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Forums :: NHL Talk :: WHO is in a better situation: LEAFS or SENS?
Author Message
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Dec 20 @ 3:29 PM ET
Imagine Marner or Matthews were still in junior. they'd be bumped a step further down again.

Following Cody Ceci's lead. Remember when he got those first line minutes in the World Championship, against France and Belarus? He really did eat up those minutes against France and Belarus, so they could give Morgan Rielly a rest, so Rielly was ready for the good teams.

Jeez, couldn't play Rielly too much, he had to play in the World Cup too. Imagine they didn't have Ceci to play against France, and glue to the bench later on? that would have been an even busier summer for Rielly, with the World Cup too. Good thing Ceci got that time to rest eh?

- prock


Yes Reilly is playing some good minutes for a team that does not play very good D.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Dec 20 @ 3:35 PM ET
Imagine Marner or Matthews were still in junior. they'd be bumped a step further down again.

Following Cody Ceci's lead. Remember when he got those first line minutes in the World Championship, against France and Belarus? He really did eat up those minutes against France and Belarus, so they could give Morgan Rielly a rest, so Rielly was ready for the good teams.

Jeez, couldn't play Rielly too much, he had to play in the World Cup too. Imagine they didn't have Ceci to play against France, and glue to the bench later on? that would have been an even busier summer for Rielly, with the World Cup too. Good thing Ceci got that time to rest eh?

- prock


You realize the big dogs like Laine and McDavid could also be playing.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Dec 20 @ 3:41 PM ET
Yes Reilly is playing some good minutes for a team that does not play very good D.
- spatso



And Ceci is playing second line minutes for a team that gives up nearly just as many shots as the Leafs. LOL.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Dec 20 @ 3:42 PM ET
You realize the big dogs like Laine and McDavid could also be playing.
- spatso



Which would relegate second rate talent like Chabot and White even further down into supporting roles.
Tumbleweed
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Xizord : I am Eklund
Joined: 03.14.2014

Dec 20 @ 3:45 PM ET
Which would relegate second rate talent even like Chabot and White even further down into supporting roles.
- prock


Arguing with spatso:

spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Dec 20 @ 3:56 PM ET
And Ceci is playing second line minutes for a team that gives up nearly just as many shots as the Leafs. LOL.
- prock


Boy are you lost. Ceci is playing huge minutes averaging over 23 minutes a game on the season. Lately he has played up to 27 minutes and in a few games he has logged more ice time than Karlsson. Boucher is developing Ceci as his #1 shut down guy paired with Phaneuf. Together they have done a tremendous job in helping Ottawa cut way back on their goals against.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Dec 20 @ 4:22 PM ET
Boy are you lost. Ceci is playing huge minutes averaging over 23 minutes a game on the season. Lately he has played up to 27 minutes and in a few games he has logged more ice time than Karlsson.
- spatso



So Karlsson is relegated to second pairing on a team that sucks defensively?

Boucher is developing Ceci as his #1 shut down guy paired with Phaneuf. Together they have done a tremendous job in helping Ottawa cut way back on their goals against.
- spatso


At ES, Phaneuf has the 4th most goals against while on the ice in the league (28), among Dmen. Ceci 7th (26).

Only Dumoulin on Pit, Tyson Barrie, and Byfuglien have more goals against than Phaneuf. Admittedly, this has actually given Karlsson a break from being the biggest sieve in the league, and he now weighs in at a lofty 34th worst in the league (with some of the cushiest zone deployments in the league).

The team has most definitely improved defensively. They play a much more defensive style. Which is why they're now bottom 10 in scoring.

senstroll
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Dec 20 @ 4:25 PM ET
Boy are you lost. Ceci is playing huge minutes averaging over 23 minutes a game on the season. Lately he has played up to 27 minutes and in a few games he has logged more ice time than Karlsson. Boucher is developing Ceci as his #1 shut down guy paired with Phaneuf. Together they have done a tremendous job in helping Ottawa cut way back on their goals against.
- spatso



Lets look into Ceci a little more..since you only quote TOI...which doesnt really give much insight


Ceci

45.75 CF%
Goals for % 34.21 (13gf 25ga)

Or if you like traditional stats
in 555 mins on the ice 5v5

0 goals
2 assists in 32 games
-10


shut down guy = crappy player who cant do much
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Dec 20 @ 4:33 PM ET
Lets look into Ceci a little more..since you only quote TOI...which doesnt really give much insight


Ceci

45.75 CF%
Goals for % 34.21 (13gf 25ga)

Or if you like traditional stats
in 555 mins on the ice 5v5

0 goals
2 assists in 32 games
-10


shut down guy = crappy player who cant do much

- senstroll


He's absolutely horrible. I never did understand what Sens fans saw in him, to be honest.
senstroll
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Dec 20 @ 4:36 PM ET
He's absolutely horrible. I never did understand what Sens fans saw in him, to be honest.
- prock



Local Kid..former 67 .. Sens need to try to sell tickets in other ways
they lean heavily on the home town stuff.

It works..fans like spatso eat it up..but being from Ottawa has no correlation to making a player better...same as for the Leafs or any other team

he is very average at best. and when you try to force a square peg in to a round hole like putting him on display as some sort of #1 its likley to end up bad
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Dec 20 @ 4:50 PM ET
Local Kid..former 67 .. Sens need to try to sell tickets in other ways
they lean heavily on the home town stuff.

It works..fans like spatso eat it up..but being from Ottawa has no correlation to making a player better...same as for the Leafs or any other team

he is very average at best. and when you try to force a square peg in to a round hole like putting him on display as some sort of #1 its likley to end up bad

- senstroll


Ceci? He's not average. I don't think he's very good at all.

If there was one player I'd want from the Sens right now, it would be Marc Methot. Methot's defensive metrics when not paired with Karlsson are pretty amazing. he'd be great for Rielly. It's a shame he's getting a little long in the tooth. His best days are behind him.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Dec 20 @ 7:14 PM ET
Ceci? He's not average. I don't think he's very good at all.

If there was one player I'd want from the Sens right now, it would be Marc Methot. Methot's defensive metrics when not paired with Karlsson are pretty amazing. he'd be great for Rielly. It's a shame he's getting a little long in the tooth. His best days are behind him.

- prock


You realize that Reilly basically has the same numbers GA/60 as Phaneuf. Reilly is far behind Ceci and nowhere near the kind numbers posted by Methot or Karlsson. If you use the kind of statistics you tend to favour it would clearly signal that Ceci is playing a far stronger game than Reilly.

But, and this is important, this statistic is not much different than a souped up +/-. Not sure why you harass us with essentially irrelevant data.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Dec 20 @ 7:21 PM ET
Ceci? He's not average. I don't think he's very good at all.

If there was one player I'd want from the Sens right now, it would be Marc Methot. Methot's defensive metrics when not paired with Karlsson are pretty amazing. he'd be great for Rielly. It's a shame he's getting a little long in the tooth. His best days are behind him.

- prock



This is a joke. Your pulling our leg. We never see Methot on the ice unless Karlsson is playing 5 on 5 with him.

As far as your data goes it suggests Ceci is a much stronger Dman than Reilly. Curios why your trying to make a case with obscure data that really does not support your primary themes.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Dec 20 @ 7:34 PM ET
This is a joke. Your pulling our leg. We never see Methot on the ice unless Karlsson is playing 5 on 5 with him.

As far as your data goes it suggests Ceci is a much stronger Dman than Reilly. Curios why your trying to make a case with obscure data that really does not support your primary themes.

- spatso


please tell me you're kidding. Karlsson has almost 170 more minutes 5 on 5 this year. what you are saying is not only inaccurate. it's physically impossible.

you never cease to amaze me. you say things that are so ridiculous. I'm gonna file your last post with the one telling us that expenses have no impact on profits.

you're truly are remarkable.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Dec 20 @ 8:03 PM ET
please tell me you're kidding. Karlsson has almost 170 more minutes 5 on 5 this year. what you are saying is not only inaccurate. it's physically impossible.

you never cease to amaze me. you say things that are so ridiculous. I'm gonna file your last post with the one telling us that expenses have no impact on profits.

you're truly are remarkable.

- prock


You can squirm all you want and try to change the discussion but the numbers are clear.

Ceci has played 565.95 minutes with 26 goals against for a 2.76 GA/60

Reilly has played 531.10 minutes with 27 goals against for a 3.05 GA/60

Phaneuf has played 531.37 minutes with 28 goals against for a 3.16 GA/60

These are the numbers you want to work with and it suggests that Reilly continues to fall behind Ceci in terms of taking care of his own end.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Dec 20 @ 8:19 PM ET
You can squirm all you want and try to change the discussion but the numbers are clear.

Ceci has played 565.95 minutes with 26 goals against for a 2.76 GA/60

Reilly has played 531.10 minutes with 27 goals against for a 3.05 GA/60

Phaneuf has played 531.37 minutes with 28 goals against for a 3.16 GA/60

These are the numbers you want to work with and it suggests that Reilly continues to fall behind Ceci in terms of taking care of his own end.

- spatso


first, I've always said you should you look at several numbers together, like goals against, GA per 60, zone deployments, quality of competition, etc. I pointed out Karlsson cushy zone deployment just a
few posts back, in fact. you should also keep in kind that leafs haven't been getting great goaltending lately.

most importantly, I don't think Rielly has been overly good this season on the defensive end. I don't think very mUch of the team has been. young team maybe? lots of rookies? I dont know, but they haven't. so that's the bar you're comparing to. I've never claimed they have in fact. you have claimed the sens are performing well. all of these guys are bottom of the league in most of these metrics, and you gloat about them. Rielly DOES have a few that are better than almost every Sens dman though. and historically he has been better as well. I'll say they're roughly performing as well as the sens. but that's not gloating. I've said many times I don't expect either team to make the playoffs. but one of them is young and improving. the other is the sens. a garbage team with no future. no good, and no real expectation of improvement either.

again, youre the one claiming these guys are doing well. it's painfully obvious they're not.

and again, your claim that Karlsson doesn't play without Methot is just plain stupid and impossible, you retard. explain to me how you think it is given he has 170 more minutes?
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Dec 20 @ 8:24 PM ET
please tell me you're kidding. Karlsson has almost 170 more minutes 5 on 5 this year. what you are saying is not only inaccurate. it's physically impossible.

you never cease to amaze me. you say things that are so ridiculous. I'm gonna file your last post with the one telling us that expenses have no impact on profits.

you're truly are remarkable.

- prock


Your obviously a little spooked at having been caught out. Nobody disputes that Karlsson plays 5 on 5 without Methot. But Methot seldom plays 5 on 5 without Karlsson other than after a power play. Karlsson does play more and Methot has missed some time with injury. But I am not worried that the facts will ever dissuade you away from your continuing to make up what you want to believe.

PS I never said expenses had no impact on profit. I corrected you and others who claimed that hockey tickets could be a taxable deduction and the government was subsidizing season tickets so fat cats to go to the game. It does not work that way. It changed a long time ago.
twiztedmike
Toronto Maple Leafs
Joined: 10.06.2007

Dec 20 @ 8:27 PM ET
first, I've always said you should you look at several numbers together, like goals against, GA per 60, zone deployments, quality of competition, etc. I pointed out Karlsson cushy zone deployment just a
few posts back, in fact. you should also keep in kind that leafs haven't been getting great goaltending lately.

most importantly, I don't think Rielly has been overly good this season on the defensive end. I don't think very mUch of the team has been. young team maybe? lots of rookies? I dont know, but they haven't. so that's the bar you're comparing to. I've never claimed they have in fact. you have claimed the sens are performing well. all of these guys are bottom of the league in most of these metrics, and you gloat about them. Rielly DOES have a few that are better than almost every Sens dman though. and historically he has been better as well. I'll say they're roughly performing as well as the sens. but that's not gloating. I've said many times I don't expect either team to make the playoffs. but one of them is young and improving. the other is the sens. a garbage team with no future. no good, and no real expectation of improvement either.

again, youre the one claiming these guys are doing well. it's painfully obvious they're not.

and again, your claim that Karlsson doesn't play without Methot is just plain stupid and impossible, you retard. explain to me how you think it is given he has 170 more minutes?

- prock
they;ve been getting great goaltending lately.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Dec 20 @ 8:34 PM ET
first, I've always said you should you look at several numbers together, like goals against, GA per 60, zone deployments, quality of competition, etc. I pointed out Karlsson cushy zone deployment just a
few posts back, in fact. you should also keep in kind that leafs haven't been getting great goaltending lately.

most importantly, I don't think Rielly has been overly good this season on the defensive end. I don't think very mUch of the team has been. young team maybe? lots of rookies? I dont know, but they haven't. so that's the bar you're comparing to. I've never claimed they have in fact. you have claimed the sens are performing well. all of these guys are bottom of the league in most of these metrics, and you gloat about them. Rielly DOES have a few that are better than almost every Sens dman though. and historically he has been better as well. I'll say they're roughly performing as well as the sens. but that's not gloating. I've said many times I don't expect either team to make the playoffs. but one of them is young and improving. the other is the sens. a garbage team with no future. no good, and no real expectation of improvement either.

again, youre the one claiming these guys are doing well. it's painfully obvious they're not.

and again, your claim that Karlsson doesn't play without Methot is just plain stupid and impossible, you retard. explain to me how you think it is given he has 170 more minutes?

- prock


You have gotten yourself way too agitated. I believe the point that I made was the opposite. Karlsson obviously plays without Methot. Methot plays very little without Karlsson as his partner.

Obviously Ceci has stronger defensive numbers than Reilly and likely faces a lot tougher competition and zone starts. Not sure why your now trying to claim that Reilly is performing as well as the Sens Dmen. There is nothing in the data to suggest that any of that is true.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Dec 20 @ 8:43 PM ET
You realize that Reilly basically has the same numbers GA/60 as Phaneuf. Reilly is far behind Ceci and nowhere near the kind numbers posted by Methot or Karlsson. If you use the kind of statistics you tend to favour it would clearly signal that Ceci is playing a far stronger game than Reilly.

But, and this is important, this statistic is not much different than a souped up +/-. Not sure why you harass us with essentially irrelevant data.

- spatso

prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Dec 20 @ 8:52 PM ET
Your obviously a little spooked at having been caught out. Nobody disputes that Karlsson plays 5 on 5 without Methot. But Methot seldom plays 5 on 5 without Karlsson other than after a power play. Karlsson does play more and Methot has missed some time with injury. But I am not worried that the facts will ever dissuade you away from your continuing to make up what you want to believe.

PS I never said expenses had no impact on profit. I corrected you and others who claimed that hockey tickets could be a taxable deduction and the government was subsidizing season tickets so fat cats to go to the game. It does not work that way. It changed a long time ago.

- spatso



he's got 83 minutes without Karlsson, that's plenty. conversely Karlsson GA skyrockets without Methot. 223 minutes of that.

try again retard.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Dec 20 @ 9:13 PM ET
he's got 83 minutes without Karlsson, that's plenty. conversely Karlsson GA skyrockets without Methot. 223 minutes of that.

try again retard.

- prock


As I said before almost all of Methot's time without Karlsson is on a shift after a power play.

But that is just a distraction.

I don't think you get off the hook merely by saying Reilly has not been playing well or blaming it on poor Leaf goaltending. You either believe in your numbers or you don't. I don't like the number as I think it is just half of a plus/minus and can be highly misleading.
penguininnevada
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: i really am (frank)ing great. i think i need an actual gun pressed between my eyes
Joined: 09.01.2008

Dec 20 @ 9:13 PM ET
As I said before almost all of Methot's time without Karlsson is on a shift after a power play.

But that is just a distraction.

I don't think you get off the hook merely by saying Reilly has not been playing well or blaming it on poor Leaf goaltending. You either believe in your numbers or you don't. I don't like the number as I think it is just half of a plus/minus and can be highly misleading.

- spatso

prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Dec 20 @ 9:39 PM ET
As I said before almost all of Methot's time without Karlsson is on a shift after a power play.

But that is just a distraction.

I don't think you get off the hook merely by saying Reilly has not been playing well or blaming it on poor Leaf goaltending. You either believe in your numbers or you don't. I don't like the number as I think it is just half of a plus/minus and can be highly misleading.

- spatso



I'm not sure what your point is. Rielly hasn't even great defensively this year, the numbers support that. Ceci is total garbage, Karlsson is a total mess defensively. Phaneuf is a train wreck too. the numbers support all of that.

it is what it is.

at the end of the day, the Sens are total garbage. live with it.
daeth
Nashville Predators
Location: shambles, ON
Joined: 09.15.2005

Dec 20 @ 10:06 PM ET
sens up 3-2

i can smell a finals appearance
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619, 620, 621, 622, 623, 624, 625, 626, 627, 628, 629, 630, 631, 632, 633, 634, 635, 636, 637, 638, 639, 640, 641, 642, 643, 644, 645, 646, 647, 648, 649, 650, 651, 652, 653, 654, 655, 656, 657, 658, 659, 660, 661, 662, 663, 664, 665, 666, 667, 668, 669, 670, 671, 672, 673, 674, 675, 676, 677, 678, 679, 680, 681, 682, 683, 684, 685, 686, 687, 688, 689, 690, 691, 692, 693, 694, 695, 696, 697, 698, 699, 700, 701, 702, 703, 704, 705, 706, 707, 708, 709, 710, 711, 712, 713, 714, 715, 716, 717, 718, 719, 720, 721, 722, 723, 724, 725, 726, 727, 728, 729, 730, 731, 732, 733, 734, 735, 736, 737, 738, 739, 740, 741, 742, 743, 744, 745, 746, 747, 748, 749, 750, 751, 752, 753, 754, 755, 756, 757, 758, 759, 760, 761, 762, 763, 764, 765, 766, 767, 768, 769, 770, 771, 772, 773, 774, 775, 776, 777, 778, 779, 780, 781, 782, 783, 784, 785, 786, 787, 788, 789, 790, 791, 792, 793, 794, 795, 796, 797, 798, 799, 800, 801, 802, 803, 804, 805, 806, 807, 808, 809, 810, 811, 812, 813, 814, 815, 816, 817, 818, 819, 820, 821, 822, 823, 824, 825, 826, 827, 828, 829, 830, 831, 832, 833, 834, 835, 836, 837, 838, 839, 840, 841, 842, 843, 844, 845, 846, 847, 848, 849, 850, 851, 852, 853, 854, 855, 856, 857, 858, 859, 860, 861, 862, 863, 864, 865, 866, 867, 868, 869, 870, 871, 872, 873, 874, 875, 876, 877, 878, 879, 880, 881, 882, 883, 884, 885, 886, 887, 888, 889, 890, 891, 892, 893, 894, 895, 896, 897, 898, 899, 900, 901, 902, 903, 904, 905, 906, 907, 908, 909, 910, 911, 912, 913, 914, 915, 916, 917, 918, 919, 920, 921, 922, 923, 924, 925, 926, 927, 928, 929, 930, 931, 932, 933, 934, 935, 936, 937, 938, 939, 940, 941, 942, 943, 944, 945, 946, 947, 948, 949, 950, 951, 952, 953, 954, 955, 956, 957, 958, 959, 960, 961, 962, 963, 964, 965, 966, 967, 968, 969, 970, 971, 972, 973, 974, 975, 976, 977, 978, 979, 980, 981, 982, 983, 984, 985, 986, 987, 988, 989, 990, 991, 992, 993, 994, 995, 996, 997, 998, 999, 1000, 1001, 1002, 1003, 1004, 1005, 1006, 1007, 1008, 1009, 1010, 1011, 1012, 1013, 1014, 1015, 1016, 1017, 1018, 1019, 1020, 1021, 1022, 1023, 1024, 1025, 1026, 1027, 1028, 1029, 1030, 1031, 1032, 1033, 1034, 1035, 1036, 1037, 1038, 1039, 1040, 1041, 1042, 1043, 1044, 1045, 1046, 1047, 1048, 1049, 1050, 1051, 1052, 1053, 1054, 1055, 1056, 1057, 1058, 1059, 1060, 1061, 1062, 1063, 1064, 1065, 1066, 1067, 1068, 1069, 1070, 1071, 1072, 1073, 1074, 1075, 1076, 1077, 1078, 1079, 1080, 1081, 1082, 1083, 1084, 1085, 1086, 1087, 1088, 1089, 1090, 1091, 1092, 1093, 1094, 1095, 1096, 1097, 1098, 1099, 1100, 1101, 1102, 1103, 1104, 1105, 1106, 1107, 1108, 1109, 1110, 1111, 1112, 1113, 1114, 1115, 1116, 1117, 1118, 1119, 1120, 1121, 1122, 1123, 1124, 1125, 1126, 1127, 1128, 1129, 1130, 1131, 1132, 1133, 1134, 1135, 1136, 1137, 1138, 1139, 1140, 1141, 1142, 1143, 1144, 1145, 1146, 1147, 1148, 1149, 1150, 1151, 1152, 1153, 1154, 1155, 1156, 1157, 1158, 1159, 1160  Next