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Forums :: NHL Talk :: WHO is in a better situation: LEAFS or SENS?
Author Message
senstroll
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Dec 7 @ 12:24 PM ET


More on EE

http://www.fangraphs.com/...gainst-edwin-encarnacion/

Really no reason to think he wont decline just like JB has...that not a great look
systemtool
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Real men always have to poo, ON
Joined: 09.12.2007

Dec 7 @ 12:41 PM ET
they offered EE 80 million - He declined

They had to change plans, who would you have signed?

So far they are making some changes ..getting some hitters who can hit lefties, Pearce demolishes LHP .. Morales is an improvement also.

So far the new guys have been able to get value instead of wasting money .. Grilli, Benoit and Liriano had for nothing .. also upton who sucks..but the Jays are paying him 1 million this season.

will have to wait it out.. I expect 1 more signed out of Fowler/EE/Bautista


Edwin is probably not even worth 80 actually

https://www.washingtonpos...tw&utm_term=.91f4b30029f3

- senstroll


He'll no to JB. I'd take EE even if he does decline by the end of contract. Window to win is really small and I would have liked another shot or two at it before going changing too much. Especially a core guy like EE.
senstroll
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Dec 7 @ 12:52 PM ET
He'll no to JB. I'd take EE even if he does decline by the end of contract. Window to win is really small and I would have liked another shot or two at it before going changing too much. Especially a core guy like EE.
- systemtool


The thing is ...if they get 1 more decent piece they will be pretty much in it again like the last 2 years.. the SP is one of the best in the AL .. 15 win WAR alone.

Morales/Peirce and say Fowler ...also hear Ian Desmond mentioned (edit..he is gone) ... the Jays will be fine ..they maybe wont be the same type of team..just win a different way..which is fine

too early to be crying about it imo

Edit ..also just saw the 2017 projections for JB/EE

Jose WRC+ 128, 2.9 WAR
Edwin WRC+ 125, 2.3 WAR

Tumbleweed
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Xizord : I am Eklund
Joined: 03.14.2014

Dec 7 @ 1:07 PM ET
WHO is in a better situation: JAYS OR SENS?

Despite some obviously flaws, I'd still pretty easily say the Jays.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Dec 7 @ 1:13 PM ET

- sensarmy_11



What did he have, like 3 goals against last game?
sensarmy_11
Ottawa Senators
Location: If Ottawa traded ryan for clarkson sens would need to add a pick - Prock, NS
Joined: 06.01.2009

Dec 7 @ 1:23 PM ET
What did he have, like 3 goals against last game?
- prock


sensarmy_11
Ottawa Senators
Location: If Ottawa traded ryan for clarkson sens would need to add a pick - Prock, NS
Joined: 06.01.2009

Dec 7 @ 1:26 PM ET
The thing is ...if they get 1 more decent piece they will be pretty much in it again like the last 2 years.. the SP is one of the best in the AL .. 15 win WAR alone.

Morales/Peirce and say Fowler ...also hear Ian Desmond mentioned (edit..he is gone) ... the Jays will be fine ..they maybe wont be the same type of team..just win a different way..which is fine

too early to be crying about it imo

Edit ..also just saw the 2017 projections for JB/EE

Jose WRC+ 128, 2.9 WAR
Edwin WRC+ 125, 2.3 WAR

- senstroll


I think they need to add 1-2 LHP in the bullpen....and one more position player. I think if you take Edwin and JB out then they have an offense that is less dependant on the HR for offence. maybe get a little more speed into the lineup.

I found their lineup last year was exciting, when it was clicking, but incredibly inconsistent. their overall run total was impressive, but that's because they had tons of games where they're scoring 7, 8, 9 runs.....but also a lot of games where they didn't hit the HRs and only ended up with 1-2 runs. they were an all or nothing team, and I'm kind of hoping that next year they become a little more consistent.
Tumbleweed
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Xizord : I am Eklund
Joined: 03.14.2014

Dec 7 @ 1:35 PM ET

- sensarmy_11


i think it was 4

that is pretty poopty
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Dec 7 @ 1:45 PM ET
i think it was 4

that is pretty poopty

- Tumbleweed



old habits die hard
D0PPELGANGER
Ottawa Senators
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 05.06.2015

Dec 7 @ 1:59 PM ET
What did he have, like 3 goals against last game?
- prock



There are few D Men in the league that log as much TOI than EK65 does. Of course he will be on the ice when goals are scored, for or against.

In fact there are only 4 D men (as of today) that have logged over 700 minutes (TOI) so far this season, Erik Karlsson being one of them.

Brent Burns with only 601:07 TOI leads NHL D Men in giveaways with 52, with 14 takeaways

Erik Karlsson with 709:08 TOI has only has 38 giveaways , with 18 takeaways

So I guess you could make a good argument that Brent Burns is a defensive liability, and Erik Karlsson is much better defensively if you look at Blocked shots (76 for EK & only 45 for BB) as well as the above stats.



I'd also suspect, if you were the GM of the leafs, you would also refuse Brent Burns if offered for free as well.
sensarmy_11
Ottawa Senators
Location: If Ottawa traded ryan for clarkson sens would need to add a pick - Prock, NS
Joined: 06.01.2009

Dec 7 @ 2:07 PM ET
i think it was 4

that is pretty poopty

- Tumbleweed


prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Dec 7 @ 2:09 PM ET
There are few D Men in the league that log as much TOI than EK65 does. Of course he will be on the ice when goals are scored, for or against.

In fact there are only 4 D men (as of today) that have logged over 700 minutes (TOI) so far this season, Erik Karlsson being one of them.

Brent Burns with only 601:07 TOI leads NHL D Men in giveaways with 52, with 14 takeaways

Erik Karlsson with 709:08 TOI has only has 38 giveaways , with 18 takeaways

So I guess you could make a good argument that Brent Burns is a defensive liability, and Erik Karlsson is much better defensively if you look at Blocked shots (76 for EK & only 45 for BB) as well as the above stats.



I'd also suspect, if you were the GM of the leafs, you would also refuse Brent Burns if offered for free as well.

- D0PPELGANGER


Blah blah blah. Full of excuses. He gets scored on like a sieve. Always has, always will.
daeth
Nashville Predators
Location: shambles, ON
Joined: 09.15.2005

Dec 7 @ 2:15 PM ET
Burns actually is pretty average defensively.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Dec 7 @ 2:25 PM ET
Burns actually is pretty average defensively.
- daeth



At one point in time, I thought he was pretty good. He's okay, not great.

Better than Karlsson certainly.
Tumbleweed
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Xizord : I am Eklund
Joined: 03.14.2014

Dec 7 @ 2:41 PM ET

- sensarmy_11


Your overuse of the same joke has caused me to flip flop.

Being on the ice for 4 ES goals against in the same game is the sign of a top defensive player.
senstroll
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Dec 7 @ 2:41 PM ET
At one point in time, I thought he was pretty good. He's okay, not great.

Better than Karlsson certainly.

- prock



Burns is really good....that is...I mean if you are into almost a point a game D who get tons of shots and help you win games
daeth
Nashville Predators
Location: shambles, ON
Joined: 09.15.2005

Dec 7 @ 2:45 PM ET
Burns is really good....that is...I mean if you are into almost a point a game D who get tons of shots and help you win games
- senstroll

i personally hate players that drive possession
senstroll
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Dec 7 @ 2:49 PM ET
senstroll
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Dec 7 @ 2:51 PM ET
This is amazing. Laine negative in everything but goals

prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Dec 7 @ 2:52 PM ET
Burns is really good....that is...I mean if you are into almost a point a game D who get tons of shots and help you win games
- senstroll



I meant defensively.
senstroll
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Dec 7 @ 2:58 PM ET
I meant defensively.
- prock


gauging how good a player is defensivley is really hard. I mean actually understanding whats happening with the thousands of events in a game is difficult..and what equates to a good defensive player is not my area of expertise.

I am glad you are good at it
Tumbleweed
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Xizord : I am Eklund
Joined: 03.14.2014

Dec 7 @ 3:01 PM ET
gauging how good a player is defensivley is really hard. I mean actually understanding whats happening with the thousands of events in a game is difficult..and what equates to a good defensive player is not my area of expertise.

I am glad you are good at it

- senstroll


I think karlsson is pretty good. Can’t argue with his offensive numbers.

But he is consistently on the ice for a lot of goals against.

Would I take him on the leafs. Yes.

But I don’t think he’s one of the best of all time as spatso spews on here.
daeth
Nashville Predators
Location: shambles, ON
Joined: 09.15.2005

Dec 7 @ 3:03 PM ET
This is amazing. Laine negative in everything but goals


- senstroll

You look at his goals and not really any of them have been flukes, they're nearly all filthy snipes or good moves. Then you look at the statistics and there's nothing there to suggest he can possibly keep scoring at this rate. It's interesting.

Maybe he's just found some extra magic that he didn't have in the Finnish league or internationally, who knows. He didn't do this in Finland though. Scoring on 22% of shots on net and over 11% of his shot attempts. Nobody scores over 30 goals in a season with stats like that. Elite scorers typically fall in the 6-9% range in terms of shot attempts. Impressive as hell either way even if he can't maintain this level of scoring.
daeth
Nashville Predators
Location: shambles, ON
Joined: 09.15.2005

Dec 7 @ 3:08 PM ET
gauging how good a player is defensivley is really hard. I mean actually understanding whats happening with the thousands of events in a game is difficult..and what equates to a good defensive player is not my area of expertise.

I am glad you are good at it

- senstroll

shot suppression
senstroll
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Dec 7 @ 3:08 PM ET
I think karlsson is pretty good. Can’t argue with his offensive numbers.

But he is consistently on the ice for a lot of goals against.

Would I take him on the leafs. Yes.

But I don’t think he’s one of the best of all time as spatso spews on here.

- Tumbleweed


where can we quickly look this up?
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