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Forums :: NHL Talk :: WHO is in a better situation: LEAFS or SENS?
Author Message
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Dec 12 @ 12:25 PM ET
Grasping? The Leafs are a very young team. Very little experience, if that's what you prefer. Young teams tend to be pretty erratic.

the Sens are not a young team, they are pretty old by NHL standards. Several players playing fairly key roles, into their 30s (Phaneuf, Methot, Anderson - so half the top pairings, and starting goalie), more knocking on the door (Ryan is 29, Brassard is 29). That's a pretty good portion of the core of the Sens on the backside of their career.

I'm not sure why you try to contend the Leafs being a young team, and the Sens as not much older. There is a pretty clear difference. the Leafs have among the top youth in the league. The Sens don't really have any youth of significance at all.

- prock

Maybe he just doesn't realize that Nylander, Matthews, and Marner aren't 26?
Tumbleweed
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: desert ridge
Joined: 03.14.2014

Dec 12 @ 12:27 PM ET
I'm leaning towards Ottawa finishing ahead of toronto in the standings, but with injuries, or no injuries, anything could happen I guess.

toronto's average age of 26.566 yrs old, is not much younger than Ottawa's average age of 27.605 yrs old..... roughly one year difference, you really should not using age as the defining difference between the two teams ........... I know you're grasping at the "younger" card, but you should be looking at overall NHL experience for an excuse to hang your hat on.

- D0PPELGANGER


the average age of the leafs current 23-man roster is under 25. much closer to 3 years lower than the sens.

if you selectively include only old players from the marlies roster and players with career ending injuries still under contract you get the the 26.5.
systemtool
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Real men always have to poo, ON
Joined: 09.12.2007

Dec 12 @ 1:46 PM ET
I'm leaning towards Ottawa finishing ahead of toronto in the standings, but with injuries, or no injuries, anything could happen I guess.

toronto's average age of 26.566 yrs old, is not much younger than Ottawa's average age of 27.605 yrs old..... roughly one year difference, you really should not using age as the defining difference between the two teams ........... I know you're grasping at the "younger" card, but you should be looking at overall NHL experience for an excuse to hang your hat on.

- D0PPELGANGER


In fairness he makes a good point. For example do the Leafs have anyone over 26 locked up beyond next season that is playing on the roster? Anderson and Martin are the only names that come to mind. Maybe Gardiner and Kadri?

Sens have a lot more than that no?

More importantly if you compare the two teams core, or best players, the Leafs are 26 and younger. Sens it's 26 and older, for the most part. Kind of makes a difference no when trying to predict a teams future and possible direction? Obviously there will be one or two exceptions to this but I think the point is valid.
Tumbleweed
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: desert ridge
Joined: 03.14.2014

Dec 12 @ 1:54 PM ET
In fairness he makes a good point. For example do the Leafs have anyone over 26 locked up beyond next season that is playing on the roster? Anderson and Martin are the only names that come to mind. Maybe Gardiner and Kadri?

Sens have a lot more than that no?

More importantly if you compare the two teams core, or best players, the Leafs are 26 and younger. Sens it's 26 and older, for the most part. Kind of makes a difference no when trying to predict a teams future and possible direction? Obviously there will be one or two exceptions to this but I think the point is valid.

- systemtool


Exactly. D0pps math just doesn't add up
D0PPELGANGER
Ottawa Senators
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 05.06.2015

Dec 12 @ 2:35 PM ET
Grasping? The Leafs are a very young team. Very little experience, if that's what you prefer. Young teams tend to be pretty erratic.

the Sens are not a young team, they are pretty old by NHL standards. Several players playing fairly key roles, into their 30s (Phaneuf, Methot, Anderson - so half the top pairings, and starting goalie), more knocking on the door (Ryan is 29, Brassard is 29). That's a pretty good portion of the core of the Sens on the backside of their career.

I'm not sure why you try to contend the Leafs being a young team, and the Sens as not much older. There is a pretty clear difference. the Leafs have among the top youth in the league. The Sens don't really have any youth of significance at all.

- prock




I know that you have "your own narrative" when trying to make excuses for the leafs, and to hammer the Senators into the ground.

But for a guy who lives and dies by stats, I'm amazed that you totally ignore the stats when it comes to the average age of the NHL teams. You cite all the "old guys' on the Senators, but their team's average age is 27.630, which ranks 9th overall, so yes in the top third of the league ........... but they must have their share of younger players if their average is 27.630 years old. toronto ranks 24th overall at 26.566 yrs old ....... and again it's about a year in difference ......... not that much, and for a stats guy, you shouldn't have this blind spot.

As for the Senators "youth" they have their share in their system, and these players will be finding their way into the league over the next few seasons, so I'm not at all worried that they'll ever be too old to compete, or whatever you're trying to spread serious doubt about.
D0PPELGANGER
Ottawa Senators
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 05.06.2015

Dec 12 @ 2:37 PM ET
the average age of the leafs current 23-man roster is under 25. much closer to 3 years lower than the sens.

if you selectively include only old players from the marlies roster and players with career ending injuries still under contract you get the the 26.5.

- Tumbleweed


27.630 - 26.566 = 1.064 yrs difference




http://stats.nhlnumbers.com/teams
daeth
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: (frank) those orbs, ON
Joined: 09.15.2005

Dec 12 @ 2:38 PM ET
You missed the second period
- D0PPELGANGER

I saw the game from start to finish.
Tumbleweed
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: desert ridge
Joined: 03.14.2014

Dec 12 @ 2:41 PM ET
27.630 - 26.566 = 1.064 yrs difference




http://stats.nhlnumbers.com/teams

- D0PPELGANGER



Average age of the leafs current 23 man roster:

1 Kadri, Nazem 26
2 Van Riemsdyk, James 27
3 Bozak, Tyler "A" 30
4 Komarov, Leo "A" 29
5 Martin, Matt 27
6 Matthews, Auston 19
7 Hyman, Zach 24
8 Nylander, William 20
9 Marner, Mitchell 19
10 Soshnikov, Nikita 23
11 Brown, Connor 22
12 Smith, Ben 28
13 Leivo, Josh 23
14 Rielly, Morgan "A" 22
15 Gardiner, Jake 26
16 Polak, Roman 30
17 Marincin, Martin 24
18 Hunwick, Matt "A" 31
19 Zaitsev, Nikita 25
20 Carrick, Connor 22
21 Corrado, Frank 23
22 Andersen, Frederik 27
23 Bibeau, Antoine 22

avg 24.7


But sure, you keep trucking along using an average that includes players not on the team.
systemtool
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Real men always have to poo, ON
Joined: 09.12.2007

Dec 12 @ 4:34 PM ET
Average age of the leafs current 23 man roster:

1 Kadri, Nazem 26
2 Van Riemsdyk, James 27
3 Bozak, Tyler "A" 30
4 Komarov, Leo "A" 29
5 Martin, Matt 27
6 Matthews, Auston 19
7 Hyman, Zach 24
8 Nylander, William 20
9 Marner, Mitchell 19
10 Soshnikov, Nikita 23
11 Brown, Connor 22
12 Smith, Ben 28
13 Leivo, Josh 23
14 Rielly, Morgan "A" 22
15 Gardiner, Jake 26
16 Polak, Roman 30
17 Marincin, Martin 24
18 Hunwick, Matt "A" 31
19 Zaitsev, Nikita 25
20 Carrick, Connor 22
21 Corrado, Frank 23
22 Andersen, Frederik 27
23 Bibeau, Antoine 22

avg 24.7


But sure, you keep trucking along using an average that includes players not on the team.

- Tumbleweed

He's starting to seem rattled. Excellent post though. Very insightful.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Dec 12 @ 6:00 PM ET
27.630 - 26.566 = 1.064 yrs difference




http://stats.nhlnumbers.com/teams

- D0PPELGANGER

Your use of this gif is just so perfectly inline with the original thing, it's amazing.


Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Dec 12 @ 6:02 PM ET
Average age of the leafs current 23 man roster:

1 Kadri, Nazem 26
2 Van Riemsdyk, James 27
3 Bozak, Tyler "A" 30
4 Komarov, Leo "A" 29
5 Martin, Matt 27
6 Matthews, Auston 19
7 Hyman, Zach 24
8 Nylander, William 20
9 Marner, Mitchell 19
10 Soshnikov, Nikita 23
11 Brown, Connor 22
12 Smith, Ben 28
13 Leivo, Josh 23
14 Rielly, Morgan "A" 22
15 Gardiner, Jake 26
16 Polak, Roman 30
17 Marincin, Martin 24
18 Hunwick, Matt "A" 31
19 Zaitsev, Nikita 25
20 Carrick, Connor 22
21 Corrado, Frank 23
22 Andersen, Frederik 27
23 Bibeau, Antoine 22

avg 24.7


But sure, you keep trucking along using an average that includes players not on the team.

- Tumbleweed

Holy, Bozak's 30?

But honestly, you look at that list... Kadri and Komarov are on the 3rd line, JVR is likely to be dealt before he hits UFA, for defensive help, and Bozak is likely to move down the roster too. The Leaf's future top-6 will feature Marner, Matthews, and Nylander, with 20 year old Nylander being the oldest... and may also include one or two of Kapanen, Anderson, Johnson, Bracco, or Brown.

And we have Rielly at 22 as a future #1 d-man, and Zaitsev, Carrick, and Gardiner as a good start for a supporting cast.

Leafs obviously still have holes, but it's hard not to be excited about the amount of youth at all positions.
Tumbleweed
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: desert ridge
Joined: 03.14.2014

Dec 12 @ 6:25 PM ET
He's starting to seem rattled. Excellent post though. Very insightful.

- systemtool


Sens youth movement will be picking up shortly though.

They have last year’s qmjhl mvp tearing it up with 7 points in 24 games in the ahl. Will be an nhl’er in no time.

Tumbleweed
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: desert ridge
Joined: 03.14.2014

Dec 12 @ 6:30 PM ET
Francis Perron of the Rouyn-Noranda Huskies, drafted 190th overall by the Ottawa Senators in 2014, wins the Guy Lafleur Trophy as the QMJHL President Cup playoffs MVP.

Again, further proof that Ottawa has been much more successful, than the leafs, when drafting in the later rounds.

Perron, was also named the league’s regular season MVP, becoming the first player since Jonathan Drouin of the Halifax Mooseheads to win both awards.




- D0PPELGANGER


lol
Pie
Montreal Canadiens
Location: taking the low road
Joined: 10.14.2006

Dec 12 @ 7:55 PM ET
I hope Spatz is hearing the boos Chara is getting in the Bell Centre...makes Karlssons reception runway like in comparison, what?. I like the way Spatzy gets under everyones skin but ya, haven't heard consistent boos like that for as long as I watched the Habs.
systemtool
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Real men always have to poo, ON
Joined: 09.12.2007

Dec 12 @ 8:01 PM ET
I hope Spatz is hearing the boos Chara is getting in the Bell Centre...makes Karlssons reception runway like in comparison, what?. I like the way Spatzy gets under everyones skin but ya, haven't heard consistent boos like that for as long as I watched the Habs.
- Pie


Don't let him get under your skin.
systemtool
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Real men always have to poo, ON
Joined: 09.12.2007

Dec 12 @ 8:12 PM ET
Sens youth movement will be picking up shortly though.

They have last year’s qmjhl mvp tearing it up with 7 points in 24 games in the ahl. Will be an nhl’er in no time.

- Tumbleweed


Another jabroni.

Whatever happened to Ceci and Lazar beam? The future of Canada.
Pie
Montreal Canadiens
Location: taking the low road
Joined: 10.14.2006

Dec 12 @ 8:13 PM ET
Don't let him get under your skin.
- systemtool

systemtool
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Real men always have to poo, ON
Joined: 09.12.2007

Dec 12 @ 8:15 PM ET

- Pie


Seriously though. Habs looking great. A class above most of the country. Even the Sens despite Spatsos efforts to claim they're close to even. Kudos to les habitants.
Crimsoninja
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: the orb is the only thing that makes it remotely interesting.
Joined: 07.06.2007

Dec 12 @ 8:20 PM ET
Seriously though. Habs looking great. A class above most of the country. Even the Sens despite Spatsos efforts to claim they're close to even. Kudos to les habitants.
- systemtool

this is pathetic
Pie
Montreal Canadiens
Location: taking the low road
Joined: 10.14.2006

Dec 12 @ 8:24 PM ET
Seriously though. Habs looking great. A class above most of the country. Even the Sens despite Spatsos efforts to claim they're close to even. Kudos to les habitants.
- systemtool

Weber is everything as advertised and giving Emelin some security to play his game which really shrinks that neutral zone. Radulov at the quarter is a steal. Obviously, hope they win everything but I have some doubts over 16 games come spring. GM has some tweaks to realize the potential.
Pie
Montreal Canadiens
Location: taking the low road
Joined: 10.14.2006

Dec 12 @ 8:24 PM ET
this is pathetic
- Crimsoninja

my balls, your chin
habman75
Montreal Canadiens
Location: Une plotzza, une plotine, and , QC
Joined: 09.07.2007

Dec 12 @ 11:12 PM ET
my balls, your chin
- Pie


+ my jizz.... Winning combo for everyone involved...
Pie
Montreal Canadiens
Location: taking the low road
Joined: 10.14.2006

Dec 12 @ 11:13 PM ET
+ my jizz.... Winning combo for everyone involved...
- habman75

not really
habman75
Montreal Canadiens
Location: Une plotzza, une plotine, and , QC
Joined: 09.07.2007

Dec 12 @ 11:16 PM ET
Seriously though. Habs looking great. A class above most of the country. Even the Sens despite Spatsos efforts to claim they're close to even. Kudos to les habitants.
- systemtool





Like Pie said though, Bergevin needs to tweak the roster some before the deadline. Also, giving Markov and to a lesser degree Weber a little rest before the playoffs would be a much needed plus as well. People were calling Weber washed up last year because of the 2 last playoff games. But other than that, he was just as dominant as he has ever been.
habman75
Montreal Canadiens
Location: Une plotzza, une plotine, and , QC
Joined: 09.07.2007

Dec 12 @ 11:16 PM ET
not really
- Pie





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