the Leafs group is STILL much better, even without Matthews, Marner, and Nylander. It's plainly obvious.

- prock


Excluding the leafs 'big 3’, the sens and leafs included in promen’s top 120 prospects at the beginning of the year:

26 Thomas Chabot, D, Ottawa Senators
28 Colin White, C, Ottawa Senators
41 Logan Brown, C, Ottawa Senators
58 Kasperi Kapanen, RW, Toronto Maple Leafs
67 Jeremy Bracco, RW, Toronto Maple Leafs
90 Travis Dermott, D, Toronto Maple Leafs
93 Connor Brown, RW, Toronto Maple Leafs
105 Carl Grundstrom, LW, Toronto Maple Leafs

So nothing outside of 3 guys who MIGHT be nhl players from the sens. Well, except for L.Brown, who we all now know is already a bust. So really only 2 guys who MIGHT be nhl players. Overall, from the guys on this list, the Sens prospects are stagnant/trending down, while leafs prospects are moving up.

C.Brown already proving he IS an NHL player.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Dec 22 @ 12:43 PM ET
Excluding the leafs big 3’, the sens and leafs included in promen’s top 120 prospects at the beginning of the year:

26 Thomas Chabot, D, Ottawa Senators
28 Colin White, C, Ottawa Senators
41 Logan Brown, C, Ottawa Senators
58 Kasperi Kapanen, RW, Toronto Maple Leafs
67 Jeremy Bracco, RW, Toronto Maple Leafs
90 Travis Dermott, D, Toronto Maple Leafs
93 Connor Brown, RW, Toronto Maple Leafs
105 Carl Grundstrom, LW, Toronto Maple Leafs

So nothing outside of 3 guys who MIGHT be nhl players from the sens. Well, except from L.Brown, who we all now know is already a bust. So really only 2 guys who MIGHT be nhl players. Overall, from the guys on this list, the Sens prospects are stagnant/trending down, while leafs prospects are moving up.

C.Brown already proving he IS an NHL player.

- Tumbleweed


I suspect you'll see a huge from Anderw Nielsen, who started the year in the AHL at 19 years old, 19 points in 27 games. Very impressive.

The Leafs scouting staff is really proving their worth. No busts like Logan Brown here.
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